Need Setup Help

[CyKosis1973]

Eh, actually, I'm not too sure about the LSD now…I always thought that higher meant looser…but it doesn't seem to be the case anymore…I'm so confused by the LSD. Awaiting slap on the wrist from MCH.

I find that high INT numbers reduce the cars ability to turn. So I usually set the INT lower than anything else. However, you may want to setup your suspension so that the car is very loose and prone to oversteer and then increase your INT to tame it. Horses for courses and really driver dependant.

I'd try Krenk's suggestion above. Although my OCD would dictate that I'd run 14/28/7, if it's not stopping quick enough or is a bit sloppy under braking, then I'd bump it to 14/28/14. Or somewhere thereabouts.

Eh, that works, but it's better with actual numbers. Taking that last bit into account, the basic gearbox settings should be:

Final Gear- 3.650/2.500
Top Speed Autoset- 112mph

The only difference between the way we do gearboxes is the initial setup. You tend to do Max Speed Left, then FG Left. I tend to set FG Right, then Max Speed Left. From what I've driven, your* initial setup produces a lower FG and better top speeds and mine* a higher FG and better acceleration. Read above RE: Horses for Courses.

And RE: Tyre Wear, other than what OnBoy has already suggested, the best thing you can do to preserve tyres is to moderate your driving...

{Cy}
* - I know neither method belongs to "us" and are common amongst the community

 

[Onboy123]

The only difference between the way we do gearboxes is the initial setup. You tend to do Max Speed Left, then FG Left. I tend to set FG Right, then Max Speed Left. From what I've driven, your* initial setup produces a lower FG and better top speeds and mine* a higher FG and better acceleration. Read above RE: Horses for Courses.

Apparently, if you have a lower final, your car accelerates that bit faster than if you had a higher one, but since this is all just what I've been reading, I could be wrong. However, when dealing with low power cars like these, it does matter, hence the mild OCD with getting the gearbox just right from my end.

 

[Johnnypenso]

In my experience, tire wear is less about the tune and more about smooth driving. You can tune all you want, get a perfect car, but if you overdrive it you'll wear the tires out prematurely. I've found that softer brake balances help, as a lot of tire wear is from heavy braking. I often run with 1/1 or 2/1 or 1/2 in long, tire wear races, where pit stops are necessary.

Driving style is also key and if aggressive is your style you need to adjust it both for better lap times and better tire wear. Aggressive is rarely, if ever, fast on GT5. Makes for lots of tire smoke, a few cool powerslides but slower lap times. Smooth is the way to be fast in GT5, and also better for tire wear. Tire squeal=tire wear in GT5, so any time you kick the back end out or slide out from the apex on a corner you are excessively wearing the tires with no lap time gains. The less squeal the better.

Once tire wear is involved in a race, your objective is to do some testing and see how far you can go between pit stops. Given that on most tracks a pit stop is 30 seconds or so, it's awfully difficult to make that up on track with fresh tires. Do some long runs and see how far you can go before your lap times fall 3-4 seconds. Don't wait until the car is uncontrollable or 6-7 seconds down before changing tires, unless it's that one extra lap to get you to halfway for example. Some time put into tire wear testing will often result in leaping ahead of many faster drivers who wear out their tires too quickly.

So listen to the suggestions above because it all sounds like good info, find the best tune you can, and drive smoothly without a lot of drama and you'll have a good finish.

 

[Onboy123]

Eh, the thing only has 276hp, it'll be extremely hard to get violent with it, you realise. But yea, take all of what Johnny says into account, he knows a damn slight more about endurance races than I do.

Anyway, any word on race length?

 

[JohnyPiston]

OK, what button did NizmoDr3 press to get all this help? In all the time I have been a member of this site this is a first for me. Normally requests are met with firm "learn to use the search function" retorts! If all new members were treated like this, and the Drag racing guys stopped all the infighting, this site would truly be my piece of heaven!

Nice work here guys ...and I have taken all this advice onboard myself especially the transmission stuff. Thanx!

 

[NizmoDr3]

Eh, the thing only has 276hp, it'll be extremely hard to get violent with it, you realise. But yea, take all of what Johnny says into account, he knows a damn slight more about endurance races than I do.

Anyway, any word on race length?

