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Discussion in 'Need For Speed' started by FT-1, Aug 19, 2018.
@SestoScudo and it will be called Need For Speed Battle Royal.
I didn't like Payback very much; I only played it 4 times. Yet that was also to do with the fact my brother bought it. He told me to stick to GT Sport instead as I couldn't understand the drifting. Speaking of which, the brake to drift mechanic is extremely dumb and has to go for the next game. I know NFS is not a simulator but it should at least have a plausible drift mechanic similar to real life. Rip the handbrake to kick the rear out, not the brake Ghost.
With FH4 looking to match, or even pass, FH3's marks in terms of sales, love, and critical reception most likely, it's made me think about what's left as competition for FH. Specifically, NFS, and this supposed 2019 game. What it all means for the series.
There's no doubt that the masses want another Underground game. Another crowd wants a return to the beginnings of the series. Really, this is where the problems lie right off the bat. There's no denying that the majority want another Underground/Most Wanted type game. The problem with this, or the 'go back to Hot Pursuit/High Stakes!' idea is that really, all it is doing is pigeonholing NFS as a series that is only able to relive the past, and never do anything that even remotely resembles an original idea. Of course, nostalgia tinted glasses from fans will always come out when you're dealing with a series that has lasted the 20+ years or so that NFS has, but by this point, there's an obvious canyon between having any sort of creativity and just playing the hits, over and over again.
I still remember the filled diapers and meltdowns that came out from Prostreet's announcement from people who wanted yet another game in the Most Wanted/Carbon mold. I still remember people having meltdowns when The Run was announced. Funny then that these games have aged relatively well in the 11 and 6 years they've been out, and represent some of the most original ideas that Black Box made for the series under their tutelage.
Really, I liken NFS by this point to the old high school quarterback who has a sort of deified view and nostalgia for his time as one, and tries to regale the stories of his gridiron exploits to whoever will listen. It reminds him of the time when he was the talk of the town, the top dog. He was something.
In NFS's case, this sort of deification of nostalgia is going both ways, and it's being done by the fans. For as average as Ghost's time with the series has been, at best, the chances of them having an original idea for NFS are getting slimmer by the day. Payback feels like a good mix of both the past, and the present. Underground, and the classic era. I have a feeling we'll just keep yoyo-ing between these two eras for the rest of eternity.
Frankly I don't see FH4 making or breaking this game as odds are those who buy one will buy the other. If FH4 makes a genuinely better NFS in comparison and NFS drops the ball, like not finding it's niche and style, then doubtless FH will pick up what NFS effectively gives them otherwise if NFS remains NFS then FH4 can't touch it short of whoring itself on the altar of NFS which does Forza no favours. At the end of the day we have two distinct games with their own flavours selling to the same audience and as long as they don't try to get too crazy they should be fine until one or other screw up.
I think that no matter how good Horizon does, there will always be NFS. However, the aim and scope of the two games are extremely similar, outside of the story mode of the two - that's the only thing setting them apart in my opinion. Everything else seems to be pretty similar across the board, it's just that Horizon just has so much more polish than what NFS does, and has been that way for a while.
NFS definitely has the customization aspect down, but I really don't feel that's enough at this point as the driving alone in FH already makes it such a better game in comparison. FH4 has already made a better NFS, and NFS has already dropped the ball since 2015 and now they're trying to recollect, and while they've made a decent effort, it still pales in comparison. Even with Forza's lack of customization(which is minor at best), there's nothing that Horizon "can't touch" in my opinion.
What I do like about NFS is that it appeals to the boy racer in me. Ridiculous customization on cars, from head to toe. I did it more for just looking at it than actually driving the cars, and that's somewhere I feel Forza could definitely do better with. I'll always have a spot for NFS, even if I don't agree with a lot of things it does, and will always try to give it a chance - Did that with Payback and I was more pleased than not.
The difference between Forza and NFS is narrative. With the exception of 2 games (NFS Shift) NFS has always been an outlaw racer. It hasn't always hit the formula dead on due to experiment, but from the original to the current you were on the edge of law and always the underdog against a higher force. Forza, even Horizon, has always been a racer for the sake of racing. Where NFS's strengths lie are story (single play) and party play. Horizon is largely the same as the main forza series for single player, with it's greatest strength (more so than NFS of late) is multiplayer. The game that Horizon usurps is Test Drive Unlimited, not NFS.
