NASCAR (Stock cars, Craftsman trucks, etc.) in GT5?

[Spec M]

Oh my God, F1 fans are the cream of the crop in motorsports, just look how classey an knowledgeable of the sport they are. No bear guzzling, they wear shirts and they have all their teeth.

I'll take these college educated guys over a bunch high school drop out rednecks

Four individuals? Its a shame that for the fourth time a point has to be brung up again, read the bold.

Are they really?

Im not certain but it may be the fact that for example the moderatly fast Toyota has 740bhp (a technolically adavnced 2.4l V8 I believe) and revs to 19,000rpm (FIA required), has a 7 speed gear box and much like the Williams only weights about 600 'ish' kilograms with the driver. But apparently a slightly wider rear wheel may help when going trough a turn with a 90 degree apex at 140mph+.

As far as drivers being skill 'less' because the rear tires are big.., well I wont even comment on that.



So hes the delegate for the entire F1 world?



Im sure if you check the F1 Regulations in there entire detail you may feel different. Theres a reason its known as the pinnacle of motorsport engineering and some have called it "space age engineering".

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/safety/

F1 has led to many innovations that have been homolgated into regular automotive manufacturing like carbon fiber, sequential transmissions, paddle shifters etc. Also after the Death of Senna many other technoligies were developed for example the HANS. Everything down to the gloves of the drivers have been specified an particularly designed. You will find it common that the stiching is inside out because of the fact that drivers would get blisters caused by the 'normal' figuration.

An F1 driver is trained to handle 4Gs, and constantly have straining pressure on there neck. Special weights were designed specifically for the purpose of keeping the drivers neck muscles in shape. I believe it was Jeff Gordon who drove an F1 car a couple years ago and stated something along the lines of; Its a real workout on the neck, those F1 drivers have strong necks and have to be in shape for it (not a direct quote). But heres a video of a few USAF trainees feeling what 4Gs is. Its alot similar to what the drivers experience but instead of going right to left they are simulating a pull (straight up).





Anyways they are indeed extremely strict. Even when it comes to the social perspective. For example, I believe it was the Turkish Grand Prix last year, when presenting the trophies on the podium a political figure made some political remarks and the FIA threaten that F1 wouldn't return to Turkey. Or not too long ago when racist remarks were made by individuals in the stands directed towards Hamilton in Spain. Now that whole GP is on thin ice. Alot of drama that goes on in NASCAR the FIA wouldn't dare tolerate. The drivers and fans represent the sport, and the FIA (from my perspective) wants men to conduct themselves as men with great sportsmanship.




I agree with you 100%. Many people take small negatives and turn them into a enormous overshadowing cloud that taints the entire organisation. Im sure everyone thats involved in the organisation doesn't have a 'pot' belly full of beer, raise in the south in a shanty shack deep in the woods.., point is all that stuff is rediculous though some stereotypes mite be true to certain individuals we have to remember the word: Individuals.

This is why alot of you are going in circles. If Earth would have read the statement above in bold concerning the Spain incident (that was originally posted 2 pages ago) there really wouldn't have been a reason to post that photo displaying utter ignorance. As some try to settle and get back to the top of discussion others continue to bash and add fuel to the fire.

 

[Perfect Balance]

No, I can not find statistics for worldwide other then it's broadcast in 150 out of the 195 countries in the world. If they are broadcasting it there, obviously someone is watching it or the TV networks wouldn't pay to NASCAR so they could air it. I met people in the UK who watched it, although that doesn't speak for the population.

No the evidence is not there, I'm yet to see you source anything to a creditable site. If you don't have evidence then don't bring it up.

I've shown you (on the biggest GT related site, this is the closest and most accurate representation you will get) that most GT players have no interest in NASCAR, hence why NASCAR doesn't have it's own forum, and with all the others forms of motorsports combined, doesn't rival the amount of activity F1 related topics alone get.

What you've shown me is whether or not a lot of people in American watch NASCAR.

for all you know there could be millions of NASCAR GT playing fans in the world.

That kind of goes along with the "You never know what's going to happen in the next 5 minutes" type of statements. You can't be 100% sure, but you can make predictions.

What you need to do it tell me why I'm wrong and show me why the opposite is true, otherwise we just end up as "You don't have proof" and we're back to square 1.

I have shown that a.) Nascar is broadcast throughout the world in many languages, b.) that Nascar is the most popular event in America, and c.) that Nascar is the second most viewed sporting event on tv in America.

