Nürburgring help? Please?

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Fink Floyd

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First of all, sorry if this has been done before. I did a search and didn't spot anything obvious, but feel free to slap me around/point me in the right direction/none of the above if I missed something.

I'm having BIIIG problems with the Nordschleife. Despite driving round it quite a lot (I'm aware of the massive mileages some of the more dedicated forumites here do on GT4, so I don't mean *that* much, but suffice to say that I'm not a total newcomer), I just can't seem to get the hang of the place. I fly off the track at the Flugplatz (all the other cars seem to be able to keep the throttle pegged there - I fly off if I try), I bash walls at Füchsrohre, Adenauer Forst, Kallenhard and Bergwerk, then things get steadily worse through Hohe Acht, Pflantzgarten and Galgenkopf. I even managed to spin it on the long straight once, fer Chrissakes. (The places I named above are the main problem areas, I think).

The thing is, I'm not a bad GT driver, I don't think. I'm not the best by a long shot, but I've beaten the GTWC, the GT All Stars (by the skin of my teeth - the Sauber C9 munched his tyres on the last lap of the Nordschleife round. Oh, the irony) and done the DTM several times. I do any race I can at La Sarthe (my favourite track) and my best lap round Sarthe II in a maxed Pesky is a 2.57.033. That may not be mega-fast (I don't know) but I think it's respectable. Why can't I do the Ring properly?

I've tried a lot of things to get this right, because I love the track (it's my second favourite after La Sarthe). I've tried laps in my Chaparrals, BMW M3 GTR race car, McLaren F1 GTR, Mazda 787B, Toyota 88C-V ('glued to the track', according to Zardoz in his most excellent Sarthe II report - not when I'm driving it, it ain't), Nissan R92CP, Playstation Pesky, Abt Audi TT-R, Mercedes 2.5-16 Touring Car, etc. etc. The best I can do is a 6.15.303, in a tuned 787B, and I haven't been able to match it since. B-spec Fink can do a 6.05.xxx in my newly acquired Minolta on R2/R1 tyres (he's currently doing the Ring 24H for me. I do a lap or two here and there, because he's obliterating the competition, but then sulk and give it back to him because I can't get within 10s of his times even when I use R3/R4s) so it ain't the car's problem.

So, long story short, if anyone can help me out I'd be very appreciative. I've seen people say they can do 5.25.xxx round the Ring in equivalent cars, so the time is obviously out there. I want some of it. Any help at all would be great.

Cheers
Fink
 
Id say just keep practising and eventually it will all come good.

Im not the best on this track but im good enough to beat the AI cars and I did beat mission 34 on my first attempt.

I pretty much learned the entire track during the 4hr endurance there so id say if you havent done that yet its a very good way to learn
 
Without knowing what you're doing wrong, it's going to be hard to tell you what to do differently.:confused:

Trouble is, we all race in different ways, and everyone uses different lines and braking points, often for similar times.:indiff:

So my advice is this: go through the licenses; pick out all the tests that take place on the 'Ring and Gold them; if you can't, watch the demos and see what the experts do. After all, they REALLY know what they're doing, and you can see their lines, braking points, how much throttle they use, even how much steering input they put in. My great mistake was being too rough with both the steering and the brakes. (Err... That's 2 mistakes *Ahem* My great mistakeS were... etc):dunce:

That's all we can say really, without looking over your shoulder and saying "Ooh, you don't want to do it like that...":dopey:

Good luck!:)
 
Well all you need to do is keep practicing.Try out family cup series on a low level with a car that suits you.i have put alot of hours in that track just practicing,and im still not perfect at it.But Ive come a long way from the first time I raced there.And if you still have problems try following a car in family cup without passing him,kind of like the pace car in the licences.👍
 
I would totally agree with FastEddie12, CrackHoor and skyline speed. A slower car and lots and lots of laps is going to help a lot.

Staring out with the slower 'toys' lets you concentrate on learning the line and the common problem areas (which the linked to guide also does very well).

I would also suggest not trying to remember every single corner, but to learn the course in chunks. It makes it easier to recall that way.

