my trials and tribulations (newcomer help)

[matic]

This is to help people who are just starting to drift figure out there groove. I will tell you how I got to the point where I can drift almost anything almost anywhere.

Types of cars:
I like FR cars but I used to drive AWD cars when I would drift. I now don't like AWED cars because I can't turn while im sliding I tend to slide in a straighter line with AWD cars whereas with fr cars I can curve my drift more. As for ff cars I never really liked them because personally I couldn't keep my speed up. High horsepower and trying to control a car don't mix unless you know what your doing, but to little horsepower and long swaying drifts will be hard to hold. I personally like a car around 400-500 horsepower. If you like AWED cars I feel more horsepower will help you. and I don't like FF so I don't know. the key is to find a car in the game that you feel comfortable with already and then try using it to drift.

Buying parts:
When buying parts for this car if you are underfunded then I suggest putting most of you money into drive train and suspension because you want your car to be stable and I like to be able to shift quickly if needed. If you have a fully customizable tranny then you can set your gears up for the power you have. you also don't need the best LSD a 1.5 or 2 way will do the trick. if you need settings you can always go to the settings depot but I like do trial and error with my cars until they are just what I like. Remember every driver is different so someone else’s settings may work for them but may not work for you.

Tires:
I put this separate because there is a lot of bull s#!t comments about tires. Weather you are armature, intermediate, or professional it does not matter what tires you use. Some people say sims are the only tires allowed or your not a true drifter but sims are extremely hard to control unless you know what your doing. so here’s the breakdown when you go to change parts there is a t and a number next to the name of each tire, except for normal, the t is traction and the number is the amount, higher number more traction. Sims are the only way to go if you are competing or want to post a video because they create the most smoke to how fast they spin. but you can still drift with racing tires.

Conclusion:
I have owned gt3 since before it was first released. I got the game with my ps2 when ps2's first came out and it was the complimentary game. Since I have owned it I have tried drifting in the game and thought I was good but I suck compared to some of the guys on here. The thing is I don't care how good I am cu im having fun. Your gonna crash and spin out and all that but that’s part of learning, don't get frustrated and if you do turn of the game and go relax. I find the more frustrated I get the worse I do. Finally practice, practice, practice, practice, practice as much as you can and remember its just a game.

 

[Swift]

Tires:
I put this separate because there is a lot of bull s#!t comments about tires. Weather you are armature, intermediate, or professional it does not matter what tires you use. Some people say sims are the only tires allowed or your not a true drifter but sims are extremely hard to control unless you know what your doing. so here’s the breakdown when you go to change parts there is a t and a number next to the name of each tire, except for normal, the t is traction and the number is the amount, higher number more traction. Sims are the only way to go if you are competing or want to post a video because they create the most smoke to how fast they spin. but you can still drift with racing tires. Another thing you might want to try is supersoft tires in the front and sports or sims in the rear, that way there is grip where you need it and loss of traction where you want it

Conclusion:
I have owned gt3 since before it was first released. I got the game with my ps2 when ps2's first came out and it was the complimentary game. Since I have owned it I have tried drifting in the game and thought I was good but I suck compared to some of the guys on here. The thing is I don't care how good I am cu im having fun. Your gonna crash and spin out and all that but that’s part of learning, don't get frustrated and if you do turn of the game and go relax. I find the more frustrated I get the worse I do. Finally practice, practice, practice, practice, practice as much as you can and remember its just a game.

Well, you were doing great until you got to the tires section. Mixing tires is bad, period. Especially if you're talking to people that are just learning. Your point about the types of tires you use is totally valid, cause it doesn't matter. But sims are the best to learn on.

Also, GT3 was released by itself then release with the PS2 bundle and GT3 was released good deal later then the launch of the PS2.

But like I said, for the most part it wasn't bad adivise.

