My car has the shakes, real BAD! Help!

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Majarvis

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Well, to start off, I'd like to let you know what my problem is. On the Test Course, the Audi R8 and Sauber C9 have the BAD shakes. It is so violent, that I have to have a very firm grip on the DFP, and even then it will snap loose, that's right, on the Test Course, a big frigging oval.
I have tried everthing I can think of to try correcting it. I tried softening the suspension settings: NOTHING.
Tried raising the car: NOTHING
I am truly at a loss as to why it is so bad, to the point where I cannot get a lap out of these cars to find out my top speed.
The R8 and C9 are, of course, fully tuned, meaning anything that is available is purchased and installed.
As a last resort, I tried cranking on the ASM and TCS, but to no avail, it still didn't help.
My suspension settings are as followed (I even tried default settings, and they didn't help the situation):
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Thanks :) I would ultimately like to know how to cure a badly shaking car for future references :)
 

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Um all those settings on their TIGHTEST from what it seems. I suggest the following numbers on that car:

Springs: 15.3/13.5
Ride Height: 60/60
Shock Bound: 5/6
Shock Re-Bound: 6/7
Camber: 2.5/2.0
Toe: -1/1
Stabs: 3/5

In essence, your car is WAY TO TIGHT. Soften it all up and giving your car the recommended toe above will stabilize your car in a straight line and should help corner entry. For more info just read M-Spec's guide stickied on this forum.
 
nttdemented
Um all those settings on their TIGHTEST from what it seems. I suggest the following numbers on that car:

Springs: 15.3/13.5
Ride Height: 60/60
Shock Bound: 5/6
Shock Re-Bound: 6/7
Camber: 2.5/2.0
Toe: -1/1
Stabs: 3/5

In essence, your car is WAY TO TIGHT. Soften it all up and giving your car the recommended toe above will stabilize your car in a straight line and should help corner entry. For more info just read M-Spec's guide stickied on this forum.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your help :) I realize the car was set up as tight as it could be, I was just showing what my settings were, that's all.

Thanks! :)

EDIT: I tried your settings, and it did nothing to help my situation. I can't figure this out, and it's very disappointing as I would like to run them on the Test Course to determind their top speeds :(
Not only that, but I would like to know how to cure a shaking car anyway.
I read M-Spec's post, but I'm still in the dark...
 
I think your settings are not bad: it's clos to what I suggest on my (French language) website for F1-cars and LM-prototypes:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/plmgt/F1_LM.htm

I don't know whether you have GT Prologue. From that version on, powerfull cars shake at high speed (ex. the Mc Laren on Fuji) like they do in real life racing.

There is no solution: GT4 has become closer to reality than GT3.

It's seems to me (I'm even pretty shure) that this topic has been discussed on the GT4 Prologue subforum a while ago. Have a look there. Some members even suggested that it would be good if you could choose in GT4 to put it on or of. Unfortunately, GT4 doesn't let us put it of.

But I repeat, your settings are not bad. 👍
I only would change two things: a little cambre: 1,0 and 1,0 and softer stabilizers :
4/4 or 4/5 or 5/5. But I don't think that will have an effect on the shaking.
 
Don't put any toe, it's a straight no need for toe, it'll just slow you down , the camber has the same effet, get it off.
 
Thanks guys, I seem to have alleviated the problem. I played around with spring rates, and softened it up substantially, it drives very well now :)
 
Toe in on the front wheels will make the car more stable. As said in ///M3's guide that is stickied, travelling at high speeds forces the front wheels (or all wheels in general) to begin pointing outward. Why? Friction is actually trying to tear the wheels away from the car. So, putting some toe IN (POSITIVE! NOT NEGATIVE!) will make the wheels point inward (towards each other) so that when driving at high speeds they will actually become straight.

nttdemented had the right idea by giving some toe, but unfortunately he was giving the wrong numbers. Giving a toe in the front of 1 (instead of -1) will point the wheels inwards (aka the right way for high speeds). You should leave the rear tires alone, as giving them a toe OUT (negative) will make even more drag on the rear tires, as when going high speeds, these wheels also begin to point outwards. So, if your wheels are already pointing outwards, wont that make alot more instability? I think so.