👍....Then what?

 

[McLaren]

It's not, nor did I ever say that. I said the majority of GT players aren't NASCAR fans. I don't have "proof" but the evidence is all there, and you know it.

Bull...crap.

The only problem is that the United States isn't the world, and most of the NASCAR fans don't play GT. The ones who play GT are mostly fans of F1, Super GT, Le mans, ect ect.

There is no evidence. Quit making crap up.

If you choose to ignore the evidence just because there's no solid "proof" then you're being hard-headed.

The people you've known do not count as evidence for a million other people. That's terribly awful thinking.

Yes, very much so. You're knowledge is reflected in the way you speak. If you can't say words properly or use correct grammar, I have no reason to believe you're better at anything else. I don't even know why you chose to bring this up.

You're the one who said Nascar calling their mechanics made them more unintelligent.

Except for the simple fact that mechanic is a more appropriate word for what Nascars engineers do. They are correct in their saying.

I am a mechanic. I don't have to be skilled in making, or using the machines/vehicles I work on. I just have to know how to turn wrenches and diagnose problems.

Then you're not a mechanic if you believe all they do is turn wrenches and diagnose problems.

An engineer is someone is is skilled at designing and constructing whatever branch of engineering he takes part in. Big difference. I can't design a NASCAR, but I can put one together.

I'd love to see you put a Nascar together.

But an engineer is not just that. It has a broader definition.

That's like me saying you're wrong to call yourself gay when you're happy because there are several different definitions.

I said if someone wanted to, they could. I also said both Nascar & F1 are correct in what they call their engineers/mechanics.

I know it's due to the rules, but regardless, I mentioned I liked great engineering. Compared to Formula 1 (the #1 spot on the list) NASCAR is lacking.

Well, of course it's lacking. F1 uses all kinds of technology aids.

But, because you're a fan of engineering does not mean you know enough about Nascar to assume it has no advanced technology. The off season produces some amazing things.

That's only true for the 2 special colored Skylines.

Sorry, but I'm not talking about colors. I'm talking about the varying models that have extremely small differences.

I'm just supporting my own views of NASCAR here, not why they shouldn't be in GT5.

You're the one claiming there's several TV Shows, magazines, & drivers who hate Nascar. You only produced 2 examples, 1 that's just an ignorant driver whose wikipedia doesn't exactly to make him out as a very well-respected driver.

You're taking a ratio of pro-nascar/anti-nascar stuff in the entire world, and using it to say that since there is more Pro-NASCAR stuff in the world, then there must be more Pro-NASCAR GT fans than not. Entire world numbers don't apply to specific groups of people, it's a general statement.

I'm not saying anything about the people. You don't want Nascars in GT5, yet you're the one whose bringing in this stuff about anti-Nascar trying to connect it. I haven't said a word that more pro-Nascar stuff being related to GT players.

And I'm not talking about the world. I'm talking about the US.

He did something related to Oval Racing at one point, but I can't remember exactly what it was, although, I'd much rather believe someone who has been a lot closer and spent a lot more time in the racing environment at it's highest form than someone on the internet calling him an ignorant fool.

LOL, I've been on an oval circuit, too, quite a few times at Texas World Speedway.

But it doesn't matter if he's had 1 experience. I can still know more about Nascar than he does, and I'm very sure I do.

You said I make poor assumptions.

My assumption is valid, though. I have knowledge about the sport, enough to see his view on Nascar being unprofessional is wrong.

You, though, just see 1 thing, and make an assumption without any real knowledge.

Did I really? If I remember correctly, I said "mainly" not "all".

Doesn't matter. You're still sterotyping, and have no proof.

Well, If I take all the people I've lived around for these past 17 years, that sounds about right.

So, those folks suddenly account for the other million Nascar fans?

That's called sterotyping. But you're starting to get really "good" at it. How many times have you sterotyped them, now? 3? 4?

Think about it, what is the most likely description of those people? Rednecks, or intelligent individuals with college degrees?

Well, let's see. First off, those aren't the only 2 options here for those folks. And 2nd off, you can't prove that either. Some of them might be rednecks, some of them might be millionaires with a Ph D.

You have to know the people first instead of sterotyping them all together.

Rednecks are American. I'm not. There is however, the equivalent of redneck but for people from other countries. I know there's one in Russian.

Doesn't matter if you are or not. You're in America, and you claim Nascar represents the American way of life. So, put 2 and 2 together, there.