Regards

Scaff
 
It takes a lot of laps around the ring before one is familliar with it, and many many more before anyone can claim to master it.

As many have said, practice is the key, however I would say that above that comes patience. Simply, don't try to do blazing hot lap every time, certainly not while you are getting used to it. Take it easy and back off early for all corners, then as you start to learn them you can hit them a bit faster each time, or try a different approach and line through, to see what works best for you.

Pick a few corners you like or are having particular trouble with and really concentrate on getting just those ones right each lap, treat the rest of the lap as a cruise (a fast one!). If you worry about your lap times then you are doomed from the start, this 'Ring is a place for driving, not counting numbers ;)

Some may disagree, but I found the best way to force one's self to learn the 'Ring was to choose a car that you are familliar with and which has good handling but not too much power, and fit it with N1 tyres.
Yes, N1 tyres (or N2 if you must) will help you learn the track because you have to drive smoothly and carefully to stay on the road, and this is exactly what the 'Ring demands.

Like you, I too thought I was an excellent driver when I got the game and quickly became frustrated at my inability do lap the ring without several major offs. However with patience and the afore mentioned techniques, I have can now lap the 'Ring at a fairly consistant rate (Ruf Yellow bird @ 8:3X on N1s, low 8s on N2s).

Good luck and don't give up - taking it easy is the key :)
 
Brock5000
Some may disagree, but I found the best way to force one's self to learn the 'Ring was to choose a car that you are familliar with and which has good handling but not too much power, and fit it with N1 tyres.
Yes, N1 tyres (or N2 if you must) will help you learn the track because you have to drive smoothly and carefully to stay on the road, and this is exactly what the 'Ring demands.

Like you, I too thought I was an excellent driver when I got the game and quickly became frustrated at my inability do lap the ring without several major offs. However with patience and the afore mentioned techniques, I have can now lap the 'Ring at a fairly consistant rate (Ruf Yellow bird @ 8:3X on N1s, low 8s on N2s).

Good luck and don't give up - taking it easy is the key :)
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A faszinating idea, though I tend to use benign slick-shod GT300 cars to familiarise newcomers to the Green Heaven. I certainly agree that after familiarisation, N tyres are the only way to truly experience PD’s ring goodness. Incidentally, I’m missing the Ybird in your avatar.

*Off to replace Ybird N3 tyres with N1s*:D 💡 :nervous:
 
To me, it sounds like you know what you´re doing, and also know the ring quite well, so I think you tend to set up your cars to be too hard in their suspension. Loosen them up and try again! Cars need a looser setup for the ring than you might think. Remember that if you are using someone elses settings, they might not suit your drivingstyle as well as his.
 
Like everyone said, an easy-to-control car and tons upon tons of laps. I memorized the track by doing endless hours of Nürburgring racing on X-Box Live in PGR2. Despite its inaccuracies, it still allowed me to learn the track, and it only took a few laps of the vastly-more-accurate GT4 'Ring to get back into the swing of things.

Eventually, you'll be plodding along around the 'Ring, and you'll "wake up" and realize that you can't remember doing the last quarter of a lap. :lol: That's when you know you've got it down.
 
I agree with everyone who says use a slower car 👍 Race cars are low to the ground and have uber-stiff suspensions; not good at the Nurburgring. You'll have to learn all the bumps to master the track in a race car, but save that for another day. Drive a slow (but fun) car around for a couple hours. It'll come together.
 
Hello Fink...

I think the 'Ring holds a special place in the affections of most GT4 players, hence a special track requires special attention, if you want to get the most out of it...

Here's some brief suggestions, all of which should (hopefully) put you (or should I say, keep you on) the right track! :sly:

1. Do and re-do the license tests that use sections of the Ring... this is a great way to learn many of the more complex sections.

2. Don't leather it straight away. Take some time to learn the track turn by turn. Take a car you're comfortable in and take the time, enjoy the scenery, and memorise the circuit - this takes quite a while, but it's necessary nonetheless. There are tonnes of sections on the Ring where you have to know one or two corners in advance in order to be able to hit them successfully at speed.