Giving the rear tires toe out WILL increase cornering just a tad, but it's not really worth it. You could also give the rear tires a toe IN to decrease their drag at high speeds just like the front, but this would make handling decrease. So it's best to leave them at 0.

Also, i hope you plan on returning your suspension settings to their normal values, as softer settings will further inhibit your handling ability.
 
Acid X
Toe in on the front wheels will make the car more stable. As said in ///M3's guide that is stickied, travelling at high speeds forces the front wheels (or all wheels in general) to begin pointing outward. Why? Friction is actually trying to tear the wheels away from the car. So, putting some toe IN (POSITIVE! NOT NEGATIVE!) will make the wheels point inward (towards each other) so that when driving at high speeds they will actually become straight.

nttdemented had the right idea by giving some toe, but unfortunately he was giving the wrong numbers. Giving a toe in the front of 1 (instead of -1) will point the wheels inwards (aka the right way for high speeds). You should leave the rear tires alone, as giving them a toe OUT (negative) will make even more drag on the rear tires, as when going high speeds, these wheels also begin to point outwards. So, if your wheels are already pointing outwards, wont that make alot more instability? I think so.

Giving the rear tires toe out WILL increase cornering just a tad, but it's not really worth it. You could also give the rear tires a toe IN to decrease their drag at high speeds just like the front, but this would make handling decrease. So it's best to leave them at 0.

Also, i hope you plan on returning your suspension settings to their normal values, as softer settings will further inhibit your handling ability.
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Great post, going to try it out later :) So a toe of 1, not -1, is beneficial up front?
 
dollarman
Are there any formula one racing cars like in GT3 (eg F094, f090.. Uk version P001 etc.)
Click to expand...
And this has to do with my thread because... ?
Yes, there is one, a 2004 model. If you want to know more, search, but don't post about that in this thread, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 
If your getting the shakes its most likely comming from the LSD adjusting the accel will help with the woble exiting corners.

I would definatly adjust the suspention though as it looks off, I cant make a good sugestion for the settings as I havnt tuned that car yet, BUT the LSD adjustments WILL help any car with those symptoms
 
I have tried everthing I can think of to try correcting it. I tried softening the suspension settings: NOTHING.
[/IMG]
Thanks :) I would ultimately like to know how to cure a badly shaking car for future references :)[/QUOTE]


I seem to remember seeing somting about the bound shound be 2 to 4 times les than the rebound. try it out 4 bound 8 rebound all my cars r set like this none of them shake
 
I disagree a bit on toe. If you want to increase your straight-line stability, try pointing the front out, the rear tires in. Like this:
\ /
| |
| |
/ \

Can't hurt to try, give it a shot. My reasoning is like this. You are losing control while on Test Course, right? When you make that soft turn to the left, the car is turning more than you want to. (sorry if I'm misunderstanding you problem.) So, when you turn left, more weight shifts to the right-hand side of the car. Imagine if ONLY the two right-hand tires were touching the ground. The car would naturally veer to the right. This works against your left-hand turn, which will make it easier to make gradual turns at high speed.

If you only set it to 1 in front, -1 in back, that won't been enough to significantly lower top speed.
 
