Need a car now...budget decreased to $7k

  • Thread starter Thread starter CDailey
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What do you mean "wow"?

An SVT Focus will be approaching 100k miles and most places you look are asking north of $7,000. For a 'performance' car that didn't offer much 'performance' 10 years ago, never mind today's standards, that's a bit of coin. And every sub 20k MSRP 'performance' car from around Y2k has been beat on and will be going on its 4th or 5th owner.

If someone says they babied it, changed the oil every 3k, or always kept it in a garage - they're lying. If they say the timing belt has been changed, they're lying. These types of cars have not been taken care of very well. There's exceptions, but I wouldn't gamble on trying to find one.

A Jag owner is male, owns a home, and is middle aged. Typically understands cars require maintenance, knows better than to try DIY repairs, and kept mileage to within the terms of the lease or bought an extended warranty if they financed it.

These cars do not move off of lots very quickly, so you can find a deal. Also, the OP wants a cruiser and the Focus SVT isn't what you'd call comfy. Sure, Jags don't get the best MPGs, but if it were me and I came across a XJR that can be in budget with some haggling - I'd give it a good look. Other premium sedans like the BMW 740il, A6 2.7, or a Benz...no way, those things are nightmares...but the XJ [in black] is a gem if you're looking for boulevard cruiser. (drove one for over 6mo - absolutely loved it)

Old BMW's from the 80's are awesome drivers. You can't argue against that. Hell, for $10,000 you can find a prep'd NASA Spec E30 325is w/spares and have enough $$$ left over to buy a Craigslist trailer & an F150 to tow it with. But that's a topic for another day.

In summary; an SVT Focus would not be a comfy commuter car, it's condition will be questionable, and doesn't offer much performance for the money. As a 2nd car, it would be fun...but there's quite a bit out there that would be less or equally expensive but more enjoyable.

A Jag, BMW or any German/Euro car used with over 85k miles is asking for trouble one way or another. And that's the kind of mileage that will be on these in his price range. They can be nightmares. There's a reason why they were traded in, think about that. They are great cars but not to buy with high mileage and second--or in a lot of cases--third and fourth hand. :D He's much better off with something Japanese or a late 2000's Ford.
 
Any thoughts on a 7th gen Toyota Celica GTS?
 
ZZT231 Celicas are great cars, but Acura RSXs are better in basically every way. Better ride, better interior, better drivetrain, similar handling. All for the same (ish) price on the used market.


And I can say with authority that a 7th gen Celica GTS is absolutely not a car that you want to buy if you still have to learn to drive stick.
 
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You might want to send a PM to Jacoja06. I know he has or had a 7th gen Celica and he absolutely loved it as far as I know.
 
JCE
A Jag, BMW or any German/Euro car used with over 85k miles is asking for trouble one way or another. And that's the kind of mileage that will be on these in his price range. They can be nightmares. There's a reason why they were traded in, think about that. They are great cars but not to buy with high mileage and second--or in a lot of cases--third and fourth hand. :D

That's not strictly true. At least here in Europe, there are few safer places to stick your money into a second hand car than ones with German badges. At that sort of mileage BMWs and the like still feel brand new. Japanese cars will still be working at that mileage (and will continue to work) but start feel a bit ropey.

As for the Jag, the generation posted in the pic are actually supposed to be pretty reliable. Expensive to fix if they do go wrong, but massively less likely to go wrong than a pre-mid nineties Jag.

Then again, $10k in the US seems to get you less used car than the equivalent amount in the UK does, so perhaps at that budget you'd be pushing your luck a bit going for a Jag.

I can't see a BMW being a problem though.
 
JCE
A Jag, BMW or any German/Euro car used with over 85k miles is asking for trouble one way or another. And that's the kind of mileage that will be on these in his price range. They can be nightmares. There's a reason why they were traded in, think about that. They are great cars but not to buy with high mileage and second--or in a lot of cases--third and fourth hand. :D He's much better off with something Japanese or a late 2000's Ford.

When you look at premium brands/models of cars; you have to take into account what type of owner would buy them new.

Many of these cars were leased, and definitely in the case of a Jag, by men age 40+ w/a home. The rest of the cars that were not leased were financed by eventually rolling it into their mortgage, business, or whatever. Generally, they were taken care of and maintained.

They were traded in once the lease was up, once the warranty expired, or when the car's depreciation expense was at a point it made more sense to buy a new car. In accounting terms, the life of a 'business vehicle' can be as little as 3yrs, when in practice, a car is useful much past that. Trade the car in, get screwed on its value while avoiding taxes on unrealized gains, get a new car & immediately write off up to 75% of the book price. If mortgage rates went even lower, refinance and roll the car loan into it.