3. Keep away from the really high speed cars if you're still shaky on some of the sections - the F1 and cars like the Sauber, Minolta or the LMP cars are not ideal for learning. Try the touring cars, like the BMW M3 GTR Race Car or the Audi TT Touring Car, which are great handling and quick, but not too quick... (for example, I can take Flugplatz without lifting in the M3 GTR or Audi TT, with alot of practice, but not in some of the more powerful cars) (For a guide to laptimes in the TT, check out the weekly race series results from the 'Ring a few months back (rules/settings here...)

4. Save your replays and use the ghost to see where you are going wrong. Stick to the same car for a while and you will start to iron out those rough edges - by sticking to the same car (and set-up), you will be able to make meaningful comparisons between your lap times...

5. That said, just as is the case with people who do the Ring for real, try shifting the focus from getting quick lap times to staying on the track... the lap time is just one measure of how good a lap was. A quick, dirty lap is less satisfying than a slightly slower, but perfectly clean lap...

6. Watch this vid (Macromedia flash player required) for some inspiration :eek:... Hans Stuck at the 'Ring in the BMW M3 GTR Race Car... :bowdown:

TM
 
Thanks for all the help, people - looks like some serious track learning is the way to go then. I've been looking for an excuse to buy an Audi Quattro for a while - I think that'll do as a Nordschleife donkey until I can get it together enough to drive the M3 GTR or the TT-R.

Interesting point about the suspension settings from Team666 - what I know about chassis tuning could be written on the back of a cigarette packet and still leave room for the health warning. I tend to lower the rideheight on all my cars and leave it at that - this is wrong, I take it. How do you set a car up for the 'Ring?
 
I'd try settings like this:

Springs 7.0 / 6.0
Ride height 120 / 130 or more
Dampers B 4 / 4
Dampers RB 6 / 6
Camber anything under 2.0
Stabilizer 4 /4

and work from this on. Hope this helps. :)
 
Scaff
I would totally agree with FastEddie12, CrackHoor and skyline speed. A slower car and lots and lots of laps is going to help a lot.

Staring out with the slower 'toys' lets you concentrate on learning the line and the common problem areas (which the linked to guide also does very well).

I would also suggest not trying to remember every single corner, but to learn the course in chunks. It makes it easier to recall that way.

Regards

Scaff
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I agree. I learned the 'Ring by driving the older Integra Type-R around it for about half an hour a day. It is quick enough to be interesting, but predictable and forgiving.
 
CrackHoor
Check this guide out, and use a slower car (a stock Miata or something like it) until you can drive it half-asleep.
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I really can't recommend the BMW guide enough.. It is THE best thing for learning the Ring !... Driving the Ring in a high powered car will get you nowhere - that's my experience at least ...
 
I think a stock BMW M3 with N2 tyres would be one of the best ways to start, it has a fairly neutral balance and is very easy to control oversteer in. Really, use anything that you are comfortable in, although I would avoid anything that is prone to understeer unless you are really familliar with it. The Ring rewards a 'slow in, fast out' driving style and particularly suits a rear wheel drive setup, be it FR, MR or, better yet, RR ;)

I would keep the suspension standard so it's soft enough to soak up the many bumps. A low ride height will bottom out on the bumps and some of the curbs, and a stiff setup will send you flying off them. Even when you are confident enough to tackle the Ring in a faster car you will still want it fairly compliant. Likewise I tend to avoid adding roll cages to cars I have dedicated for Ring use, although they will net you a better time, imo they put much stress on the old thumbs.
 
Anyone who says they won Mission 34 on the 1st attempt is full of sh%$. I'm willing to bet I am a faster driver than you and it took me quite a few attempts to beat Mission 34.

It is time to come back to reality!!!

Indoctrin
Id say just keep practising and eventually it will all come good.

Im not the best on this track but im good enough to beat the AI cars and I did beat mission 34 on my first attempt.

I pretty much learned the entire track during the 4hr endurance there so id say if you havent done that yet its a very good way to learn
Click to expand...
 
Well other guys are able to go through sections faster, if you say so....I guess you're right, but the learning process is backing off and going slower and slower untill you make the corner.