Thank you all once again for your help :)

The problem I was experiencing was that the car was shaking so violently, that it would snap itself loose during the corners, or corner exits, not so much a problem of oversteer. So what I did was take the advice of others, and soften the suspension up considerably, and that cured the problem. Also, I set front toe to 1 to try and gain some straight line stability, which I did very nicely :)
 
Awaji Islander
I disagree a bit on toe. If you want to increase your straight-line stability, try pointing the front out, the rear tires in. Like this:
\ /
| |
| |
/ \

Can't hurt to try, give it a shot. My reasoning is like this. You are losing control while on Test Course, right? When you make that soft turn to the left, the car is turning more than you want to. (sorry if I'm misunderstanding you problem.) So, when you turn left, more weight shifts to the right-hand side of the car. Imagine if ONLY the two right-hand tires were touching the ground. The car would naturally veer to the right. This works against your left-hand turn, which will make it easier to make gradual turns at high speed.

If you only set it to 1 in front, -1 in back, that won't been enough to significantly lower top speed.
Click to expand...

NEGATIVE. Having toe out will make turning even worse than it already is. Why? No matter which way you enter the turn, you'll have one wheel pointing the opposite way of which you want to turn, thus, you'll create massive friction, and your turning ability will be hampered.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1491459&postcount=4

A direct link to ///M-Spec's TOE (and camber) explanation. Theres another post directly below it made by Duke explaining the effects of toe on handling. ///M-Spec's article covers high speed stability.

Also, setting a value of 1 in front, -1 in back is giving toe IN in the front, and toe OUT in the back. You basically just told him the setup that i was conveying to him.. I think you had your numbers mixed up, thinking positive was out and negative was in.

NOTE: Duke's post can be found in the stickied thread in the forum. He's the third or forth post down.
 
Thank you once again Acid X! I set positive toe in at the front on the R8 and it handles a lot better on the Test Course now :)
 
I see that there are often confusion about toe. In my advice to give -1 at the front, I had forgotten that it was for the Test - track. OK no need for -1.

But I'm very shure that on other tracks, especially on city tracks with tight corners, -1 or -1,5 makes the car turn better.

Look at Fume setups on www.gtvault.com
Everybody is positive about his setups. He never puts +xx values at the front.
 
many of you obviously did not read closely at this guys post - he is getting the shakes on the DFP - i experienced the same problem with the DFP where i would exceed speeds of 220 mph the DFP would shake back and forth violently.... i ended up just using the DS2 for testing the car...
 
just hold the wheel tighter and it should stop shaking. if nothing else you could always lower the feedback to mild and see if that helps.
 
Nevertheless, since GT2, there are discussions on how GT has implemented toe. The problem is that GT doesn't say whether toe-in corresponds to positive or negative GT-values.

I read this in the wellknow "Gasman tuning guide" (Numbers forum): "Real life values of toe are slightly different and are in fact almost reverse of what I have stated here". In other words real-world positive toe-in corresponds to negative GT-values. (in GT2 and GT3)

For Gasman the "/ \ "alignment is positive toe, but corresponds to a negative GT-value. On other websites, I read the sam

What I don't know is whether this is still like that in GT4 (we have to wait 2 more days in Europe). Has Polyphony corrected the error (if there really is an error in GT2 and GT3).

In any case, I'll do some tests this evening to find out whether Gasman is right.
 
Pontiac Le Mans
As for the technical "real-world" explication, I completely agree with ACID-X. I would be stupid if didn't: what he says is available on every tuning website.

Nevertheless, since GT2, there are discussions on how GT has implemented toe. The problem is that GT doesn't say whether toe-in corresponds to positive or negative GT-values.

I read this in the wellknow "Gasman tuning guide" (Numbers forum): "Real life values of toe are slightly different and are in fact almost reverse of what I have stated here". In other words real-world positive toe-in corresponds to negative GT-values. (in GT2 and GT3)

For Gasman the "/ \ "alignment is positive toe, but corresponds to a negative GT-value. On other websites, I read the sam

What I don't know is whether this is still like that in GT4 (we have to wait 2 more days in Europe). Has Polyphony corrected the error (if there really is an error in GT2 and GT3).

In any case, I'll do some tests this evening to find out whether Gasman is right.
Click to expand...

Its not necessarily an error, while it is common convention to quote toe values as stated above, some manufacturers can reverse this.