This was standard practice. Well-to-do people don't just plunk down $60k, nor do they make payments every month at 9.5% - they find cheaper ways to own the car or they lease.

An entry level US car, on the other hand, would not receive such treatment nor would it have been bought in the same manner. Why would someone buy a brand new Ford Focus? Because they can't afford something a bit nicer. It's an appliance. The SVT Focus is even more strange; a Mustang GT was what - a few thousand more? To someone with not a lot of $ or is upside down on their trade; a few thousand is a lot.

So a $300+/mo car payment for 5yrs for someone that doesn't have cash or isn't further along in their career like a Jag/BMW owner is a bit strained. Routine maintenance doesn't occur and the car only sees a shop when a CIL comes on.

I've seen it over and over again; most people with entry-level cars do not take very good care of them b/c they take little pride in them. Something with badge prestige on the other hand, those owners take a bit more pride in them b/c if they didn't care about cars or what they drive - they'd buy an entry level appliance.

A lot of the premium European cars are ****. Saabs are junk, Volvos are worse, and somehow Benz is at the bottom of the totem pole. Audis are hit/miss - the 2.7L & 1.8L cars are turds. 6cyl BMWs are awesome - V8 BMWs are headaches. RWD Jags are awesome - FWD Jags...not so much.

What all these cars have in common are MASSIVE depreciation. A $45,000 BMW 3-series from 2002/3 can be had, today, for $10k and will have less than 100k miles...try closer to 70k. That's what I call a smokin' deal.

Why did they depreciate so much? Look above at the usual buyers of such cars and look at the buyers for entry level cars. For a couple thousand more; an entry level car will have a warranty.a much lower ARP %, and a longer financing term (60mo+). A used BMW will typically only be financed for 36mo and at a higher rate...so monthly out-of-pocket expenses will be lower for the new, yet slightly more expensive, car.

B/C of this, these $10k-ish euro cars do not move off of lots very quickly and this is reflected in the price. The secret is knowing which models, engines, etc to buy and which to avoid. I would avoid a hot-hatch like a hooker w/a sore on her lip regardless of how cheap it is. A 3-series or and XJR; I'd find ways to make a few extra bucks to own it.
 
An older German car may indeed have been well taken care of, but it will eventually need more maintenance, and since it's German, it will cost a metric **** tonne for even the smallest of repairs. That, plus I really don't want to think about what the insurance would be like for a 22 year old male with a supecharged Jaguar or a fairly recent 3 series BMW.
 
BMW 3-Seies are very reasonable to insure, at least they were for me when I checked. In fact, the yearly rate for a 328i was nearly half that of an RSX-S, which is priced in the stratosphere. BMWs are still going to be expensive to maintain, however.

As great as the higher-performance Subarus (WRX, Legacy GT) and Mazdaspeeds look, I'm personally concerned about buying a used car with a turbocharged engine. I may be misguided in that, but they need careful maintenance. I'm tempted by other Mazdas despite once owning one for a week (it had issues so the dealer bought it back), but they tend to rust quite a bit where I live.

The good news is that there are quite a few nice, reliable, fun cars in your price range if you look hard enough. I'd look to 90s and early 2000 Hondas and Nissans, primarily, but quite a bit of awesomeness can be found. You may even want to ask a mechanic if he has any ideas or knows of anyone selling a good car, if you have one you trust.

I'd especially watch for well maintained Preludes, Accords, Civics and Acura TSXs. (If it helps give you an idea on what's out there, I recently test drove a TSX with less than 20K miles and got the price to a little over $17K, which would be a really nice long term car, although I decided to pass for a few reasons.)

I'm personally considering a BMW 328i (can't really believe that), Infiniti G35, Subaru Legacy GT (depending on records) and some others. But even though I'm in a market for those kinds of cars, what really piques my interest is a fairly low mileage Prelude SH. I keep thinking one of those, maybe an 80s BMW and a 70s Mercedes, and finding a lot of time to learn about auto repair.
 
I'd look into an E46 325, RSX, E39 528i IS300, G35, 03+ Accord, Celica, and TSX etc etc Luxury and sport. I think I'd be able to find those cars at around 10k or less.

I buy parts online and go to a local mechanic to get things fixed or do them myself.
 
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An older German car may indeed have been well taken care of, but it will eventually need more maintenance, and since it's German, it will cost a metric **** tonne for even the smallest of repairs. That, plus I really don't want to think about what the insurance would be like for a 22 year old male with a supecharged Jaguar or a fairly recent 3 series BMW.
Your best bet with the BMW is a CPO one. They should still offer you a great warranty coverage on it.
 