 

[matic]

Thanks. I'm not trying to ba an a-hole but i wrote this as an opinion not fact and i personally think sims are much easier to spin out on. they are eisier to drift with but until i got my balance points down i would be all over. Sorry if i was a little lost on the realese of gt3, i just remember gettin my ps2 with gt3 and then all of my freinds went and bought the game, it was a long time ago too.

 

[matic]

Oh i took out the mixing tires too but it always worked for me so i wouldn't mind if you explained why its a bad idea.

 

[Swift]

This is a much better explaination then I could give myself:

I think it's wrong to think of it as, which tire is better...... The tire merely needs to be matched up with the HP/weight of the vehicle.....

If you have a stock to 350hp (up to 400hp on cars with less torque/heavy), use sims...

400hp to 550hp (up to 650hp on cars with less torque/heavy) use normals or sports, and so on.....

I think it is best to learn how to drift, on a low power (stock or close to it) vehicle on sims... This forces you to learn good technique, and use weight transfer, instead of relying on power to initiate drifts..... This also teaches you the base handling characteristics of your vehicle, so you have a good idea what needs to be tuned......

Furthermore, I have noticed that most of you don't realise, that when you install sims, it changes the physics of the game slightly, so the control is more realistic..... This has nothing to do with the traction of said tire... It just means the control is altered slightly to feel more realistic..... As long as you don't use too much HP, sims have a very realistic feel.....

Mixing tires creates an unbalanced traction coeficient, from the front and back..... This can make for a choppy drift, and will ultimately slow the progress of an aspiring drifter..... Balance is the key to drift/grip, as I'm sure some of you know..... Keeping balance in the vehicle, is extremely important IMO, and should be given more attention, than what tires are the best.....

That is post 121 on the Who cares about Sim tires Thread. You should check that thread out. It's got some good points in there that may help your understanding.

 

[matic]

i'll do that thanks

 

[Gen.]

And once you get used to the level of hp you are currently on, Try lowering the hp gradually..
The less hp you have, the more control you will eventually have. Leave it at a high hp level, and the car is pretty much controlling itself through corners..

 

[Delphic Reason]

Thanks. I'm not trying to ba an a-hole but i wrote this as an opinion not fact and i personally think sims are much easier to spin out on. they are eisier to drift with but until i got my balance points down i would be all over. Sorry if i was a little lost on the realese of gt3, i just remember gettin my ps2 with gt3 and then all of my freinds went and bought the game, it was a long time ago too.

Sims are for low power cars.... That is what they are for.... When the car is set up correctly, and the HP does not excede the balance of the vehicle, they are quite easy to control.... Anywhere from stock to 275hp is perfect for a car on sims (for most medium to light weight vehicles)... Anymore and the car becomes hard to control.... This is no different than any tire choice... They all have their HP range that they are optimally effective within....

As Swift stated, Mixing tires is undesirable..... It creates an unbalanced traction coeficient which makes for an unbalanced vehicle.... A car can be made to drift well without mixing tires.... Tuning and technique is the key to unlocking a cars full potential....

 

[R_Riders]

Oh i took out the mixing tires too but it always worked for me so i wouldn't mind if you explained why its a bad idea.

Hey and welcome to GTP. The name's R_riders, better known simply as Rossriders. I guess you could go by that thread...and also what Silvia drifter said...-sigh-...I wonder if then what I’m going to say is of any use...well...only one way to find out...sorry if I sound like a repeating echo...

Yes, Silvia drifter is right about how Sims are good for low power cars, I think it’s in theory also possible to drift cars of higher power as well, I’ve been getting slolwy better and better at drifting higer power cars such as the Grand Sport and Z06 Corvette (460 and 440 bhp respectively, and that’s modifed bhp, standard is 330 and 385 standard), it really does take proper tuning in addtion to driving techique to unlock vehicle potental. Pratice is the biggest key, and pratice in a good direction. For me, I praticed the most on Free run on a given track I’m comfortable drifting with that requires skill, it’s shifted from track to track, first it was Speical Stage Route 5, then Rome Circut, next was Laguna Seca, and Apricott Hill, now it’s Trial Mountain. You need to go with car settings YOU find the most comfortable with sending your car sideways into a given turn in addtion to your technique. As Ryouske said from Stage 4, everyone’s skill starts somewhere and even if some may argue, everyone’s is unique to some degree.