While the narrative was different, they are both about starting from the bottom and working your way up to the top. I think the main difference to point out would be that you have "bosses" in NFS along the way. I certainly hope Horizon never takes that route, because story wise, they've all been pretty terrible(and horizons isn't even that good either) and would be hard pressed to call that a strength as it's really not its strong point whatsoever in my opinion. However if you're saying that Motorsports and Horizon single player aspect is similar, than I'd say you're completely wrong.
The thing with these games is that the singleplayer aspect is integrated completely into a multiplayer aspect too if you'd like as the main story is one and the same regardless if you play alone or not, while also having a more indept multiplayer aside from that. I hardly play these games online at all, both NFS and Horizon, and going off single-player campaign alone, NFS is bad in comparison. The only way that I can even think that NFS story as a strength is that it's more indepth, but that does it no favors because it's actually just bad in general.
Will NFS take on The Crew/FH4 with some kind of Underground setup thingy with 9999 levels and whatnot.
Big open world map
PVP right away
??? What do you mean by Underground?
Like the Underground series that they had for 2 games?
It would be like that,
Underground 3 but with FH4/The crew 2 setup with 9999 levels
^^^ We can only hope.
I think that there's a definite place in the market for NFS whether FH4, etc, are successful or not. The "outlaw" aspect is the main thing that sets NFS apart, and I think it's an important distinction. It's fun to have a car game that's a little bit GTA but without the killing.
I've played the FH4 demo, and even though it's fun and I'll probably buy the game eventually, it just doesn't give me the same feeling of excitement. I'm putting my old man pants on now, but FH4 is just too "millennial" for me. I can't even pick an avatar, male or female, who isn't wearing skinny jeans. And while the house buying feature is cool, it all comes across a little too much like "The Sims" or some other lighthearted life simulator LOL.
Ghost Games are likely to take a look at Forza Horizon 4 and implement some new concepts from it for NFS 2019 - Since they pretty much did that already in Payback with offroad racing, open world activities and derelicts. Whatever they do, I hope Need For Speed does not turn into a Horizon clone and lose the gritty feel.
As some of you have said, making the protagonist an Outlaw in NFS is what sets it apart from the Forza Horizon series. If each series maintains some distinction, there's no reason why both games can't be successful.
[Cough] Who copied who?
Forza Horizon 2012
or to put it another way
Not entirely related, but the NFS Sub-Reddit seems very bored right now.
It's interesting to note which of the essence posts have the most points as of right now. It seems as though the people disagree with Ghost, and would rather see a return of the cops vs racers style games. And frankly, given that it's been nearly a decade since we last had a competent, nevermind a genuinely good one of those, I'd tend to agree. There's still the question of it having to not just be the NFS franchise itself off and actually bring some new, interesting concepts to the franchise - say what you want about 2010, but it took the classic concept and brought it into the 21st century, and that's a good thing. Also any reason to watch the E3 reveal trailer is good enough for me.
Alternatively, you, EA, you may be an unreliable scumbag of a publisher, but I still don't see any scenario in which you don't have enough competent studios in limbo somewhere, just waiting for you to give them responsibility for a new game. You still have some remnants of Criterion lying around. Ex-Evolution Studios is up for hire again. Get them together, get them working on future classic-spirit NFS titles, have them alternate releases with whatever Ghost happens to be cooking up, and watch the money print itself. Because, trust me, it will. As long as you don't it up with greedy, exploitative mechanics that "don't have a material impact" for your precious shareholders. There's also a joke to be made about how that means the Evo guys will inevitably get fired again, but.. that's not really a surprise in any way, given that they would be dealing with Unicronic Arts, is it? On the other hand, Ghost has somehow survived to see the production of their fourth NFS game..
What I want is the return to style of the critierion NFS games. Mostly exotic cars, minimal customization, no cheesy story, and a focus on the cops-and-robbers style gameplay like Hot Pursuit.
Would agree except I'm in the camp of more customisation. Customisation is something that is generally complementory to a game imo. I'd be a bit annoyed if NFS whent back to Shift (if EA want Shift as a stand alone title then fair enough, just drop the NFS banners and logos) as sim racing NFS ain't
Other than that (add multiple maps or a super massive map) I'd still appreciate a rudamentory story such as you're an anon making waves, earning a rep and facing down challengers and bosses to earn or unlock better cars (would be bloody boring after a time if all you're doing is grinding for and/or buying best from the outset). The multiplayer and end game should be like the burnouts
What I would like is something along the lines of NFS MW (First edition) where you have to go up the list.
