New Challenge!

[cestcertaindira]

Greetings! In the spirit of keeping things interesting, and following along with Clarkson's sub-9 minute attempt on the Nürburgring in a diesel Jag, I thought it might be fun to set up a little challenge:

See who can go the fastest around the 'Ring in a stock, sub-300BHP car. Tyre limitations are sports or normal only, no modifications whatsoever other than those. This can be any car whose power is less than 300BHP before an oil change (some may bump every so slightly over).

And, to get things started, I'll post my first time:

'89 Nissan 300ZX 2 Seater, 262BHP, 51xxx miles, Fastest so far is an 8'33.412.

Let the challenge BEGIN!

 

[Austin343]

I'm always up for GT4 challenges. 👍 I have a couple questions, though. Do you want the laps to be run in GT Mode or Arcade Mode, or does it not matter? Also, which of the many different horsepower figures should we use? The settings and garage list screens are probably the best, but it's good to check. Also, I assume we're using standard OLR rules for clean laps (2 tires on track, rumble strips are track, etc.)?

Anyway, I ran this time in arcade mode time trial, but GT Mode shouldn't be any different because it's a new car. If you want me to re-run it, I will.

Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02, S3 tires, 293 HP on Arcade Mode race screen (you know, shows the car's name, power, and weight; also, it showed 297 HP on GT Mode garage list screen) got me a 7'33.313 on my third lap. A lot of work could push me under 7'30, but that would be hard. However, a sub-7'32 would not be too much work. By the way, I tried a lap with N3s and could imagine getting a 7'50 on a clean lap, but the lap was so mistake- and off-riddled that I only managed a 7'53.9.

Sorry for jumping straight to probably the best car eligible. I'm certainly up for doing laps in more cars than this. I need something to occupy myself in GT4 now that the WRS is over and I've reached my other goals (see my signature).

Edit: Heh, never mind what I said about the RX-7 being the fastest. I did both of these laps in GT Mode.

Honda NSX Type R '02, S3 tires, 295 HP on garage list screen => 7'24.669.

And in keeping even more with the Top Gear spirit:

Jaguar E-Type Coupe '61, S3 tires, 269 HP on garage list screen => 8'01.916.

I tried fitting Standard tires to the E-Type (only Jaguar with under 300 HP) to get a bit closer to the 9 minute mark, and found out I had to use N1s to get an 8'55 with a couple offs.

 

[cestcertaindira]

WOW, you're definitely faster than me...

As far as rules go, I didn't want this to be too strict. I was thinking that this could be done in either Arcade or GT mode, and that the HP figures should be from what the selection screen/garage display. If the car puts out 303BHP, I'm not really that concerned. Also, as far as tyres go, I think it should be whatever suits the car ie a Nissan Silvia Q (S13) might actually run the Ring better with N2s on it than it would with S3s as you get a little more oversteer and hence better drifting.

I would say that the best way to do it is thus: post the car, BHP/torque, weight, and tyre type along with the time. There are no "winners" here, only really fast guys like you, and Captain Slow himself, me!

So that being said, thanks for joining in! I'm working on a spreadsheet of all the cars I'm testing right now. Should have this posted some time by the middle of the month...

 

[Austin343]

Keep in mind that the cars I drove were much, much faster than your aging and underpowered 300ZX. I'm good at this game, but that's certainly not the only factor here! Anyway, I'm glad to see the rules are relaxed and more in the "fun" than "competitive" spirit. I'm kind of used to more serious challenges, which is why I was asking all those questions. I just hope that someone else besides us two has some fun with this - GT4 challenges have not been faring well lately in terms of interest. Everyone else seems to be absorbed in GT5P's IFTC and WRS events.

Your logic is flawed, however, concerning the effect of tires on performance. While you would indeed get more oversteer on N2s than S3s, the decrease in grip between tire grades has much more effect than the difference in the car's behavior. Even if the car does oversteer more, the lower front grip means that cornering speeds will still be lower. However, it is occasionally effective to use, say, an S3 front and S2 rear tire combination instead of S3s on both ends if the car understeers badly.

 

[cestcertaindira]

Haha, funny but you just reminded me! I was in a {insert big-box retailer name here} yesternight and almost bought a PS3 and GT5. At last moment I decided that the ~$375 I would spend would be better served going toward a down payment on my next motorcycle, haha. Hoping this will come in as a Festivus gift...

