My turn to get a new car

[Poverty]

budget £12k possibly £13k. Insurance budget £3000.
I am open to suggestions and advice on what cars I maybe should be looking at or test driving also.


So far on my shortlist is:

Audi A3 2.0 FSI SPORT (Who would have guessed)

Pros:

*Image
*Reliability
*Nice interior
*Good residuals
*Good engine
*Safe
*Cheap to service (depending on service intervals chosen)
*Could get a lowish mileage 2004/2005 model for my money

Cons:

*People might think its my mums car
*Not cheap to insure
*Not as fun to drive as a BMW


Next up, BMW 318ti compact

Pros:

*Image
*Good residuals
*Rare (or alot rarer than the A3 anyway)
*Solid german build quality
*Could get a low mileage 2004 model for my money
*Great dynamics

Cons:

*Image (If your british you will understand)
*Not cheap to service
*Not as reliable as the audi
*My money wont get a low mileage M-tech kitted compact
*I only like the hard to find M-tch kitted versions (as pictured)
*Front head lights are ugly
*Audi is cheaper to insure


And now lastly the 318ci

Pros:

*Image
*Goodish residuals
*Solid german build quality
*Great dynamics
*Nice interior
*Its a mans car, and im still a boy
*Its a E46!

Cons:

*My budget would buy a 2004 with around 30,000miles
*Not as reliable as the audi
*Not cheap to service/repair
*Everyone and their dogs got one.
*About £800 more expensive to insure than the A3
*Starting to look dated
*I would have to shell out for M3 replica alloys to be happy with it.

 

[Ev0 4 drifter]

IMO go for the BMW 318ci, that's probably the best looking. go for either the 318ci or the Audi, the bmw compact is nasty!

 

[ExigeEvan]

A SEAT Leon perhaps? You could probably get a Cupra for that money.

The only problem being that it doesn't have the brand snobbery of a BMW or Audi.

Perhaps, you might even consider a Clio 182. Though I don't know what the insurance would be like, or whether you would even consider the badge.

 

[Poverty]

I love the leon cupra but Insurance on a cupra, clio 182 and civic type r's is about 8 grand for me. At the moment hot hatches are sadly still out of the equation.

I also like the new astra sxi/sri but I'm kinda weary about loosing too much money on one even over two years (I plan on keeping my next car for only two years) If it wasnt for the depreciation the astra would stand a very good chance, as for my money I would be able to get a near new model.

Does anyone know where I can get performance figures for the compact BMW?

 

[ExigeEvan]

I'm surprised you can insure a BMW 3 compact but not a SEAT Leon Cupra.

Um, have you thought about a new Ford Focus? There's some nicely equiped ones going for under £12K. It would certainly be a safe car in the event of an accident as well.

 

[Poverty]

I'm surprised you can insure a BMW 3 compact but not a SEAT Leon Cupra.

Um, have you thought about a new Ford Focus? There's some nicely equiped ones going for under £12K. It would certainly be a safe car in the event of an accident as well.

I really like the new focus' but one of my good mates has already got one, and Id rather have a different car.

Under my mums name the insurance for the compact beemer fully comp is £2670, under my name fully comp its £4200. I havent bothered doing any quotes for a hot hatch under my mums name as under my name its 8 grand so I cant imagine it being much cheaper for me even as a named 2nd driver.

The insurance quotes for the A3 2.0FSI is very good compared to the beemers. Its only £100 more than the 1.6FSI version and is £2450 under my mums name. Under my name its £3500.

The 318ci is £2800 under my mums name, and about £4500 under mine.

Focus insurance for 2.0 zetec is £2000 as a named driver.

£7000 for the leon cupra r under my mums name

 

[daan]

So, is this going to be shared between you and your mum? If its just yours, why are you considering breaking the law by insuring it under your mum's name?

 

[Poverty]

Im gonna be paying for it all, but she can drive it when ever she wants. Only time I will be driving it is at weekends. Is that still illegal?

 

[toyomatt84]

I'd choose the A3, and slam it on some 18" Schmidt TH-Line's (3piece).

 

[Race Idiot]

Finance or all in one payment? Because I had a friend that was looking at 3 series and for some reason they seem to cost more than decently equipped 5 series of the same year. He ended up buying a realy nice 528i for the same price as a 318i of simmilar age.