What do you guys think about a 2003 G35? I know it doesn't quite meet my MPG requirements, but I think I can give in a little on that one since it meets all my other requirements. Manual or Auto, leather, sedan, and fun to drive.
 
Manuals are hard to find, automatics (the vast majority of 'em) are kinda dull; overall not a bad car though. I considered a couple but was happier in a 325i.
 
What do you guys think about a 2003 G35? I know it doesn't quite meet my MPG requirements, but I think I can give in a little on that one since it meets all my other requirements. Manual or Auto, leather, sedan, and fun to drive.

Meh.

I've never really gotten behind the G35, with exception to the Coupe of course. The existence of the 3-series, even in "regular" trims, kinda overwrites it. Granted, I haven't driven a G35, so what do I know? I'd look hard at both cars, as I imagine the Infiniti is quite the value these days.
 
Thanks for the input. Ill look more into 03ish 3 series.

Here's an oddball...01-03/4 MINI. What do you guys think? Doesn't quite fit the list as its not a sedan, less luxury than any other car so far, and it be by far the slowest car I've considered, but it more than makes up for it in MPGs and (from what I've read over the years) funness to drive. Being 6-9 years old, are they approaching a mileage I should avoid? I assume since they are owned by BMW, they will have a higher than average maintenance cost? Where is Joey D when you need him? Haha.
 
I've been told that the early Coopers aren't friendly on the parts/maintenance front. My guess is that it would be something similar to what you would see on a Volkswagen, but I'm really not sure. Otherwise, by all means, they're considered to be wonderful cars across the board. Of the Cooper/Cooper S owners I know, few ever complain about anything with their cars.
 
It's understandable if you're expecting/willing to put some money into a car, why not something more fun and/or interesting...


They don't let you down. Older ones have less fluff, but less huff: Funny trade-off.

ae-0304.jpg


Forget black: Nothing pulls off stealth like beige.

THIS. My aunt had one of these and it NEVER broke down, no problems at all, and it was pretty much all you needed, maybe not that fun, but very practical
 
You can do far better than one of the very early Minis for your budget. That's not a knock against the Mini specifically, but they hold their value so well that the only ones you could typically get your hands on for your budget would be base Coopers with barely any options with high mileage and/or ones that were driven very hard and then just disposed of.
 
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That does make sense. Kinda sucks because I really like the idea of a MINI. Guess I'll keep looking/researching what's already been mentioned. Anyone have any more suggestions?
 
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I test drove a 2008 G35 a few days ago. It's really nice, I'll give some highs and lows:

Positives:
-- Great power.
-- Very responsive to driver input and handling, at least the short time I drove it.
-- Nicely laid out interior, in materials, design and positioning of controls.
-- Nice driver seat bolstering.
-- The first five gears slide into the gates with a very precise feel. I've read its being compared to the feel of a bolt-action rifle, which is pretty accurate.
-- Unlike recent BMW 3-Series, it not only has a place where a spare tire can fit, but a spare tire. It also has a dipstick.

Negatives:
-- I could feel bumps and a little of the road conditions through the seat, but nothing through the steering wheel. There isn't any fingertip feedback, really.
-- The stick shift vibrated a bit. I don't think it was visible (I wasn't staring at it while driving the car), but I could definitely feel it vibrating. I don't know if that's much of an issue, but it's a little disconcerting.
-- Sixth gear wasn't so easy to find, which was surprising after the precise gating of the other gears. I initially went back into fifth and slowed down a bit before trying again for sixth, for fear of putting it into fourth at too high a speed.
-- The engine noise is kind of a potent, harsh growl compared to the BMW's harmonic rip.
-- The clutch was a little abrupt, but I didn't think it was nearly as bad as some of the reviews I've read. I had no problem with it, but it wasn't nearly as smooth as the 328i's and Acura TSX's.

Neutral observations:
-- I can't think of the proper name, but do you know the extra handles in the roof for passengers to grip? The G35 has one for the driver. I'm not quite sure what to make of that.
-- It has 18" tires, which I'm sure have monstrous grip, but large tires don't do so well in snow and will be pretty expensive to replace.

Overall:
I liked the car, a lot, but I didn't fall in love with it. The lack of steering feedback is probably a deal breaker for me. If I hadn't driven a 328i, I may have been more enthralled, but there's the issue. The G35 has more power, a spare tire, a dipstick, will likely by more reliable and far less expensive to maintain in the long term than a 328i, but I simply smiled more behind the wheel of the BMW.