Now, back on topic: Yes, you're right about the tyres. I suppose for me, at least, the logic somehow better suits my driving style of "mash the buttons and see how it goes". With that S13 Q, it meant more drifting and sideways driving than anything else.

The other reason I've been using '80s sports cars is, in a way, I'm trying to recreate the Cheap Coupés for £xxxxx!

Anywho, going to bed soon, but hoping that more people will post to this. C'mon y'all, this is an easy one!

 

[Car(e)less]

First post on this forum for me... I registered just for this challenge.

So I tried the same car that cestcertaindira used, but after the oil change I get 279 hp... well anyway, I normally avoid cars like this like the plague because of their weight, but I love driving underpowered cars on the ring so I thought I'd give it a spin. Considering this is the first time I drive this car I'm doing pretty well, only that I haven't yet managed to do a completely clean lap. I'm driving on S2's and my best time so far (with 3 off's) is a 8:11:062, although I'm confident I can get this car under 8:06 with some more practice. With S3's probably even under the 8:00 mark, but boy is that car an understeering pig. I'll try some more and see if I can finally post a clean lap with this car.

So I finally have a clean lap, and there's still room for improvement, as I've had to slow down to avoid offs at Eschbach and Galgenkopf, and didn't take the Karussel all that good, only with the inner tires in the banking...

Nissan '89 300ZX 2Seater - S2: 8:06:972 --- 274hp as the effect of the new oil weared off...

I also tried the NSX R '02 on S3's and I got a 7:35:321 on my first truly clean lap. Don't know where to find 11 seconds in that car, although with more clean laps in I'll probably find at least 5 of them. Problem is I don't like the handling of the MR cars in general, especially when they're stock as you can't alter the suspension to work against some tendencies every MR exhibits to some the degree.

 

[2078TM]

Hey guys, decided to give this a try

I was looking through what I own and ran across the Ford RS200. Thought it might be good; although a bit down on power (263HP) it does have AWD and is essentially a homologation special. It proved to be very easy to drive - but probably due to the fact that it is way underpowered for the chassis. After the third clean lap did a 8:16.232 on S3's.

Then I decided to sort my cars by power and show power to weight ratio - by far the best was the Lotus Elise (forget which version). But I forgot what evil little things they are - way faster than the RS200 in cornering and acceleration but close to impossible to keep it on the pavement, but the deal killer was the very low top speed - never completed a lap.

My third car was the Opera Performance S2000 (does this count as a stock car?). Very sweet - as long as you remember that the rear likes to come around. Best lap was a 7:23.729.

I just realized I didn't note the HP for the Lotus and the Honda but I think the Lotus was in the 260's and the Honda was maybe 270-290

 

[VEXD]

Austin, that NSX time is quick 👍
I had a warm up lap then a flyer and only came up with 7'28.

I might come back to this tomorrow, I can't resist this track.

👍

 

[Austin343]

Thank you. I did three laps, the third being the 7'24. If I remember correctly, the second lap was 2-4 seconds slower, putting it near yours. So you should be on pace for a lap like mine. Although my lap was right on the edge of being clean; the car skittered to the inside more than I expected under braking for Mutkurve and the right inside wheel may have briefly left the rumble strip at the apex, but I couldn't catch it in photomode. Of course I can just redo it if it's too close... I love the car's handling and it wouldn't be a chore at all to beat the iffy lap.

By the way, do you have GT5P? And even if you don't, do you still play GT4 much anymore? Rustiness is always a big factor for me; I'm inevitably slow for a while after a vacation.

I've tried some other cars, too. 2078TM, assuming you didn't delve well back into the 100-something HP cars, your Elise wasn't stock. The highest HP of any of them is the Motorsport version, which has "only" about 200 HP. But at 700 kg, it's a handful. I also tried a car from each drivetrain (except RR).

Lotus Motorsport Elise '99, 201 HP (arcade), 700 kg, S3, 7'35.874. This car has no "feel" for me. That is, I have no idea whether I've taken a turn fast or slowly, and am not very good at making adjustments during the turn like I do with other cars. So the 7'35 might be horribly slow or it could be reasonably fast. I just don't know.

Nissan 300ZX 2seater '89, 276 HP (arcade), 1550? kg (didn't write it, just a guess), S3, 7'51.607. With N2 tires for more realism, 8'23.246. You're right, Car(e)less, it is a piece of crap. Oh well.

Alfa Romeo 147 GTA, 247 HP (arcade), 1300ish kg (again didn't write it), S3, 8'10.585. Doesn't handle all that well; seems to have a stiff suspension.