It depends though, I mean if I was you and had your gigantic boner for everything that comes out of Deutschland i'd go for something older and a bit cheaper. Because seriously with those base trim bmw's your mostly paying for the badge, they aren't realy very fun to drive. This is why most people who own 316/8i's drive like demented idiots because they bought 'THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE MAN SERIOUSLY'

With the budget you have set, you could realy get a Nice E36 M3. I mean E46's start at about £17 grand these days anyway. But any M car would probably cause major rapage of the ass from insurance companies. I dunno if it was me I don't think I could drive a 4-cyl bmw, i'd probably go for a good condition 6-cylinder E30 or E36 which are pretty plentiful in London anyway.

Also with the older cars at least you'll be able to work on them yourself, seeing as most newish cars aren't that great to work on as a whole. Unless bmw has a bumper to bumper warranty thing I forget. Even then that doesn't last forever so it's probably going to be better off finding a decent independant bmw specialist than going to the damn dealers realy.

This post is massive and rambly because i'm kind of ill but my main point is god don't look at 4 cylinder bmws, unless it's an E30 M3.

 

[rovens]

So, is this going to be shared between you and your mum? If its just yours, why are you considering breaking the law by insuring it under your mum's name?

Im sure its not illegal. I know a lot of younger drivers who insure the car in a parents name, then go on the policy as a named driver.

Driving instructors often reccomend it as well.

 

[Poverty]

For my money I could easily get a 2001 330ci, its just insurance right now that is a limiting factor, hence me just wanting to keep whatever car I choose for only two years, whilst I start building up my no claims bonus.

I could probably get a early E46 325ci, and use the money I saved on getting the older more powerful vehicle on the costlier insurance, but I dont fancy getting a car thats nearly 5/6yrs old and will probaly have over 40,000miles.

Basically I also want trouble free driving, as I only do about 6,000 miles and I dont want to take the risk of getting a older bmw that might require expensive work on it. Oh and I drive like a lunatic, id probably end up in a ditch if I had a 325/330ci.

 

[Race Idiot]

Im sure its not illegal. I know a lot of younger drivers who insure the car in a parents name, then go on the policy as a named driver.

Driving instructors often reccomend it as well.

But if the said parent never ever drives that car and it's pretty much only you driving it that's insurance fraud. It would be legitimate if say Povertys mum used it during the week and he used it on the weekends though because then he isn't the primary driver.

Also there have been cases where the Insurance company have asked parents questions about the car and when said parents have been unable to answer these questions (for instance, which side is the fuel filler cap on) it becomes a bit obvious who is the primary driver.

For my money I could easily get a 2001 330ci, its just insurance right now that is a limiting factor, hence me just wanting to keep whatever car I choose for only two years, whilst I start building up my no claims bonus.

I could probably get a early E46 325ci, and use the money I saved on getting the older more powerful vehicle on the costlier insurance, but I dont fancy getting a car thats nearly 5/6yrs old and will probaly have over 40,000miles.

Basically I also want trouble free driving, as I only do about 6,000 miles and I dont want to take the risk of getting a older bmw that might require expensive work on it. Oh and I drive like a lunatic, id probably end up in a ditch if I had a 325/330ci.

The older cars will be cheaper to maintain than the newer ones anyway, you shouldn't have any problems if you get one with a decent service history and have the car inspected it should be just as reliable as the newer car. As long as it's been regularly serviced/maintained you shouldn't have a problem. Mind you this is coming from someone who drives a 10 year old car that feels like an earthquake machine over the slightest bumps in the road as a factory default.

Also restraint is a good thing to have, I mean if you can put a 328i into a ditch you can probably easily put a 318i in there as well or even the dull-o-matic whoops I meant a3.

 

[Poverty]

TBH I dont know much about BMW reliability, but what I do know is that if it has vanos, and the vanos messes up its expensive!

The audi is the sensible choice, but I do oh so love E46 coupes.

I might go test driving tomorrow, so I might have some short write ups in here.

 

[Tornado]

TBH I dont know much about BMW reliability, but what I do know is that if it has vanos, and the vanos messes up its expensive!

There is an unsaid rule with used BMW's: Less than 100,000 miles (or, um...some greater amount of KM) and it's fine (unless it is a V12). This is extended if it isn't filled with electronic tomfoolery.

 

[Poverty]

I see. Would there be a noticeable difference in smoothness between a car with 20,000 miles and 50,000?

 

[Tornado]

Probably not. The mechanicals in older BMW's usually last for a good while (barring the V12's) so long as they are maintained and not abused. It's the electronics that go kaplooey from 50k to 100k. It would probably be better to get a less high strung 3 sereis (for example, don't run out and buy an E36 M3 because they are cheap), but it shouldn't really matter. My uncle has owned quite a few BMW's, you see.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well from a fellow VAG guy's perspective, don't you think the Golf option would be a better choise? They are built just as well, are probably cheaper to insure (correct me if I am wrong, please), and you could argueably get more for your money. A new Golf GT sounds like a good idea, or there is always the stand-by GTI...