When I worked for Renault, they would always quote toe angle as completely the reverse (the same as GT), caused me major headaches at first.

It was a major pain when Renault bought Nissan, who list toe angles in the standard convention
 
Pontiac Le Mans
As for the technical "real-world" explication, I completely agree with ACID-X. I would be stupid if didn't: what he says is available on every tuning website.

Nevertheless, since GT2, there are discussions on how GT has implemented toe. The problem is that GT doesn't say whether toe-in corresponds to positive or negative GT-values.

I read this in the wellknow "Gasman tuning guide" (Numbers forum): "Real life values of toe are slightly different and are in fact almost reverse of what I have stated here". In other words real-world positive toe-in corresponds to negative GT-values. (in GT2 and GT3)

For Gasman the "/ \ "alignment is positive toe, but corresponds to a negative GT-value. On other websites, I read the sam

What I don't know is whether this is still like that in GT4 (we have to wait 2 more days in Europe). Has Polyphony corrected the error (if there really is an error in GT2 and GT3).

In any case, I'll do some tests this evening to find out whether Gasman is right.
Click to expand...


Ok its Positive TOE OUT, that we are implimenting with the + and Negative TOE OUT with the -

BUT KEEP IN MIND ANY POSITIVE TOE OUT RESULTS IN NEGATIVE TOE IN

so what your saying is accurate, but they are NOT refering to Toe IN, they are refering to TOE out, so Positive DOES aply.

\ / = Positive Toe out & Negative Toe in (for the front of the car front on top)

These are bolth reflections of the front wheels one with Positive toe one with negative.


/ \ = Negative Toe Out & Positive Toe in (for the front of the car front on top)


Toe always refers to the increase/decrease of distance apart of the outer points of the wheels in relation to the fixed centerpoint of the wheels. The outer point being the point of the wheel closest to the end of the car (front or the back) it dont matter


This is Positive toe out front and back

\ /

/ \

This is negative Toe out front and back

/ \

\ /


The OTHER detail that is confusing is front and rear, but its simple (it apears to be oposits, but is not) positive toe out in the front looks like this \ / and positive toe out in the rear looks like this / \ BUT if you rotate the car 180% the rear becomes \ / and the front becomes / \ . So they are bolth doing the same thing but on oposite sides of the center point of the vehicle
 
I did some tests this evening WITH GT3, DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE SAME APPLIES TO GT4

Took a maxed-out Toyota Yaris (FF-car which understeers like all FF-cars) and tested it on Côte d'Azur, where turning is very important. Whatever the theoretical facts are and to what negative or positive GT-values may correspond. The result of my test is that the car is faster with a -1,0 or -1,5 value in the front then with a +1,0 value.

If I insist on this topic, it is because I was very surprised. This is the first place where I find the advice to put + GT-values in the front of a car. Nearly all GT-setup guides I consulted until now gave the advice to put - GT values in the front.

On the theoretical side, I seem to have been wrong. The advance racing website quoted by Speedy Gonzales advices to put toe-out in the front of a racecar. So negative GT-values may correspond to toe-out.

Whatever is right, my experience is that a negative value in the front is faster than a positive value. (Which was also Gasman's conclusion, even if his theoretical explanation doesn't correspond to what was on the advandedracing website).

Did someone else do some testing for this
 
Pontiac Le Mans
I did some tests this evening.

Took a maxed-out Toyota Yaris (FF-car which understeers like all FF-cars) and tested it on Côte d'Azur, where turning is very important. Whatever the theoretical facts are and to what negative or positive GT-values may correspond. The result of my test is that the car is faster with a -1,0 or -1,5 value in the front then with a +1,0 value.

If I insist on this topic, it is because I was very surprised. This is the first place where I find the advice to put + GT-values in the front of a car. Nearly all GT-setup guides I consulted until now gave the advice to put - GT values in the front.