Ford Focus RS, 212 HP (arcade), 1050 kg, S3, 8'01.412. Tried it when I remembered its light weight, and it is indeed faster than the Alfa because of it.

Nissan Skyline GT-R '99, 300 HP (GT mode, no oil change), 1550? kg, S3, 7'42.476. Definitely made me recognize the "water of holy Nissan" I've heard mentioned in various places on GTP. Unbelievably stable and has none of the 4WD understeer that plagues almost all non-Skyline models with that drivetrain.

 

[raz_10]

Hey all:
The Green Monster's not my favorite track.
But here is my first try: ( Two laps only for each car)

Honda NSX Type S '97, SS tires, 276 BHP, 1320 Kg. 7'48.477

Two more cars tested:

Garaiya ('02), SS tires, 201 BHP, 8'00.256
RX-7 Type-R Bathurst-R ('01), SS tires, 290?bhp, 7'40.295

 

[VEXD]

You're right, I was rusty... well, drunk as a skunk and tired.
I've had another go today, fresh faced and sober.

Honda NSX Type R '02, S3 tires, 295 HP on garage list screen => 7'21.265

That was my third lap. Difference being, I can actually see today.

The S2000 offers similar power, but I doubt will yield the same kind of times.

What's quicker than an NSX-R for 300 BHP?

Hmmm........

👍

 

[cestcertaindira]

I can see from some of these lap times that I've got a lot of work to do on the 'Ring. The fastest I've gone round it so far is a 7'27" and that was with 2 offs in a car with considerably more than 300BHP.

How are you guys so fast?

 

[Austin343]

We've played the game a lot... most of us have experience in OLR competitions (for me only sort of, because I lack a replay verification device more sophisticated than video on an old digital camera), and I suspect both 2078TM and VEXD have played since the release date. I only got the game last year and have only played it seriously - that is, actually doing challenging races rather than just screwing around in Arcade Mode and giving everything turbos for the GT Mode events - since earlier this year. I do play a lot, though, and both the race events here and my personal goals for the game, like max A-Spec points and completing the missions cleanly, have made me a much better driver. Not to mention that all of us have done a lot of laps on this track, and essentially know it by heart, VEXD especially, as he will attest.

Edit: Honda NSX Type R '02, 291 HP (arcade), 1270 kg, S3, 7'20.908. Whew, only just managed to sneak past VEXD, and it took a lot more than three laps this time! I kept getting the dreaded Nurburgring syndrome, in which you push too hard trying to make the first part of the lap perfect, at the expense of practicing the latter part of the course. I made some really stupid mistakes on good laps, too, like touching two wheels in the grass in a straight-ish bit between T8 and T9 and skidding off into the guardrail while far ahead of my ghost, or taking one of those really fun turns between T7 and T8 way too fast and flying off the black stuff. Obviously, VEXD, you can beat your time by at least the 0.4 difference between us, but if you'd like, I can always take the aforementioned terrible video of my lap on my CRT TV (which early in this session lost its right side speaker, so I've been playing with no sense of where sounds are coming from, which is essential on this track!). And to answer your question, my guess is that the answer is "nothing."

 

[raz_10]

I also gave this a one lap try
Honda NSX Type R '02, 291 HP (arcade), 1270 kg, S3 and managed 7'26.350

 

[cestcertaindira]

We've played the game a lot... most of us have experience in OLR competitions (for me only sort of, because I lack a replay verification device more sophisticated than video on an old digital camera), and I suspect both 2078TM and VEXD have played since the release date. I only got the game last year and have only played it seriously - that is, actually doing challenging races rather than just screwing around in Arcade Mode and giving everything turbos for the GT Mode events - since earlier this year. I do play a lot, though, and both the race events here and my personal goals for the game, like max A-Spec points and completing the missions cleanly, have made me a much better driver. Not to mention that all of us have done a lot of laps on this track, and essentially know it by heart, VEXD especially, as he will attest.

Edit: Honda NSX Type R '02, 291 HP (arcade), 1270 kg, S3, 7'20.908. Whew, only just managed to sneak past VEXD, and it took a lot more than three laps this time! I kept getting the dreaded Nurburgring syndrome, in which you push too hard trying to make the first part of the lap perfect, at the expense of practicing the latter part of the course. I made some really stupid mistakes on good laps, too, like touching two wheels in the grass in a straight-ish bit between T8 and T9 and skidding off into the guardrail while far ahead of my ghost, or taking one of those really fun turns between T7 and T8 way too fast and flying off the black stuff. Obviously, VEXD, you can beat your time by at least the 0.4 difference between us, but if you'd like, I can always take the aforementioned terrible video of my lap on my CRT TV (which early in this session lost its right side speaker, so I've been playing with no sense of where sounds are coming from, which is essential on this track!). And to answer your question, my guess is that the answer is "nothing."