Combine it with Underground (1 or 2)
Then the map of (GTA? Midnight club? Something big)
Then also have some TDU2/Midnight club where you can challenge AI people (As online would be optional)
Some perks line (Like FH4/Crew 2)
And physics that slightly more improve on than NFS Payback.
Customization (Like GT Sport)
Then I think you have a nice game.
Your idea would definitely be a "do not buy" for me. I'd be bored to tears.
Yes, I agree that this would be a great formula.
Either that, or go all in on the underground style, focus on tuners for the most part. I just don't want a mishmash like Payback.
Just go one direction or the other.
Change slightly to significantly and I think you have something going.
So you want them to go backwards?
I didn't say they will go backwards, just improve on the customization like full on details. Neon lights, tint, Wing, etc.
Physics as long as it's not like Burnout style full on but not quite the GTS physics.
Well you said like GTS, so that's pretty backwards considering the complete lack of customization in that game lol. I think they have the customization aspect on lock and I don't see any games beating them anytime soon, in my opinion. They should be the ones that other games look at when they need to learn from that area.
I'm sorry but I don't understand your need to have the two options be exclusive. You can drive (and finish the game) with any car you want, so if you want a customized tuner, go for it, if you want a non-customized exotic, go for that... I'm just happy that they give us a choice of both and I hope they continue that, so I can have a customized exotic if I want.
While I agree with you on the principle that the two game styles are only ever as mutually alienating as Ghost wants to make them - Payback is essentially proof of this - merging them together opens up a different can of worms. Peel away the arguments that NFS is "distinctly" about being an "outlaw", that there has to be something that vaguely resembles a F&F story and so on and so forth, and you'd be left with a game that's basically Forza Horizon. Or Test Drive Unlimited. Or The Crew. The point being that, aside from a handful of not-really-game-changing-if-we're-being-honest points, NFS is far from the only game of its kind out there. And while there was potential in Payback, it was also - objectively - the inferior version of all of the above.
As far as I can see, there are three exits from the crossroad NFS is currently at: embrace the past (all of it), step up its game significantly, or do bugger all and live long enough to see itself become the bargain-bin copycat.
And - in an almost M. Night Shyamalan kind of plot twist - the best option NFS has to avoid ending up in a valley of obscurity and irrelevance might just be to embrace the past - but keep the styles separate. The most obvious option being an alternating-releases-each-year kind of deal. One year is a game with deep focus on customisation, the other is a more thrill-of-the-chase game. Taking this route brings with it not just the advantage of not having all your eggs in one basket and NFS being able to properly distinguish itself from aforementioned competition, but both "communities" get exactly the kind of game they want. "If you can't win on a compromise" and so on. Plus, let's not kid ourselves, EA has plenty of competent studios to move around with, and that's before we consider the possibility of them making new acquisitions.
I can understand that everyone has their own preferences on how to play a NFS game and what features make a good one. And would have no problem with them releasing two different styles of games on alternating years. But I just don't understand why it all can't be in a single game and you can choose which options to pursue. It's entirely possible to go through the entire game (of Payback) with never having to touch a single option in the garage. So that's why it's puzzling to me when I hear state that "Less customization" should be a feature of the next game.
If a person is all against customization and the game forces them to use it, then I understand.... examples of this were NFSU2 which had a star-rating system which forced a player to rice out their car. NFSMW05 and Undercover had heat levels which forced you to change, at the bare minimum, the color of your car. So, again, it's not like Ghost has resurrected those bad ideas (bad because they force a player to do something they may not want to do).
So instead of wanting a game that has either tuners or either exotics, or either customization or either not, why not make a game that has both and all choices are completely optional? Oh, wait, they already did... it's called Payback.
Going back to your point about making two different games though Rally, if certain corners of the fan base simply can't stand the option to add a Liberty Walk body kit to their Lambo, then maybe the best solution, from a purely marketing standpoint, is to make two games each with different styles. BUT, this would probably only succeed if they have two different studios working on them. I wouldn't want to see a single studio try to make both, as the quality of both would suffer.
My personal opinion of the idea to make an "old-style" NFS? - It's outdated. It would end up feeling like a very shallow game, because Forza and GT have surpassed that level of simplicity long ago. Forza Horizon already has the formula AND they still add customization on top of it. Throwing an NFS game out there with less content than the previous would not be a sound competitive strategy, again, in my humble opinion.