Their engineers usually don't actually do a lot of wrenching on the car.

Nascar mechanics/engineers don't do wrenching alone, either.

But mechanics don't just use wrenches. And I can't believe you're a mechanic. The only thing you seem to think mechanics do is wrenching.

You just seem to bash on me for not having solid proof for what I say. In general, there isn't any proof for most of this stuff, in your favor or mine. I'm just using logic and the evidence around me, but you just seem to using the mentality that "if there's no proof, it's automatically wrong".

But here's the thing. Your logic or evidence isn't actually smart logic or actual evidence when you use that evidence to use think the things around apply to the same things elsewhere.

And what's worse is that your "logic" involves people. Your logic says the people around me account for the same people everywhere. That's pretty much what I've said before, sterotyping.

This is getting a bit into personal issues though, lets keep this out.

When someone calls you what you are, you find as a personal insult, but you're throwing personal insults to millions of people when you assume they're beer-guzzling rednecks. And guess what. By thinking that way, you're throwing a personal insult my way as I'm a Nascar attendee as well.

In the end I don't really care if we have a few stock cars in the game, I just don't really like them, so if it was my choice I wouldn't put them in. The rest of the stuff is just defending myself from people who seem to think I'm just another idiots who thinks NASCAR sucks because they turn left and they're domestic.

But what you're defending yourself is just a poor assumption, and you're being called on it.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Can someone prove to me that the majority of GT fans like NASCAR, and that Most NASCAR fans are intelligent people, and that they are very professional, despite showing none of that in their dialect?

I feel as though I'm wasting my time, all I'm getting is "you can't prove that" with 0 reason for me to believe otherwise. If someone can prove to me that I'm wrong, AND that the opposite is true, please do. Otherwise don't bother, it hasn't worked for pages.

I'm not one to leave a debate much, but this is really useless. Even if you don't think my evidence contains any truth, that still brings us back to nothing, since there's been nothing coming from your side of the debate either, except for the fact that NASCAR has a lot of fans.


@Mclaren: I am a mechanic, I work at the local Hyundai/Mitsubishi/Honda dealer. By next May I'll have my ASE certification, right now I'm just on work-based learning from my school. I'm also the best in my class, which is full of....(hint: It starts with an "r")

I posted a picture of a "Boring" shirt on someone's background with the NASCAR logo and nearly started a riot in the classroom.

Putting together a car is literally nuts and bolts. Putting together a car is easy, especially a car that wasn't badly designed and filled with electronics. (much like NASCAR)

It is a lot easier than you think.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

Can someone prove to me that the majority of GT fans like NASCAR, and that Most NASCAR fans are intelligent people, and that they are very professional, despite showing none of that in their dialect?

That's easy to prove...set up a poll...see how many GT fans like NASCAR.

I'm a veteran GT player, and I hate NASCAR, BTW...

 

[nissan tuner]

That's easy to prove...set up a poll...see how many GT fans like NASCAR.

im on it

 

[nissan tuner]

my vote of course is yes

 

[nissan tuner]

my vote of course is yes

 

[nissan tuner]

huh? thats weird.

can a mod lock?

 

[Perfect Balance]

This is for Mclaren. If you really want more proof that I actually work as a mechanic, I'll take a picture of my paycheck stub and erase the "private" stuff.

This should be enough proof that I'm the best in the class though. (no I don't consider myself that smart, just everyone else is stupid.)

 

[Earth]

One of many reasons, the great sound these cars produce

 

[Perfect Balance]

I thought the poll was supposed to be whether or not GT fans liked NASCAR.

 

[McLaren]

Can someone prove to me that the majority of GT fans like NASCAR, and that Most NASCAR fans are intelligent people, and that they are very professional, despite showing none of that in their dialect?

I feel as though I'm wasting my time, all I'm getting is "you can't prove that" with 0 reason for me to believe otherwise. If someone can prove to me that I'm wrong, AND that the opposite is true, please do. Otherwise don't bother, it hasn't worked for pages.

That's just it. You're asking us to prove you're wrong, yet you can't prove yourself you're right. So you make sterotypes.

I'm not one to leave a debate much, but this is really useless. Even if you don't think my evidence contains any truth, that still brings us back to nothing, since there's been nothing coming from your side of the debate either, except for the fact that NASCAR has a lot of fans.

I'm not the one spouting assumptions. Note that I said assumptions. Barely anything you've said is a fact. You have nothing to back it up, and I've been challenging you to from the start. Still waiting.