I like the Astra idea as well. Of course, what I've seen of the car has been limited to Whatcar.co.uk and Top Gear. You mention the resale value, but how hard would it be to pick up a used model with a couple grand knocked off the top? I mean GM usually comes first in my book, I think everyone knows that here, but in the class you are looking at there are too-many good choises available!!!

 

[Wolfe]

To sorta echo what some of the other members have been saying about BMW reliability, the engine and drivetrain will often last until the end of time...but you'll be driven insane by the little things that break (electronics and interior things mostly). For a perfect example, my BMW's electronic lock system recently fried itself, and because the mechanical part of my driver's door lock can unlock, but not lock the door (that part is broken too), I have to crawl in from the passenger door, lock the driver's door, then lock the passenger door, just to lock my car.

In any case, I (obviously) would choose the 318ci out of those three, although seeing that picture of a 3-door A3 makes me wish we had that version of the car on this side of the pond. The two extra doors of the 5-door A3 turn the car from a nice-looking hatchback to a hideous midget-SUV-van-thing.

By the way -- no offense, but may I ask why you're so deathly afraid of cars with more than a handful of miles on them? Is there something about the U.K. that cuts the life of a car in half, or are my friends and I weird for trusting 10-to-20-year-old cars with 150,000-250,000 miles on them to get us where we need to go daily, even going on hour-long trips out of town now and then?

If mileage and age were no factor, I'd recommend an E30 4-cylinder (the 6-cylinder E30's require more meticulous maintenance, and their timing belts are a weak point), or a E36 4/6-cylinder. Contrary to what Race Idiot would have you believe, a 4-cylinder 3-series is a great compromise between driving enjoyment and fuel economy. After all, pretty much any non-M3 3-series prior to the E90 is underpowered compared to its rivals no matter how many cylinders it has, so saving some fuel while enjoying a romp around some backroads now and then has its merits. It's not like you want to go drag racing, anyway.

Of course, on the other hand, I understand that Europe is plagued with boy-racers that like to pretend their 316/8i is an M3, and that you may not want to indirectly associate yourself with such a crowd. We'd probably have that same problem in the 'States if BMW still sold 4-cylinder cars here.




...I would recommend other cars, but if you're considering a BMW over a car from your favorite manufacturer just because of the fun-to-drive factor, I doubt anything FWD would really catch your attention, and there aren't very many AWD/RWD cars that can match what you're looking for and beat a 3-series at the fun-to-drive factor.

 

[1X83Z]

Next up, BMW 318ti compact

Cons:

*Image (If your british you will understand)

You don't have to be British to understand that the 318 hatch is for women.

 

[KurtisGSXR]

Whether you like a 318 for what it is or not, everyone will think you were trying to buy the badge on a new car for as little cash as you could.

Why get a 2004 318i, instead of a 2003 325i?

In your case I assume your age is the restriction, so a 2.5 will have the insurance company reaching for the lube and bringing out the gimp.

As a piece of car advice for a young car buyer, buy a cheap 2.0 mondeo or some other 93-96 ish thing. It'll cost you about 1000 to buy and with only third party insurance, that'll be cheap too.

You won't need comp because if you crash it, who cares? Throw it away, there's millions more, get another. And no-one nicks an old boring car if there's a bit of security on it, like a big lock or kill switch; the thief will just look for another with no security.

You can drive it like you stole it because you won't care about it, and when it breaks, fix it yourself. You'll gain knowledge and experience, and it's ALWAYS impressive to be able to diagnose problems on mates cars, it will make you a king of men.

My first car was a first gen clio 1.2 with a four speed 'box. Useless. Replaced by an old, old, 518i. Between them I replaced brakes, clutches, gearbox, valve seals, a million filters and lots of shock bushes.

These will make anyone appreciate a modern car that bit more, that most other can't.

[/Ramble]

 

[ExigeEvan]

By the way -- no offense, but may I ask why you're so deathly afraid of cars with more than a handful of miles on them? Is there something about the U.K. that cuts the life of a car in half, or are my friends and I weird for trusting 10-to-20-year-old cars with 150,000-250,000 miles on them to get us where we need to go daily, even going on hour-long trips out of town now and then?

2 things.