I'm not disagreeing. As I've said many times before, if we take away the shoddy execution, Payback had potential to be one of the - objectively - best NFS games ever, because it was the first serious attempt since the original Most Wanted at trying to combine the two game styles. And in a way, I do wish they'd have continued working towards that vision, but, as I said, that just exposes an entirely different problem, which is going directly up against mastodons like the Forza Horizon franchise. As you go on to state later in your post, Forza Horizon is already basically the ultimate combined NFS game, to the point where it's pulling sales numbers that rival - if not surpass - NFS in its heyday. And no, that's not a reference.
I'm not saying "defeating" Forza Horizon is impossible, oh no. I'm just saying it's one heck of a task - one I'm not sure they're up for.
..and, if you'd read the entirety of my post, you'd have come across this paragraph. Take a good guess as to what I'm hinting at here:
..not to forget when I said this just last week:
Speaking of which:
..leaving aside the discussion on which of the style extremes is the most outdated, I'd like to present the theory that it's not necessarily about the amount of content - it's about whether or not it's the *right* content. Case in point, NFS Carbon. Ginormous load of content to be found in there. Sold an estimated 4.5 million copies worldwide, across both sixth and seventh generation consoles. Compare that to 2010's Hot Pursuit. Not a lot of "content" in that one, and yet it sold an entire million extra, and, by that extreme group, widely regarded as the last "good" NFS game.
Which brings me on to a bit I didn't see you adress, and a theory of mine: those that are really into combining the two NFS styles have already found their ideal game - someplace else. Again, let's be brutally honest and ask ourselves the question: "what can I do in NFS Payback that games like Forza Horizon 4 aren't already doing better than it?" In other words, why should you settle for NFS if you can have Horizon? Aside from the argument that NFS is also sold on PS4, in which case the question becomes how long you seriously believe EA - being a AAA publisher - is satisfied with only *really* selling on one platform?
Let me put it to you differently: on one single console, Driveclub - which had the wonkiest marketing campaign of all time, had the disadvantage of being a new IP and was basically an "outdated" NFS - managed to sell a grand total of ~2.4 million copies over its lifetime. On the same console (and released just about a year later - which, for the sake of this comparison, is close enough), NFS 2015 shipped ~2.7 million. There's clearly a market for both extremes, especially given that there's basically no competition in the former (and that EA can snap up most of the previous competition in one fell swoop) and the latter is made up only by the hotchpotch that is Super Street - The Game. It's a golden opportunity, not just in terms of keeping the fanbases happy and the franchise financially stable, but, perhaps more importantly, also in terms of keeping it relevant.
I read your whole post, and was simply agreeing with you and restating the truth - that two developers would be needed to tackle two different types of NFS games.
There's a couple of things that separate Forza and NFS. The main thing being cops. The outlaw aspect of NFS sets it apart still. Forza is awfully sandbox'ish as well. I agree that it has loads more content, and the quality is undeniable. But I honestly enjoy the single player experience that a game like Payback has to offer. The argument could be made that Payback still offers a player a greater opportunity to create a unique ride suited to their personality. It's nice to see Forza offering widebody kits in the new game, but it's still pretty limited, whereas in Payback you can do more.
This is just me, but personally, if I were in charge of all things NFS, I would tell Ghost to stick with the Payback formula. Keep single player, keep a story, keep giving us characters to role-play. Keep the structure of the game in tact. KEEP COPS. Give us more variety of events that include them. Use the progress made on Payback to build something better, rather than reinvent everything like they keep doing. DON'T give us 400 vehicles, use resources to pick the creme of the crop and then give us even more options to customize them. Fix brake to drift. If they did those things they still wouldn't sell as much as Forza, but there's a lot of money to be had out there and even EA knows that a piece of the pie is better than none of the pie.
To be honest, the stories are so forgettable that I really don't even pay attention to it while I'm playing. The way I play the two end up being the same because of that.
As for customization, I agree. I was hoping this iteration would be the one where they really ramp things up. While they added a fairbit of new widebody kits, they also had to focus on the upgrade kits for offroad vehicles as well. Because of that balance, it kinda sucks for those that don't really use the offroad vehicles. If they had a much smaller list like Payback, I'm sure we could have seen more, but having so many vehicles can be a blessing and a curse it seems. Paybacks saving grace is it's customization, but only that in my opinion as other games seem to just outshine it in too many area's.