@Mclaren: I am a mechanic, I work at the local Hyundai/Mitsubishi/Honda dealer. By next May I'll have my ASE certification, right now I'm just on work-based learning from my school. I'm also the best in my class, which is full of....(hint: It starts with an "r").

So, working on those cars allows you make the statements you did on Nascar mechanics?

Putting together a car is literally nuts and bolts. Putting together a car is easy, especially a car that wasn't badly designed and filled with electronics. (much like NASCAR)

Nascars don't work like that. Race cars, in general, do not work like that.

 

[LandMotorsport]

NOOOOOOO. Driving around in circles should never be in GT!!!!
But if enogh people like it y not. Thank god tho that EA has the Nascar rights. So it wound happen anyways

 

[McLaren]

NOOOOOOO. Driving around in circles should never be in GT!!!!
But if enogh people like it y not. Thank god tho that EA has the Nascar rights. So it wound happen anyways

We're not talking about the tracks. We're talking about the cars in general.

 

[Perfect Balance]

That's just it. You're asking us to prove you're wrong, yet you can't prove yourself you're right. So you make sterotypes.

I make guesses appropriate to what I've seen and learned, and the more I learn, the more I believe in them.

I'm not the one spouting assumptions. Note that I said assumptions. Barely anything you've said is a fact. You have nothing to back it up, and I've been challenging you to from the start. Still waiting.

You've actually been assuming I'm wrong about everything because I didn't provide solid proof. I know I'm the one making the "absurd" claims, but I back up my statements the best I can with what I feel is right and true. (not to mention obvious)

Before you say that I haven't been doing a very good job, keep in mind you've done absolutely no job at all. Again, I'm the one making the claims, but it's just as dumb to say someone is wrong without anything to back your statements up.

So, working on those cars allows you make the statements you did on Nascar mechanics?

I um, said that their lack of professionalism was evident in something as simple as calling their engineers "mechanics"
Most engineers would be insulted to be called mechanics.

Nascars doesn't work like that. Race cars, in general, do not work like that.

Race cars, despite the high level of technology involved to design them, are much more simple to take apart and put back together. Much less electronics, much less "luxury" items like carpeting and electronic seats. Race cars are a lot more simple than normal street cars, they are just designed in a completely different mindset, which also requires a lot more knowledge.

 

[nissan tuner]

I thought the poll was supposed to be whether or not GT fans liked NASCAR.

if they do like it, they'll vote yes

 

[Keef]

The only way I see NASCAR being represented in GT is if all the unique tuning adjustments were represented also. And frankly, that would require thorough instruction. I know what wedge is--I put one under my door . But seriously, not many people do, and not many people car to learn. The only place that adjustment would make a difference is on the oval. That adjustment has never been available in GT, and they don't even take the physics involved into account because you can't make that adjustment anyway. It would require some rewiring of the physics engine all the graphics, too, in order to show the adjustment.

It's just not useful enough, I don't think. I'd be uninterested in the oval racing specifics.

 

[LandMotorsport]

well i know but the thing with modern day stock cars is, that not like in formula 1 where the cars are owned by the constructor, stock cars "NASCAR'S" are owned by NASCAR. Including the trucks. So Nascar has the rights for the cars.......EA got the right from Nascar. And only EA will make games that includes them

 

[McLaren]

I make guesses appropriate to what I've seen and learned, and the more I learn, the more I believe in them.

And what you've seen and learned does not always apply to the samething elsewhere, esp. people.

You've actually been assuming I'm wrong about everything because I didn't provide solid proof. I know I'm the one making the "absurd" claims, but I back up my statements the best I can with what I feel is right and true. (not to mention obvious)

What you feel is right and true is not always what actually is right and true.

Before you say that I haven't been doing a very good job, keep in mind you've done absolutely no job at all. Again, I'm the one making the claims, but it's just as dumb to say someone is wrong without anything to back your statements up.

I don't need to provide proof as I'm not the one making the assumptions. I'm not sitting here saying most Nascar fans don't play GT, or are beer guzzling rednecks. I wouldn't say such a thing anyways. I have nothing to prove that, and I would be sterotyping.

However, as you tried to use as an excuse, I use my brain enough to know Nascar does not represent the American way of life.

I um, said that their lack of professionalism was evident in something as simple as calling their engineers "mechanics"
Most engineers would be insulted to be called mechanics.