For me, my speciality is FR, Non-turbo cars, and the cars in my opnion that best seam to be for that are cars such as the Trueno ‘Hachi-Roku’, like the one Fujiwara Takumi from Initial D uses, and MX-5, in addtion to American muscle cars such as the Corvette Z06 and Ford Mustang SVT Cobra R. I work with high power around 200-500 depending on the car in question. If it’s a S13 Silvia 2000k, it’ll be around 280, for an 86, 200-245. A Corvette like the Z06...around 430-500. I use sims on all of them.

I could arugue with Silvia dirfter about using other tires for the higehr power cars, but then again, it takes a while I suppose or it simply depends on the car in question and what you’re trying to do. I’m workin on a 2000K Silvia S13, I haven’t made this machine quite ‘mine’ as far as control is concerned (and damn that sounds stupid depsite some facts to just what I mean...) or maybe that’s just me being over critical about my ability to drift a car despite managing a 1:45:520 on Apricott Hill with it, then again i don’t know if that’s fast or not for drifting around it...for all I know...someone could have managed a -censored- 1:20:981 or something like that...with ‘relative ease’ (there’s my self bashing self kicking in...sorry...I’ll just stop it there) or something...bah...let me just staite my point, I could disagree about switching to differnt tires for cars as their power increases, but I suppose one just needs to try and get used to a certain power level in time, even if whatever power that specefic car may seam ridiclous or crazy.

That’s how I figure it anyway...I dunno if mentioning those settings for my S13 are of any relevance but...

Power: 289bhp...

Spring rate: 14.0, 14.0
Ride height: 89, 89
Shock bound: 5, 5
Shock rebound: 5, 5
Chamber angle: 2.0, 1.0
Toe angle: 0.0 , -1.5
Stabilizers: level 3, level 3
Brake balance: 24, 14
LSD Initial Torque: 0, 10
LSD Accel: 0, 10
LSD Decell: 0, 60
Transmission Gear ratios
1 3.127
2 2.198
3 1.646
4 1.229
51.005
6 0.864

Final: 4.123

ASM, TCS: OFF

Can’t figure what else to say because my thought train went suddenly empty...hope I was of some relevance...till later...

 

[Swift]

RRiders. That's pretty good. Two things I would change though.

1. Who cares about lap times for exhibition drifting! IF you're going for angle and smoothness, then you can just throw the lap times out the window cause you're going slow! But that's a good thing for Exhibition Drifitng.

2. You've got a bit too much power on that S13. I'd say take it back to around 220-230. Also, set you LSD around 40 for all. It'll give you better throttle control during drifting. Lastly, get those stabilizers to 1/1. All the stiffer ones are doing is helping your rear tires stick to the road.

Other then that, good advise.

 

[matic]

i drift with a lot of cars that r fr including grandsport vette, cobra r, mugen s2g (my fav), motorsport elise, ae86, and all of the silvias. my point is if you practice enough sims only help you on high hp cars. I think its much eisier to hold long drifts with a 300zx fully moded on sims than on rt's. it does however take more skill on my part to do the hairpins sice there is so much power.

 

[matic]

i also suggest throwing other peoples settings out the window because when i switched some of my settings to the ones givin i was all over the place and i couldn't control my car. trial and error until you find your cars settings that fit you best. you think every champ car or scca car is set up exactly the same?

 

[Delphic Reason]

i drift with a lot of cars that r fr including grandsport vette, cobra r, mugen s2g (my fav), motorsport elise, ae86, and all of the silvias. my point is if you practice enough sims only help you on high hp cars. I think its much eisier to hold long drifts with a 300zx fully moded on sims than on rt's. it does however take more skill on my part to do the hairpins sice there is so much power.