This is still a pre-season series. I guess the creators are still trying to iron out all the creases before the official series runs. There's no word yet on race length, but I believe at a pre-season session run in Monaco a couple of weeks back, the first two races were 10 laps each, with a final 3 lap sprint race.

 

[Onboy123]

OK, what button did NizmoDr3 press to get all this help? In all the time I have been a member of this site this is a first for me. Normally requests are met with firm "learn to use the search function" retorts! If all new members were treated like this, and the Drag racing guys stopped all the infighting, this site would truly be my piece of heaven!

Nice work here guys ...and I have taken all this advice onboard myself especially the transmission stuff. Thanx!

He just got lucky that he found a car with not many tunes for it as well as the fact that Adrenaline was asleep.

That and the fact that I wanted to help since I wanted to take up some kind of series but can't actually get in on one that doesn't require me to be up at 2AM in the morning, so helping is the best I can manage.

 

[NizmoDr3]

He just got lucky that he found a car with not many tunes for it as well as the fact that Adrenaline was asleep.

That and the fact that I wanted to help since I wanted to take up some kind of series but can't actually get in on one that doesn't require me to be up at 2AM in the morning, so helping is the best I can manage.

Well thank you for the effort Onboy. Maybe I should hire you as the test driver and cheif mechanic

 

[JohnyPiston]

And Nizmo ...howzit bru! ;-)

 

[NizmoDr3]

And Nizmo ...howzit bru! ;-)

Tsup Jonny ...
You also looking for a job??? lol

 

[Johnnypenso]

Eh, the thing only has 276hp, it'll be extremely hard to get violent with it, you realise. But yea, take all of what Johnny says into account, he knows a damn slight more about endurance races than I do.

Anyway, any word on race length?

I ran in an endurance race a while ago where I shared my tune with a couple of other drivers. I was able to get 18 laps on my tires and did a one stop strategy in a 30 lap race. One of the other drivers barely got 10 laps and his tires were near bald and he had to do a 2 stopper. Exact same tune, and the driving made all the difference. And my laps were faster laps too, so it wasn't a question of going slow and saving the tires, it was just a question of driving as smooth as possible, with a good tune, and avoiding tire squeal when at all possible.

The tune is important as well, as you want something that is fairly neutral. An oversteery tune will tend to wear out the rears more and understeery vice versa, but it's best to do some longer runs to make sure tire wear is balanced, which is also very important. If in doubt, favour the rears slightly. It's much easier to drive an understeering car late in a run than an oversteering one.

 

[Onboy123]

I made sure already, his current tune in the OP is very much in favour of the rear tyres. The front, especially the right front tyre, is taking up almost all the strain. In terms of laps, it can do 9 laps before it feels a bit crappy to drive, but can last the full 10 laps, but you'd be 3 seconds down the fastest time even if you drive under qualifying pace.

Johnny, would a level spring rate setting help tyre wear? It's currently 7.5/5.0, if it's taken up to 7.5/7.5 or there about (maybe 7.5/7.0), would it make for a more consistent handling car (in general)?

 

[NizmoDr3]

I ran in an endurance race a while ago where I shared my tune with a couple of other drivers. I was able to get 18 laps on my tires and did a one stop strategy in a 30 lap race. One of the other drivers barely got 10 laps and his tires were near bald and he had to do a 2 stopper. Exact same tune, and the driving made all the difference. And my laps were faster laps too, so it wasn't a question of going slow and saving the tires, it was just a question of driving as smooth as possible, with a good tune, and avoiding tire squeal when at all possible.

The tune is important as well, as you want something that is fairly neutral. An oversteery tune will tend to wear out the rears more and understeery vice versa, but it's best to do some longer runs to make sure tire wear is balanced, which is also very important. If in doubt, favour the rears slightly. It's much easier to drive an understeering car late in a run than an oversteering one.

Thanks for the advice Jonny ...

 

[Johnnypenso]

I made sure already, his current tune in the OP is very much in favour of the rear tyres. The front, especially the right front tyre, is taking up almost all the strain. In terms of laps, it can do 9 laps before it feels a bit crappy to drive, but can last the full 10 laps, but you'd be 3 seconds down the fastest time even if you drive under qualifying pace.

Johnny, would a level spring rate setting help tyre wear? It's currently 7.5/5.0, if it's taken up to 7.5/7.5 or there about (maybe 7.5/7.0), would it make for a more consistent handling car (in general)?