Doesn't matter. They are correct in calling them mechanics. They fit the definition of mechanic.

Race cars, despite the high level of technology involved to design them, are much more simple to take apart and put back together. Much less electronics, much less "luxury" items like carpeting and electronic seats. Race cars are a lot more simple than normal street cars, they are just designed in a completely different mindset, which also requires a lot more knowledge.

That doesn't mean a race car is easy to build. If so, why are there people on 6speedonline who have spent a month working on their race car? Why did Ruf Auto Centre tell me its took them 3 weeks to re-setup a GT3 factory car from Porsche?

 

[McLaren]

well i know but the thing with modern day stock cars is, that not like in formula 1 where the cars are owned by the constructor, stock cars "NASCAR'S" are owned by NASCAR. Including the trucks. So Nascar has the rights for the cars.......EA got the right from Nascar. And only EA will make games that includes them

Not necessarily. I believe someone else during the GT3 & 4 era had rights to the F1 cars. And yet, we still had them.

 

[Spec M]

Not necessarily. I believe someone else during the GT3 & 4 era had rights to the F1 cars. And yet, we still had them.

They were not official licensed F1 cars. They were created by PD, so they needed no licensing.

What happen to the Poll?

 

[Earth]

They were not official licensed F1 cars. They were created by PD.

What happen to the Poll?

He accidently double posted

Here is the topic with the poll

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=106815

 

[McLaren]

They were not official licensed F1 cars. They were created by PD, so they needed no licensing.

What happen to the Poll?

I know. And I'm hinting that the same can be done towards a Nascar stock car.

 

[Perfect Balance]

And what you've seen and learned does not always apply to the samething elsewhere, esp. people.

It applies the same if it's the same type of people.

What you feel is right and true is not always what actually is right and true.

That makes sense, but I'd REALLY like to know WHY what I'm saying is wrong and what you're saying is right. Believe it or not, I like to learn. I'm not learning anything right now, other than I can't prove my points, which I knew already in the first place.

Or actually, how can you know I'm wrong if you don't know why you're right? When I tell someone they are wrong, I give them evidence and facts ( if possible) to tell them why they're wrong and I'm right. You've got the first part done, please let me know the second part. Keep in mind I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass by saying this, I'm really interested in why I'm wrong.

However, as you tried to use as an excuse, I use my brain enough to know Nascar does not represent the American way of life.

It is relevant to their interests. It hits the spot that makes them happy. I'd say that pretty much qualifies.

Doesn't matter. They are correct in calling them mechanics. They fit the definition of mechanic.

A mechanic is good at fixing cars. An automotive engineer is good at designing cars. Thats a huge difference.

That doesn't mean a race car is easy to build. If so, why are there people on 6speedonline who have spent a month working on their race car? Why did Ruf Auto Centre tell me its took them 3 weeks to re-setup a GT3 factory car from Porsche?

It's not easy to build, but it's easy to put together. I'm specifically talking about someone handing you a part and saying "go bolt it on to the car." That is what a mechanic does. That and diagnose problems. That part is very simple.

 

[Spec M]

I voted no, considering that there will be less cars in the entire game than in GT4, and there are many other series/cars I'd rather see in GT other than NASCAR not to mention it has its own gaming franchise. Im also taking into consideration that for PD to add one thing they have to subtract another, because they can only give us so much. If stockcars do make it in GT5 I wouldn't mind though. But I would rather see something thats not so common in the console world.

 

[Spec M]

The life of the topic of discussion has been absolutely murdered and dragged across a valley of razor sharp thorns.

Good job! 👍

 

[Spec M]

I know. And I'm hinting that the same can be done towards a Nascar stock car.

Yes, that is what I assume is going to happen also. PD is good at what they do, I wouldn't be suprised if a fictional GT Stockcar is better when compared to the ones EA composes when it comes to realism.

 

[Studentdriver]

I have shown that a.) Nascar is broadcast throughout the world in many languages, b.) that Nascar is the most popular event in America, and c.) that Nascar is the second most viewed sporting event on tv in America.

👍....Then what?

Then knowing all this, and that a large portion of GT sales come from North America, we can determine that the inclusion of stock cars would be a viable option for PD.

 

[LandMotorsport]

Not necessarily. I believe someone else during the GT3 & 4 era had rights to the F1 cars. And yet, we still had them.

Well in the versions of GT3&4 that i played they had only the open wheel cars that were fictional!