Each car has a perfect balance, which you have to find and not upset.... The tire is directly related to that balance.... Each tire has a HP range in which it opperates optimally, depending on the size and weight of the vehicle.... For example a light car like the S13 should be anywhere from stock to 275HP if on sims, 375HP to 500HP on normals or sports, and so on.... Now, a car with poor torque in the low end like the Rotary powered cars (FC, FD) can benifit from a bit more HP to help keep the wheels spinnin'... Say anywhere from stock to 400HP on sims, 500HP to 650HP on normals or sports, and so on.... If you excede the balance of the vehicle you will make it harder to control, at which time you will have to make weird changes to your settings (which you have done) to counter such effects....

You have made some pretty basic errors with your settings... Let me explain...

Ride height: 89, 89
Shock bound: 5, 5
Shock rebound: 5, 5

You have lowered the car way too much which can cause the car to bottom out... To add to this, you have lowered the bound and rebound settings which is the opposite of what you want to do, especially when the car is lowered so far... Do you think it's a good idea IRL to throw on some extreme lowering springs and then install softer than stock shocks?.... No, your shocks would be worn out in no time, and your car would be bouncing all over the place, as well as bottoming out....

Chamber angle: 2.0, 1.0

I'm assuming you mean "camber"... Anyway, I'm not sure why you lowered the front camber (from stock), being as more angle would give you better control at higher angles, as long as you are countersteering properly.... There is definitely no reason to lower the camber from stock....

Stabilizers: level 3, level 3

Those stabilizers are too high for the vehicle in question.... Some cars need a bit of stabilizing to help calm the body roll (i.e. FC, R32 GTSt, etc...) however, this vehicle does not require such attention... a 1, 1 setting or even 2,2 setting is more than adequate....

Brake balance: 24, 14

This is a mistake a lot of people make.... A front biased setting just increases understeer, especially when performing fast braking entrances..... a balanced setting, or rear biased setting, is much more benificial to the control of the vehicle....

LSD Initial Torque: 0, 10
LSD Accel: 0, 10
LSD Decell: 0, 60

I'm not sure what you were thinking with these settings.... The car drifts almost perfect with the stock LSD settings (after installing a full LSD of course)... There is no need to lower everything and then raise the decel setting... If anything, it should be the other way around (say 50 initial, 50 accel, and 20 decel).... If you send me a PM I will explain in more detail about the LSD....

let me just staite my point, I could disagree about switching to differnt tires for cars as their power increases, but I suppose one just needs to try and get used to a certain power level in time, even if whatever power that specefic car may seam ridiclous or crazy.

i also suggest throwing other peoples settings out the window because when i switched some of my settings to the ones givin i was all over the place and i couldn't control my car. trial and error until you find your cars settings that fit you best. you think every champ car or scca car is set up exactly the same?

Anyone can get used to any style/setting.... People can get used to counterproductive techniques and settings nearly as easy as productive ones.... The point is, a 500hp S13 on sims is not balanced.... By exceding the balance you have caused all kinds of other little problems that you have tried to fix with your misguided attempt at tuning.... With productive settings and technique you will learn faster and go farther.... There are many different productive ways to tune a car to make it driftable, but there are also counterproductive ways that do nothing but hinder the cars overall performance (just like in real life). It has nothing to do with the cars being set up the same... They are all set up to perform optimally depending on the cars weight/HP/ and the situation they are racing in... Many of the cars have very similar settings, because they are the best settings for the particualar situation and/or vehicle.... Learn to find the balance of any given vehicle and you will be set.... If you need any help with that, or anything technique or tuning related, please don't hesitate to send me a PM... I will do all I can to help...

 

[Gabkicks]

i dont see the point in bashing his setup when everyone likes different setups. and as long as the drift looks good and isnt too slow. the exact setupsetup doesnt really matter. maybe its not counterproductive to his style. Way to be friendly 👍 lol, so attempted help is a crime on this forum? U never know, he might like the setup, and i thought the setup was for a 280hp car. or maybe i misread.