Thanks for the advice Jonny ...

To be completely forthright Onboy, my approach to tuning is to simply find balance and the fastest possible tune (balanced) and then adjust my driving for tire wear. Most of my tunes end up within a certain range of spring rates based on the compound. For Comfort tires I usually end up at 35-40% of max spring rates, Sports tires 40-50%, and Racing tires 50-60% adjusted for weight balance of course. If a car is heavier in the front it gets more front spring. Heavier in the rear gets more rear spring, usually closely in relation to the difference in weight front to back. Some cars are different and work better outside those ranges but I found most cars are pretty predictable that way.

Don't know what the balance of this particular car is, but if it's 60/40 then 7.5/5.0 might be a suitable starting point for Comfort tires or maybe Sports Tires but if the back end is quite loose then certainly I'd try stiffening up the back end first to see if I can get balance that way. Stiffen up the dampers to go along with the increased spring rates in the back and lower the ARB accordingly. Also depends on where it's loose too. If it's loose on entry you might adjust the brake balance to favour the front with some more braking.

 

[Onboy123]

The car in question has a 53/47 balance, so maybe a slight bias towards the front will be enough? It's not terribly snappy, if anything, it behaves exactly as a low powered road car on slicks should behave.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm guessing around 450PP? On slicks it should be on rails I'd probably start at those exact numbers, 53% of the front max spring rate and 47% of the back and work from there.

 

[Onboy123]

I'm guessing around 450PP? On slicks it should be on rails I'd probably start at those exact numbers, 53% of the front max spring rate and 47% of the back and work from there.

Mmhhmm. And it is. I see, alright, pass the calculators over.

 

[NizmoDr3]

Ok quick test update ... tried all setting tips given to me and I was still running mid to high 1:09's. I reverted to my original setup and did an endurance test. Was running mid to high 1:09's. Taking Jonny's advice on the 2 second a lap rule I pitted on lap 11. On my second stint I was running high 1:08's to low 1:09's till lap 17, when it all wen't pear shaped. I did notice that most corners on GVE reverse are left handers, which wore out my outside tyres faster. Probably had 40% on outside Tyres when I pitted compared to about 60% on the inside tyres. Why would the outside tyres wear out faster and why would my second stint be more competitive?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Weight transfers to the outside tires during cornering in real life and on GT5 and so they wear faster. You probably had a better stint for a couple of reasons The more you drive the car, the better you know it's subtle nuances and the more of a rythmn you develop in cornering/braking etc. The more you drive it, the closer you'll get to it's absolute limits in terms of tire wear and lap times. Another reason could be fuel consumption. The less fuel you carry the better lap times and tire wear you'll have. Never fill up in a pit stop unless you need fuel to complete the race.

And I believe I suggested 3-4 seconds, not 2 seconds

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sorry for the double post. Curiousity got the better of me, so I dusted off the back of the garage, found one of these cars and tuned it up to the specs I saw listed early on. After a couple of short runs and a couple of small adjustments I tried a long run.

Laps 1-7 1:07.9-1:08.3
Laps 8-11 1:08.4-1:09
Laps 12-14 1:09-1:09.6
Laps 15 1:10.2
Lap 16 1:10.9

By this point I was at around 10% on the rears and control was becoming more difficult. If it was a 35 lap race I might try and ease my pace a bit for a few laps and get to lap 18. For an 19-30lap race, 2 stops. For 18 laps or less, 1 stop, pending full testing of course.

If you want the tune I can post it, but it's pretty basic. I do have to head out to work for a while though so let me know and I'll post it later if need be.

But I can tell you this, I had the brake balance at 1/0

 

[NizmoDr3]

Sorry for the double post. Curiousity got the better of me, so I dusted off the back of the garage, found one of these cars and tuned it up to the specs I saw listed early on. After a couple of short runs and a couple of small adjustments I tried a long run.

Laps 1-7 1:07.9-1:08.3
Laps 8-11 1:08.4-1:09
Laps 12-14 1:09-1:09.6
Laps 15 1:10.2
Lap 16 1:10.9

By this point I was at around 10% on the rears and control was becoming more difficult. If it was a 35 lap race I might try and ease my pace a bit for a few laps and get to lap 18. For an 19-30lap race, 2 stops. For 18 laps or less, 1 stop, pending full testing of course.