Get used to the slow entry speed and THEN go search the limits a bit, push the gass a little bit further, come wider out the corner a bit more...blablabla....
 
Well, some hard work has paid off already - though there's quite a distance to go yet, I'm quite encouraged. I bought an '82 Audi Quattro as my "Ring Car", tuned it to 300bhp (racing exhaust/stage 2 turbo/sports ROM) and put carbon brakes, fully customised suspension and R2 tyres on. I set my goal as an 8-minute lap before I could move up to a more powerful car. I just set a 7'59.7xx and am quite pleased with myself - though I don't doubt others could make it go faster, I can see the improvement already. I'm lapping far more cleanly and I know what's coming next - the only section that's still giving me hassle is the Hohe Acht/Wippermann/Brunchen bit. I took my 600bhp M3 GTR race car out afterwards aiming for a 7'30.000 - I got a 6'53.xxx on the first (scrappy) lap, so I think a 6'30.000 or even faster is possible.

Out of interest, what sort of times are people getting out of Audi Quattros on similar states of tune to mine round the 'Ring?
 
I learned the ring in Ginetta G4 with N3 tires. It's really great fun after you learn the corners and let the ginetta do perfect drifts/slides trough them, which is really easy as it's so forgiving to drive :) I drove the 1000 miles event, which is a great race for learning the track. Oh, and my best lap wasn't all that good, 9 minutes and 14 seconds.
 
Yeah Ginetta is cool, but seeing how you started of, all those rigid racing cars are too bouncy to learn the Nurb. Take some stock car like....Renault Clio Sport:tup::D My favorite car by far:dopey:
 
euro323i
I'm willing to bet I am a faster driver than you and it took me quite a few attempts to beat Mission 34.
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Why don't you join the WRS then to show us just how fast, or slow, you really are?
 
I learned the 'Ring using a combination of, constantly attacking the course with different cars. All using standard tires, going to arcade mode and using a nice car like the VW Bora, it's a little slow but it's nice. Then I moved on to using the LM race cars, the CLK-GTR but not in arcade mode as you can't soften up the suspension. But my greatest help came from the BMW guide, it was the braking points which allowed me to master the 'Ring. GT4's "ring is about 90% accurate so the guide is very helpful, oh and use the M3 CSL on N1 or N2's, do not mess with any settings, just go drive it and aim for 8'30.
 
daan
Why don't you join the WRS then to show us just how fast, or slow, you really are?
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I was just about to say the same thing. ;)

savage evil
which allowed me to master the 'Ring
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Just playing with you. :D
I know what you meant when you wrote that. 👍 :)

Also,
appie17
practice practice practice
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This is the most true statement of all of them.

N1, N2, N3, S3, R5, it doesn't matter what kind of tires you use, just practice.

Don't believe me?
Well I've done tons and tons of Ring racing, but only about 5% of my racing has been on N tires.
Another 60 to 75% on S tires and finally, about 20% on racing tires.

Which of those do you think helped me learn the Ring?
All of them of course. :p
Well, sorta, the N tires haven't helped me one bit because I play on them so little.
The S tires have helped a ton because that's where most of my racing time is spent.

However, it was learning to tame the McLaren F1 on the Ring that pushed me to the next level.
Now, I'm not suggesting this lap to anyone struggling to learn the Ring.
However, I am suggesting that you take a look at this lap and think about whether or not I'm speaking BS or the truth...

5'27.993 McLaren F1 @ The Ring
Full Arcade Quick Tune/ R5 Tires

That's a link to a replay of the lap. 👍

I've already beat that lap too. :p
My current best is at 5'26.977 but I haven't loaded the replay to that.

In any case, if that time isn't enough to convince you I am "alright" on the Ring then I don't know what is.

So, if you are willing to take my advice...

Practice, practice, practice.
Don't worry about what kind of tires, they will all teach you and help you learn how to race the Ring faster.

Edit:
Btw, if that McLaren lap isn't enough, I must also mention that I won the week 10 NRS.

So yeah, I'm not the fastest (as there are plenty who are faster) but I am definately not "slow." ;)
 

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