 

[Delphic Reason]

i dont see the point in bashing his setup when everyone likes different setups. and as long as the drift looks good and isnt too slow. the exact setupsetup doesnt really matter. maybe its not counterproductive to his style. Way to be friendly 👍 lol, so attempted help is a crime on this forum? U never know, he might like the setup, and i thought the setup was for a 280hp car. or maybe i misread.

It has nothing to do with style.... Every setting has a purpose, and when not fully understood they can be set incorrectly, or counterproductively.... What I outlined in my above post are the basics of drift/grip settings, and in no way caters to a specific style.... I did not bash his settings, I merely pointed out a few things that he might not know.... A stock car on sims (with no changes to the settings) can drift just fine... However a well tuned suspension and LSD setting will help the car be easier to control, and so on....

I mean, are you arguing that lowering the car too far on top of lowering the bound and rebound is productive to ease of control?.... Or that lowering the camber from stock is helpful to controlling a vehicle in a drift situation?....

Matic, I am not bashing you I am trying to give you information that you may not know, so you can better make tuning decisions.... It's up to you if you listen to it or not... However, I implore you to look further into the things I have talked about... Research is a great way to learn how to set up a car....

The exact setup does not matter, but that does not mean cars can't be set up in a counterproductive manner.... That is all I'm saying....

I'm just trying to help, that's all....

I'm sorry, Matic, if I came off as a bit rude, it was not my intention....

 

[Gabkicks]

i know personally that he can drift well. But i undestand where your coming from after relooking his setup. but still, he feels comfortable w/ that setup. my cars arent setup like that. I used to question his setups alot a while ago, but after drifting w/ him a bit i stopped because he seems to drift well w/ them. Yeah, we've "battled" a few times. He even told me that my cars are setup to drift really well, but he likes the way his set up feels. but i have no caputure card yet, so i have no proof. November is taking forever to get here..... gt4 should have physics a bit more realistic. But there is still no damage modeling so that section of setting up a car will still be ignored as you can tell.

 

[Delphic Reason]

i know personally that he can drift well. But i undestand where your coming from after relooking his setup. but still, he feels comfortable w/ that setup. my cars arent setup like that. I used to question his setups alot a while ago, but after drifting w/ him a bit i stopped because he seems to drift well w/ them. Yeah, we've "battled" a few times. He even told me that my cars are setup to drift really well, but he likes the way his set up feels. but i have no caputure card yet, so i have no proof. November is taking forever to get here..... gt4 should have physics a bit more realistic. But there is still no damage modeling so that section of setting up a car will still be ignored as you can tell.

Well, I'm glad you noticed... As I said before, anyone can get used to anything with enough repetition.... That doesn't make it the easiest way to drift....

Anyway, it's up to him to take the suggestions or not, but I hope he does some research into the matter, so he can learn why I said what I said....

Yeah, I don't think I have ever been more excited about a game.... I can't wait to drive all the pretty cars, and take on all the new tracks... Oh Lord, I'll stop there.... I'm getting too excited.... I might inadvertantly soil myself....

 

[matic]

First off look at the name next to the post with settings, not me. I don't post settings because every driver is different and likes different setups. How can you be so positive that only your way works. What about stock cars with only sim tires they don't have any special settings on suspension or lsd. I think if you take other peoples settings to get started thats fine to but eventually your gunna find your own. Plus im sure its a little different using a wheel, i use a controller so i cant turn a little bit or gas it a little bit. My x button sticks and you have to push hard to get the anolog to move but "i have fun" and i got used to it so my settings work for me.

 

[Swift]

How can you be so positive that only your way works. What about stock cars with only sim tires they don't have any special settings on suspension or lsd.

Check SD's first vid. Drifting stock silvias. It's in his sig.

im sure its a little different using a wheel, i use a controller so i cant turn a little bit or gas it a little bit

SD uses a controller. he uses the left stick for steering and the right stick for throttle and brakes.