As an addendum, I also liked a 2007 Acura TSX quite a bit, but I didn't fall in love with it, either, and that was before driving a BMW (I decided to take a 328i for a drive because I was wondering why I felt the TSX was missing something). In short, it is more refined, solid and has much better driver feedback than the G35 but has less power and isn't quite as visceral.

Now for the comment that should make people cringe and want to break out the flame throwers. I might have to drive one again to make sure, but among the post-2005 or so cars I've test driven, the closest one to offering the driver's experience of the BMW is a Mazda 3, at least in S trim. Really. It's bizarre. The thing is a front wheel drive compact with nearly half the power of a G35/37, but as something to take along some twisting back roads, the Mazda is surprisingly good. It's too bad they have rust issues where I live.


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Final edit for price ranges. If you're wondering, the 2008 G35 I drove is priced at $25.5, without a sun/moonroof or nav, but just over 30K miles. The 328i has since been sold, but it was at $25K, had around 40K miles was outfitted with the cold weather package, iPod connection and a moonroof, but the seats were "Leatherette." It was a Certified Pre-Owned vehicle, however. (The same dealer has another certified, manual-transmission 328i with Sport package, iPod, moonroof and under 30K miles for around $27K. Still has "Leatherette," though). The TSX was at 20K miles, had everything but Nav (the only option in those cars), and I negotiated to a little over $17K. That would be a very good deal if I liked the car more. The Mazda 3s I drove a year or so ago was new.
 
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That does make sense. Kinda sucks because I really like the idea of a MINI. Guess I'll keep looking/researching what's already been mentioned. Anyone have any more suggestions?

Have you looked at (slightly) older Subarus?

  • Forrester XT
  • Baja Turbo
  • Impreza WRX Wagon
  • Legacy 2.5 GT

I'd personally love to get a Forrester XT, pretty much a WRX on stilts.
 
Neutral observations:
-- I can't think of the proper name, but do you know the extra handles in the roof for passengers to grip? The G35 has one for the driver. I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

Some cars have them, some don't...I think its to help the frail and/or fat to get out of their cars, rather than just a left/right-hand drive simplicity thing (although one-piece interior roof headliners are usually a lengthy installation job, so it might make sense from a manufacturing standpoint just add the other grab handle from the get-go).

My car has it, but oddly, most Toyota products don't.
 
(although one-piece interior roof headliners are usually a lengthy installation job, so it might make sense from a manufacturing standpoint just add the other grab handle from the get-go).

And the G35 basically is identical to a mirrored V35 Skyline, so...
 
You're not driving your car hard enough if you aren't using the driver's side handle.


Otherwise, I think it's used to aid in getting in/out of the car. Especially if you've got something that is low, and difficult to get in/out of.
 
You're not driving your car hard enough if you aren't using the driver's side handle.

...Uh, ever heard of a manual transmission?

Besides, that's what knees are for.
 
Have you looked at (slightly) older Subarus?

  • Forrester XT
  • Baja Turbo
  • Impreza WRX Wagon
  • Legacy 2.5 GT

I'd personally love to get a Forrester XT, pretty much a WRX on stilts.


I like the Forrester XT, especially with all the STI bits on it...looks amazing. Do not like the Baja or WRX wagon. I like the Legacy. Only problem is finding one around here.
 
Any thoughts on a 01-05 Lexus IS300? From the reviews I've read, it's not quite as good as a 3 series, but then again, it's not quite 3 series price either.
 
Sorry about triple posting, but some things have come up. So...I need a car sooner than I originally planned. My current car is not going to last as long as I thought. I am now looking to get a car in the next few weeks, and pretty much all the requirements listed in the first post have been thrown out the window. The only ones that stay are better fuel economy than 19mpg mixed and decently fun to drive. I don't want anything older than 1998. The first thing that comes to mind is a Miata, but those are going to be very hard to find around here. The only other vehicles that come to mind are Preludes, Integras, and Civics. Any quick suggestions?
 
Toyota Celica?

Last forever and are actually fun to drive. You should be able to find one of the last generation that they made them for less than $7k.
 
Preludes are nice. If you can find on of those that is at least an Si (VTEC would be preferable, though) they would last you quite well. There is also less of a chance that a Prelude you find will be run into the ground.
 
So...this situation keeps yo-yoing. I'm fairly sure I'll be driving a 2003 Mini Cooper S home tomorrow. I went to the local Honda dealership with no intentions of buying anything, and (surprise surprise) they offered me a really good deal that's very hard to refuse. It's got 85k miles. 6 speed manual. One owner, an older couple that only traded it in because the wife couldn't drive a manual. It seems to be in good condition. Interior is a little worn but other than that it looks in really good nick.
 
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