My father is looking for a new car. (suggestions?)

[von_wolf]

The 335i has traction control...

most new cars do have traction control:tup:

 

[TrievelA7X]

You called Hyundais crap boxes & then believe American cars are the best things on the market?

If Paskowitz knows better, he'll steer clear of that advice. American cars are getting better, but Hyundai's current line up is absolutely top notch. The Genesis models & the Accent aren't getting so much news for nothing.

As for American cars, sales say otherwise. Last month, all the cars within Paskowitz's range that had the highest sales were BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, & Acura. And such was Feb. & Jan.'s sales.

I didn't call Hyundais crap boxes. In another thread I called a specific 99 and most older Hyundais crap boxes, yes. But not here. And how could you possibly speak of the reliability of a brand new car? They look good. Everything seems good. Doesn't mean it IS good. We'll know in a couple years.
And yes, I do believe the brand new American cars are great - they have to be, or they're doomed. Hyundai is getting bigger, bigger means more numbers. More numbers means hurried deadlines. hurried deadlines means lower quality. Period.

most new cars do have traction control:tup:

All cars have traction control. It's called the gas pedal. All TCS does it control the power applied for you. So basically, if you can't drive, TCS is great, otherwise, it's useless, and a potential fun killer.

 

[McLaren]

I didn't call Hyundais crap boxes. In another thread I called a specific 99 and most older Hyundais crap boxes, yes. But not here.

Every company that builds a reputation for it ends up making crap boxes shortly afterwards. So I'd steer clear of anything Toyota or Hyundai right about now.

You referred to them as such, along with Toyota.

And how could you possibly speak of the reliability of a brand new car? They look good. Everything seems good. Doesn't mean it IS good. We'll know in a couple years.

No one has mentioned reliability but you.

And yes, I do believe the brand new American cars are great - they have to be, or they're doomed.

That's different than what you just said. You said American cars make up the best things on the market, yet for 2010, sales are still saying otherwise. The 3 Series, the E-Class, & Audi's entry class are too strong to believe that American companies are the manufacturers "that make the best ones".

Hyundai is getting bigger, bigger means more numbers. More numbers means hurried deadlines. hurried deadlines means lower quality. Period.

Sorry, but that's not true. Hyundai's Genesis has been out over a year now & Genesis Coupe demand never took a hit on its quality. American manufacturers, however, still are with lower numbers & resorting to foreign models.

 

[TrievelA7X]

You referred to them as such, along with Toyota.

I did not refer to them as crap boxes.

Every company that builds a reputation for it ends up making crap boxes shortly afterwards.

This in no way insinuates, implies, or says that any specific companies cars are "crap boxes". I did say I'd steer clear of them both right now, because I expect them to either be currently producing crap boxes, or they soon will be. Very different from the statement you decided it was meant to be.

No one has mentioned reliability but you.

Wouldn't that be one of the key factors in whether or not a car is a "crap box"?

That's different than what you just said. You said American cars make up the best things on the market

It's the car companies on the bottom that make the best ones, and right now, that means any brand new American car.

That's not saying American cars are the best new cars on the market, it's saying they probably are, in terms of reliability, and quality.

yet for 2010, sales are still saying otherwise. The 3 Series, the E-Class, & Audi's entry class are too strong to believe that American companies are the manufacturers "that make the best ones".

Sales? In the case of sales, that must mean GM is second best, WAAAYYY higher than the specific manufactures you mention here, correct?
"sales are saying otherwise"... Means you believe sales dictate "best cars" which must mean then, by default, that American cars have been the best for decades, and still have the second and third best manufactures, right?
And FYI, EVERY review I have ever read on the cheapened down BMW's, Audi's, and Mercedes has complaints left and right, specifically about quality, and they're usually down on power and performance to the competition as well. The main advantage they have, is being AWD and or RWD, and they're looking into taking that away from some of them (see BMW FWD) and it simply does not matter to 99.99% of the car buying public.

Sorry, but that's not true. Hyundai's Genesis has been out over a year now & Genesis Coupe demand never took a hit on its quality. American manufacturers, however, still are with lower numbers & resorting to foreign models.

How would you know that in 1 year? 12,000 miles? what, 37 guys drove 40,000 miles on them? You can't tell any kind of reliabilty in one year. A car shouldn't break in the first 5 years, other than "routine wear and tear" parts.
Or are you one of those that believe just because magazine loved an initial test drives means a car is golden forever?
Chevy Malibu was MT's "car of the year" in 1998 - Are 1998 Chevy Malibu's great cars? I can tell you flat out just because it's a Chevy, GM makes a better version of it under a different name.

 

[McLaren]

I did not refer to them as crap boxes.
This in no way insinuates, implies, or says that any specific companies cars are "crap boxes". I did say I'd steer clear of them both right now, because I expect them to either be currently producing crap boxes, or they soon will be. Very different from the statement you decided it was meant to be.

Then you have horrible grammar structure, because you referred both companies in present tense.
"Every company that builds a reputation for it ends up making crap boxes shortly afterwards. So I'd steer clear of anything Toyota or Hyundai right about now."
Why did you tell Paskowitz to steer clear of Toyota & Hyundai right now if you weren't referring to them as people who are now making crap boxes?

Wouldn't that be one of the key factors in whether or not a car is a "crap box"?

Note that you said, one of.

That's not saying American cars are the best new cars on the market, it's saying they probably are, in terms of reliability, and quality.

You said the cars at the bottom are the best cars on the market. You said that was any brand new American car. Thus, you have said, American cars are on the bottom of the market, & due so, they are the best.

Sales? In the case of sales, that must mean GM is second best, WAAAYYY higher than the specific manufactures you mention here, correct?
"sales are saying otherwise"... Means you believe sales dictate "best cars" which must mean then, by default, that American cars have been the best for decades, and still have the second and third best manufactures, right?

Wrong. American cars have had poor quality cars for years & their sales next to the Germans when competing shows. The only area American cars have high sales are in the lower markets.

And FYI, EVERY review I have ever read on the cheapened down BMW's, Audi's, and Mercedes has complaints left and right, specifically about quality, and they're usually down on power and performance to the competition as well. The main advantage they have, is being AWD and or RWD, and they're looking into taking that away from some of them (see BMW FWD) and it simply does not matter to 99.99% of the car buying public.

You're obviously reading bad reviews, then.

Thankfully, I don't believe it. As a BMW owner for several years now & a family experience of 20, no review is going to tell me they have awful quality. So, I'm not going to debate that any further.

How would you know that in 1 year? 12,000 miles? what, 37 guys drove 40,000 miles on them? You can't tell any kind of reliabilty in one year. A car shouldn't break in the first 5 years, other than "routine wear and tear" parts.
Or are you one of those that believe just because magazine loved an initial test drives means a car is golden forever?

This is hilarious. You criticized me for being able to "know" the reliability of the Genesis in 1 year, yet you sit here and act like you do.

Reliability isn't the sole definition of a "crap box". Build, ride, interior, & maintenance quality play roles, too & as it stands, Hyundai is near the top of the pack; Americans aren't. They're relying on Opels & UK Fords to save them, something they should have done long ago.