My x button sticks and you have to push hard to get the anolog to move but "i have fun" and i got used to it so my settings work for me.

Nobody is saying don't have fun. What he and I are saying is that bad settings inevitably lead to bad technique. That's it. If you're in it just for fun. Then do whatever you want. But if you'd like to learn how to be better in GT3 and IRL, then I would listen to someone that knows more and has done it longer. That's what I've done and I've become a better driver/drifter from it.

 

[Gabkicks]

i've seen rossriders drift. he's almost as good as me, but u guys have never seen me drift so that means nothing. But what i've noticed is that it looks like he is trying harder than i do when we battle. WHen my tires are barely ssmoking, hes damn near doing a burnout sideways.... I dunno....But that could be because he uses a controller and i use a wheel.? probably the input devices... So if the setup were that bad for gt3, then his drifts should look terrible. but they dont. ahhhh i hate this, lol. gt4 will settle everything. 👍

 

[Swift]

gt4 will settle everything

I like that point. MAybe not everything, but it'll certainly help!

 

[Delphic Reason]

First off look at the name next to the post with settings, not me. I don't post settings because every driver is different and likes different setups. How can you be so positive that only your way works. What about stock cars with only sim tires they don't have any special settings on suspension or lsd. I think if you take other peoples settings to get started thats fine to but eventually your gunna find your own. Plus im sure its a little different using a wheel, i use a controller so i cant turn a little bit or gas it a little bit. My x button sticks and you have to push hard to get the anolog to move but "i have fun" and i got used to it so my settings work for me.

I am positive who posted the settings... I'm not sure why you brought that up?...

It's not about MY WAY.... If you did your research, and looked into how cars are setup for racing/drifting... You would come to the same conclusion... Instead of fighting me on this, why don't you look into it?.... That's all I'm saying.... I'm just trying to get people to do the research, instead of blindly changing settings.... There ARE counterproductive settings, to say there isn't is just boldfaced ignorance.... As I have stated numerous times, what I have outlined are the basics of drift/grip settings... They can be tweaked, adjusted, whatever, but they are the basic settings that make a FR drift with optimal ease (particularly the S13).....

What about stock cars with only sim tires they don't have any special settings on suspension or lsd.

A stock car on sims (with no changes to the settings) can drift just fine... However a well tuned suspension and LSD setting will help the car be easier to control, and so on....

Please read, and not skim through my posts....

So if the setup were that bad for gt3, then his drifts should look terrible. but they dont. ahhhh i hate this, lol. gt4 will settle everything.

Anyone can get used to any style/setting with enough repetition.... People can get used to counterproductive techniques and settings nearly as easy as productive ones....

The point is, it's not the easiest way to do so.... He, you, or anyone else can do whatever they like.... I'm just trying to help you guys understand why a certain part is set up a certain way, so you can make better tuning decisions....

As Swift said, If your just a casual drifter that just want to have some fun and not really get serious about it, then that's fine... If you are serious about it, and want to learn what each setting does and why,

Do the research!!!

If you don't, there really isn't much more to say....

 

[725]

How can you be so positive that only your way works

It's not about MY WAY.... If you did your research, and looked into how cars are setup for racing/drifting... You would come to the same conclusion...

SD knows his stuff and I would suggest at least trying his suggestions. I have and I've made significant improvements. If you watch the IDM drift vid, the drift with the black SZ is one of the most perfect drifts I've seen (and its done with a controller) see the evidence and you'll see why SD is a repected member of the drift forum. Many of the veteran members of this forum can drift extremely well and I think a lot can be learnt from them.

I'm not trying to lecture anyone just giving some friendly advice

 

[R_Riders]

Well..I’m here again to try and say something relevant...

First off to Silvia-drifter...