1) Our weather isn't too kind when it comes to rust.
2) We have MOTs, which I'm not sure if you have in your state. Alot fo stuff will probably need doing to a car to pass it's MOT if it has over 150,000 miles. Though it does depend how the car has been run.

As a piece of car advice for a young car buyer, buy a cheap 2.0 mondeo or some other 93-96 ish thing. It'll cost you about 1000 to buy and with only third party insurance, that'll be cheap too.

That's one idea I've considered. Though I think Poverty is abit too concerned with image to consider it (Not buying a good, affordable car because your mate has one!?)

 

[daan]

Though I think Poverty is abit too concerned with image to consider it (Not buying a good, affordable car because your mate has one!?)

He's going to end up spending more than he needs to.

Poverty - Why spend 12 grand on a car that you're only going to keep for a couple of years, and only use at weekends, in order to build up a no claims bonus? Buy something cheap(ish) and use it. Put/keep 10 grand in the bank, buy something for 2 grand, and in 2 years, you'll hopefully have a no claims bonus, and more money to spend to get something even better than what you are currently looking at.

318 Compact is for people who can't really afford a BMW, but want the badge. As has been mentioned, you'd probably get a better deal, and cheaper insurance on an older 5 series.

If you don't want to do that, have you looked at an Alfa? They've got all the style and good looks you need and most will easily fall into your 12 grand budget.

 

[Poverty]

Alfa reliability makes them a big no no in my book. Ive already done the cheap car thing with a corsa C, which ive given to my sister and now want something thats quite a bit more powerful and fun.

All I really have is cars, if I didnt spend my money on them I wouldnt really have anything to spend it on (althought the sensible choice would be to save for a flat) Basically Im 18, am a nearly fully qualified plumbing apprentice so make a bit more money than the average kid my age, and dont have any bills to pay. Plus my work van is alot faster than my corsa was

Anyway Im off to the dealers now

 

[daan]

Alfa reliability makes them a big no no in my book.

Reliability
Much better than Alfa Romeos of old, with users of parkers.co.uk reporting just a few minor niggles. Maintenance needs to be kept up for total peace of mind, especially with 3.2 V6 GTA models.

You're buying a nearly new car and only keeping it for 2 years. Reliability shouldn't be an issue for anything you buy.

 

[Max_DC]

So, is this going to be shared between you and your mum? If its just yours, why are you considering breaking the law by insuring it under your mum's name?

Ah comme on, everybody does it like that... same with my STi....

 

[Poverty]

I'll go check some alfas out tomorrow then!

Today I started my car browsing a bit late leaving my house at about 2pm.


Vauxhall

I arrived at the vauxhall dealer first, a little one that shares its space with a texaco petrol station. I go in and first thing I see is the new corsa. Dont like the front I say to myself, but get in anyway. The car was a 1.2 design model and it had black leather seats with black stitching. The interior was actually quite nice, a big improvement on the corsa C. I closed the door and it had a solid feel to it and made a nice "thunk" noise. However it still isnt at the same level as my friends VW polo. The dials looked nice, and the dash had some sort of polished black plastic trim, a bit like those samsung phones which I didnt quite like though. Anyway I get out and think, for 9,000 grand Id rather get a near new golf or a new polo.

I then looked for a 3 door astra but this small dealership didnt have any. I wasnt impressed by the normal 5 door versions I looked at so decided to leave before the sales person starts his sales pitch.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Audi

It was then off to the audi dealership!

Let me first give the bad news....All the RS4's they had were long sold out!
So anyway as I got out my car I was getting extremley excited, all those beautiful audi's. I parked up next to a silver A3, just like the one I wanted but a diesel and noticed that the other newer audi's made it look a bit dated and dumpy!

First thing that caught my eye was the new S6 with its V10 in black, blacked out and sitting outside. Very nice, my dad wondered about looking at A4's and A6's, whilst I looked for a A3 I saw on their used site a couple days before. Sadly after talking to a sales man I found out it got sold the day before

Anyway I then sat in a A3 2.0T S-line with a pricetag of £24,000 with my dad. We loved it, the interior was phenomenal, a very very nice car and very spacious. My dad actually didnt like audi's that much as he used to have a audi' 80, and rated them below BMW's and Mercedes. His opionion was beggining to sway.

We then went and sat in a A6, again very nice and my dad liked it alot. But then we sat in a complete monster, the audi S8. OMG what a car. Its just in a completely different league to the other cars we sat in. My dads been in all the latest rolls, bentleys, maybachs ferraris' etc, but this car was it for him. In his own words " this is one serious piece of kit, its actually got me interested in cars again".
You know when you close the door on a car, but you didnt pull it hard enough so it doesnt close properly, well with the S8 it closes the door properly itself if you didnt manage to do it yourself. The car just kinda sucks the door in.