On the theoretical side, I seem to have been wrong. The technical website quoted by ... advices to put toe-out in the front of a racecar. So negative GT-values may correspond to toe-out.

Whatever is right, my experience is that a negative value in the front is faster than a positive value. (Which was also Gasman's conclusion, even if his theoretical explanation doesn't correspond to what was on the ... website).

Did someone else do some testing for this
Click to expand...

I dont advise toe up front at all really, picture your wheels driving pushing either away from eachother or twords eachother (It dont take rocket science to see how thats BAD either way) Its OK in SOME cars for rear toe + because if the car understeers you can get her to turn more. Toe up front is usless really, any track with a decent straight I wouldnt sugest it AT ALL, but for the track thats all curves NO Straights you MAY POSIBLY help with the turns, but will loose any gains in a straight & cause your tires to wear faster, so the trade off is questionable even if its helping in the turns. ON TOP OF THAT if there are any benifits in the turns it would be slight (unless you go FULL TILT, & that will do nothing BUT HURT) and the slight benifit would be almost imposible to even notice, and most people wouldnt even know what to look for, or know if its helping or hurting in the turns anyways.
 
ProtegeLX
I dont advise toe up front at all really, picture your wheels driving pushing either away from eachother or twords eachother (It dont take rocket science to see how thats BAD either way) Its OK in SOME cars for rear toe + because if the car understeers you can get her to turn more. Toe up front is usless really, any track with a decent straight I wouldnt sugest it AT ALL, but for the track thats all curves NO Straights you MAY POSIBLY help with the turns, but will loose any gains in a straight & cause your tires to wear faster, so the trade off is questionable even if its helping in the turns. ON TOP OF THAT if there are any benifits in the turns it would be slight (unless you go FULL TILT, & that will do nothing BUT HURT) and the slight benifit would be almost imposible to even notice, and most people wouldnt even know what to look for, or know if its helping or hurting in the turns anyways.
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I do not believe u are correct LX. While it is still up in the air what GT4 intends is negative and positive numbers respectively relating to toe, I have only found increased handling with toe out in the front, though it is a small amount..aka i use negative toe for my front tires, and I do not touch the back. In the analyzer I have found increaes of 1-3 mph in long 3rd gear swoopers, namely turn 7 @ midfield(? its a complete 180 after the tunnel)The tires seem to hold at slightly higher speeds in those kinds of turns. The results seem so insignificant though that I do not think chaning these numbers has much of an effect except on extreme changes, like - or + 4 on the toe.
 
SpeedyGonzalez
I do not believe u are correct LX. While it is still up in the air what GT4 intends is negative and positive numbers respectively relating to toe, I have only found increased handling with toe out in the front, though it is a small amount..aka i use negative toe for my front tires, and I do not touch the back. In the analyzer I have found increaes of 1-3 mph in long 3rd gear swoopers, namely turn 7 @ midfield(? its a complete 180 after the tunnel)The tires seem to hold at slightly higher speeds in those kinds of turns. The results seem so insignificant though that I do not think chaning these numbers has much of an effect except on extreme changes, like - or + 4 on the toe.
Click to expand...


Agreed GT4's perameters are not fully defined, and life would be easyer with a pic moving the part, but either way + or - toe up front WILL slow you down NOT SPEED YOU UP, NO MATTER WHAT( in A straight line run)! Physics will tell us this (and owning a vehicle too, unaligned tires wear bad) The wheels are either pushing closer together or further apart, either way its not helping you move forwards AT ALL! SO a INCREASE IN SPEED DUE TO THAT MOD IS IMPOSIBLE REGUARDLESS OF GT4's PERAMETERS!
 
that all knowning Gasman or whatever claimed that the more you stiffen up the front sway bar, the less understeer you have

wtf
 
I just hope that for any future version of the game, the adjustments are shown literaly, with a general drawing ilustrating the change. orat least give us something loke this

Camber
+ \ -
 

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