If you want the tune I can post it, but it's pretty basic. I do have to head out to work for a while though so let me know and I'll post it later if need be.

But I can tell you this, I had the brake balance at 1/0

U will take any setup help I can get ... the only reason I pitted within 2 seconds is cuz the car started getting pear shaped for me. Maybe I should try out different cars and find one that suits my style???

 

[Jkinealy]

Change that ballast and are you running on abs?

 

[NizmoDr3]

Change that ballast and are you running on abs?

Change the ballast to what? ABS 1

 

[Jkinealy]

Take of the weight all together and move it to 25-30 on the rear because you can actually move the weight without adding weight, and try it with abs off there is a thousand cars and abs hints braking performance on certain cars.

 

[Onboy123]

the only reason I pitted within 2 seconds is cuz the car started getting pear shaped for me. Maybe I should try out different cars and find one that suits my style???

The races are 10 laps long right? You can do the full race on one set of tyres, or do a pit and run slightly faster times.

 

[NizmoDr3]

The races are 10 laps long right? You can do the full race on one set of tyres, or do a pit and run slightly faster times.

1 Mandatory pit stops on the longer races so I might have an advantage on that. Race at GVE could be longer ...

 

[NizmoDr3]

Sorry for double post .. but I just git word that first two rounds are 15 laps each on racing medium and soft tyres and last sprint race is 6 laps

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'll fire up the PS3 and grab that tune, but at 15 laps you're golden. If no pit stops you should be able to go all the way on RS tires. If you have to use a pit stop and each compound, I'd do about 2-3 laps on the mediums then switch to softs.

Someone mentioned ABS off. While I myself normally run with ABS off, I wouldn't suggest switching to it suddenly right before a race, especially on GVE as that first corner is a bit tricky without ABS in most cars. Plus when you're running near anyone you lose the sound and if you can't hear your tires with ABS off, it's tough to stay in control most of the time, for me anyway.

Chassis and Engine Refresh
Weight Reduction 3 and Window Weight Reduction
ECU
Sports Air Filter
Catalytic Converter Sports
Titanium Racing Exhaust
All other Transmission, Drivetrain, Suspension upgrades
Ballast 52kgs @ 50 for a 52/48 Weight Distribution
Engine Limiter 97.1%

Transmission in this order:

"Reset" transmission
Top Speed 250 km/h

1-3.456
2-2.276
3-1.676
4-1.319
5-1.059
6-0.870

Then Final Gear Ratio to 4.475. You'll have to set first gear up for launch. I never a launch but set it roughly where I thought it might end up. Also I'd test for drafting as well. Take it to the track and find your top speed at the end of the straight. Then take it to the test track if you have it or Lemans if you don't and get it up to top speed and make sure there's at least 20 km/h headroom for the draft. If necessary, adjust the final gear ratio.

Ride Height - -15/-15
Springs - 10.3/9.2
Front Dampers - 10/7
Rear Dampers - 8/7
ARB - 2/3
Camber - 1.5/1.0
Toe - 0.0/0.0
LSD - 15/20/5
Brakes - 1/1 Note: I did do a run starting with 1/0 and then switched to 1/1 a little past halfway and this was ideal but you can only do it with the DFGT as far as I know. If you have the DFGT that's what I'd do.

Alternately you can try this:

Toe - -10/+.05
Rear ARB Only - 2 instead of 3
All else the same. This makes the car a little more lively but a little less predictable. I like predictable so I prefer the first version and it got me to 16 laps going pretty much full out most of the time.

Hope it helps. Remember this is a set up designed to go for a long, stable run with minimal tire wear and good balance, while remaining that way until the tires are nearly bald. It's not a hot lap set up which would be much looser and rotate a little better. It'll require some patience not to overdrive the car and stay within it's limits and if you do, you should have no trouble running 10 laps in the 1:08's before any real tire degradation sets in.

 

[Onboy123]

I like how discussions went from talking about the tune to talking about driving. Come on, it's all well and good that he's adapting towards a smoother style, but we are here to help as tuners, so let's try and do some more of that part as well eh?

 

[NizmoDr3]

Ok been doin more testing and I've tried the BMW 135i within the regs... best time 1:08:809 ... car feels better than the skyline