I knew someone was going to can me on that setup...I prob should have figured it would be Silvadrifter , I was a bit upset yeterday but I waited till tomorrow to let my anger cool down and also talk with some of the GTP people on AIM and one in RL. Silvia drifter is right or at least has some credibility to say my settings are deamed counter-productive. But like Gabkicks said... we’ll have to wait till GT4...only 2 problems with even that unfornattely... 1 if my dad will allow me to get network connections to do that and 2- even if I could get online...I’ll be stuck at boarding school...I doubt my skills will wither but it will take time for me to make the proper adjustment from Gt3 to GT4. I haven’t had much experience with it so far (what demo I played of it I mean...)...but I think I did well...then again...

Anywho...again about the setup...I was a bit angry before but then again it’s a game and Silva-drifter has a lot more experience than either me or a lot of us here or so I can figure (thus he’s a vetrain if not expert member and someone to be respected...I hope that didn’t sound like I was being an a** kisser because that’s not the case...) and he is right, and if I had posted this a few hours ago, the words ‘and I hate to admit it but he is right’ would have been there...I don’t really need to get at the reasearch cause I did go over it a while ago (I don’t know if it counts anything that since 5 I’ve been looking into cars...and I got searous around 5th/6th grade...so I have close to 7 years of looking up cars a LOT...), I see what you mean.

But like Gabkicks said, I’m just preaty comfortable with that setting...but becuase I lack a video capture card... for all anyone can care, my words can be bull ****. Not to mention I’ve tried maybe a dozen times to justify every part of my setup and I bet you would think I was a -cencored- idoit for going that way...then again you didn’t know what things I did setup for...since I didn’t map out everything the right way (I guess that happens...)...

(and the next parigraph is going to point out why...so LOOK please?)
I got the toe and chamber angler mixed up...that’s probally 2 key points to why you prob assumed my setup was very counter-productive...then again...dangit...I’m out of ideas on what to say...maybe I’ll just talk with you on AIM or send a PM message...maybe that’ll sort things out...(yeah, i can’t seam to always speak strait...)


I would say more but i can’t seam to think of much else to say...I guess thanks to gabkicks for supporting my side a little...but then again...no damn video capture card...so for all you people know...we could be lying...depsite that we aren’t...ah...crap...I’m just blabbering...I may do an edit on this repy with something relevant...it’s too freaking late around here...sorry for not putting this in one sentence...gah...I'm saying too much...

Untill later...

EDIT:...wait a second...maybe I should have waited till now...I thought I had gotten the toe and camber angle settings mixed up...they aren't (otherwise that would explain some things...so much for that...then again...), well...not sure what else to say...I guess just to try and restate what I said before in a more clear fashion.

So ignore just about most of what I had said before and just read what I'm going to try and say now.

At this point what remote resent of anger of sense of being upset from his last post about my setup has more or less faded, I can see what he means, I had did a little research, and come to think about it, not to sound like a wise *** but I did know about a few of the things Silvia-dirfter pointed out. It's a game so well... I'll put it this way...if damage in all areas was considered in any of the GT games...I would take this into some account if not entirely. I'm not saying I would completely change my setup from before, but I would trade in some degree of perfomace, least for my case if not any indivdual for an obvious degree of durability or making sure I don't wear out my parts in no time (in relation to real life anyway...here I go again being confusing).

And again, I knew someone would can me on the setup, I'm aware of the consequences of how my car is setup...it's strange but it seams to work well for me...then again you have yet to see me drift so all my words really do sound like a bunch of **** or so I can at least imagine. Then again, would it be too late to mention that even though I'm good at drifting to some degree (such as learning how to drift cars bone stock save for sims or any other tire needed to drift...I should take a look at that video Silviadrifter did make about drifting stock cars...), I'm still experimenting a bit with some car setups but not so drasticly, just trying to figure what works well for me like anyone would. I dunno, to one it would seam counter-productive, to me it seams to work. Not sure what else to say...I may just discuss some things with Silvia-drifter.

If not anything else...I should just end this by saying what Gabkicks said, GT4 will sort out everything (espically since I lack a **** video capture card...).

Anything else I've bound to left out like it should have been taken care of...I will do so...and well...till later...again...