I got some pictures of the audi's albeit not very good as I took it with my phone and sometimes there was not enough space to get the whole car into the frame. However the engine pic I got of the S8 is good.

I then talked to the sales man again and he took my details, and he will let me know when they get some cars that meet my requirements in stock.

Just as we were leaving we quickly sat in the new TT, a very nice car also, and has a very nice interior. I noticed that alot of the audi's had red leather, and I think that it is a awesome combination.

So no audi test drive, as they didnt have the model I wanted in stock 2nd hand.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

BMW

Then I headed for the BMW garage. First car I got in was a new 3er touring. First thing I thought was what a dissapointment. I dont know what spec this was but the interior was crap. Below VW, on par with ford. I then went and sat in the new 3er coupe. The interior on that was much better but again the gap between it and a similiar audi was big. My dad like the dash layout though, as it made the cars seem more spacier/wider than the audi's. One thing the BMW's definetly had on audi though was the comfort of the leather seats, although I reckon the audi ones would be alot more hardwearing.

We then moved on to the the 530d with a beige interior which wasnt too bad looking, but again the audi was much better. The actually build quality and feel of the doors reminded me to that of the new corsa I sat in, which shows how far that new corsa has moved on. Anyway as I felt further disapointed as I went along I decided to sit in the Z4M. It was a mission getting in and out of it, and sitting in iteverythign was close around me, yet didnt feel really sporty as such, I prefered the 2.0T TT, and again so did my dad.

Then I moved on to the M5, this was better, but interior wise not really on par up to other £60,000 vehicles, however might it have been the S8 spoilt us? No I decide as the A6 was quite a bit better. Every little interior detail of the M5 just wasnt as good as that of a audi.

I found alot of the BMW's there ugly, with only the sport models looking really mean and manly, but not beautiful. Ironically most the customers there were females...blonde ones.

I looked around for used 3ers, of which there were loads, but no pricetags, instead they had numbered tickets so you would have to talk to a sales man to see the price etc. Didnt like that at all really, and the 3ers that they did have in stock were way over my budget! 30 grand for a 2005 330ci, lol they must be having a laugh, who would buy that when the new ones out? But knowing the typical BMW owner they probably would. Half the customers in the dealership did look like the type who would live beyond the means of their income.

We left the BMW garage dissapointed, and still not having test driven anything.

----------------------------------------------------------------

VW

Last garage of the day was VW just before closing time. As we went in we passed a £30,000 grand Golf R32. My dad was like wtf you could buy a audi for that whats going on? I explained to him what it was but we still both agreed that the price was kinda OTT. We then sat in the Eos which wasnt bad, and my dad mentioned how the interior in these were better than those in the BMW's.

We then sat in a 5 door Golf GTI and we were both disapointed with that car, it didnt feel special at all.

Again didnt test drive anything, but I am booked to return tomorrow morning to drive the 2.0FSI sport and the 1.6 FSI sport, maybe even the 1.4 TSI.

I shall also be going to my local car supermarket and check them out, as they should have some BMW's and A3's in my required spec to test drive.

I will also checkout some alfas.

 

[daan]

Ah comme on, everybody does it like that... same with my STi....

You may be allowed to. You're in Germany. I know nothing of German car insurance laws.

Over here in the UK, the main named driver has to drive the car more often than any other named driver, otherwise its insurance fraud.

But if the said parent never ever drives that car and it's pretty much only you driving it that's insurance fraud. It would be legitimate if say Povertys mum used it during the week and he used it on the weekends though because then he isn't the primary driver.

Also there have been cases where the Insurance company have asked parents questions about the car and when said parents have been unable to answer these questions (for instance, which side is the fuel filler cap on) it becomes a bit obvious who is the primary driver.

And the fact that everyone does it, doesn't make it less illegal either.

 

[Max_DC]

You may be allowed to. You're in Germany. I know nothing of German car insurance laws.

Over here in the UK, the main named driver has to drive the car more often than any other named driver, otherwise its insurance fraud.


And the fact that everyone does it, doesn't make it less illegal either.

Well your last sentence is very true, but still, should be very hard to proove for the insurence company....

 

[Poverty]

Some of my badly taken pictures

I also took some pics of the M5 and Z4M but they both came out very badly ie blurry so wont bother uploading them. To make up for it heres pics of a RS4 from down my road