Now I really feel like Clarkson! I've been playing this game on and off since '05, but only get into it seriously during the winter, when it's less sensible to go out on the motorcycle in the lovely NJ winter...

So, in a sense, I could still be seen as somewhat of a n00b with the 'Ring, as I generally eschewed this track for shorter races.

Now I'm motivated to try to do it under 8 minutes. Wish me luck!

 

[Car(e)less]

I've done quite some laps on the ring in a number of stock MX-5's (any NA model) trying to get a time under 9 minutes on S2's and I can tell you it was very rewarding finally getting a time under 9 minutes, I think my fastest clean attempt is somewhere at 8:54 but I can't look that up at the moment. I've still got the replay tho. I think it's an ideal car to train at the ring as it has a very neutral handling. Furthermore it's not really fast so you even if you brake a bit too late it won't ruin your lap.

 

[OnlyMe]

I adore the ring and I like driving the low-powered cars, so I think this is a great challange

All driven in arcade mode with SS-tires

Lotus Elan S1 '62 (104 bhp) 8'49.103
TVR V8S '91 (239 bhp) 8'05.050

 

[raz_10]

TVR V8S '91 (239 bhp) 8'05.050

This was going to be my next try for tonight!!! nice time 👍

Another one:

Tommy Kaira - ZZ-S MR 192BH SS tires 8'00.358
This car is very nice and it handles awesome, There are probably a few seconds left out there...I'll give it another go.

 

[fogbound]

I have a ways to go one this to catch up. I have been driving race cars and I am just beginning to go back to street cars. Every mistake is so costly. Good job, your skills are amazing. I am in the 8:30 range with a NSX

 

[cestcertaindira]

Thinking of restarting this challenge, with a new twist: BMW 120d, the only diesel car in the game. S2 tyres, no modifications. Have at it!

Should be fun!

 

[cestcertaindira]

Right, so I ran the 120d round the 'Ring. After 3 laps, my best time was a 9'10.477.

Pretty sure this is a fairly slow lap. Anyone else care to try, see how fast you can go in this car?

 

[paddycars1]

Yes ill give this a go on.s'2s. cestcertaindira.on s'2s. 1 lap 8's?

 

[cestcertaindira]

Yes ill give this a go on.s'2s. cestcertaindira.on s'2s. 1 lap 8's?

As you like paddy. Only condition of this is no mods, s2's, no driving aids.

Have fun!

 

[paddycars1]

As you like paddy. Only condition of this is no mods, s2's, no driving aids.

Have fun!

Ok 8'37.022 not a good lap but it will do.

 

[Prince.M5]

Ok 8'37.022 not a good lap but it will do.

That's already a good lap! I clocked in at 8'37.024. No joke, I lost a bit of time at the last corner braking a bit too late...

 

[paddycars1]

That's already a good lap! I clocked in at 8'37.024. No joke, I lost a bit of time at the last corner braking a bit too late...

Thats still fast M5 my wheel is miss-shifting gears so some of my times are not good.

 

[DJ Baker]

Nice to see that there's still some GT4 activity on here. I recently started doing some laps around The Ring again, since I'm going to be doing the Joe Weber School Drivers Training for Industry Pool Testing next Spring. I started out doing laps in a Renault Clio Sport modified to be similar to the cars that we will be renting from RSR for the training. Then I took a look on here to see if anyone was doing anything with everyday street cars around The Ring... BMW 120d on stock S2's & no mods... Perfect!... 8'34.547 for me.

If anyone wants to have a go in the Clio...
Clio Renault Sport 2.0 16V '02
Oil Change, Sports Exhaust, & Sports Chip to get to 199hp
Sports Clutch, Sports Flywheel, Fully Customizable Suspension & Trans
165kg Ballast to get to 1200kg (RSR Clio Cup Cars: 200hp/1204kg)
N2 Tires
8'49.644

 

[paddycars1]

Just did one clean lap loads of time left in the bmw 120d 534"918 still losing time with gear shift I will give an hour and see what I can get.
Second good lap time 8'32'538 . Well if that's your time Dj you need all the help you can get for that school drivers training dude , clearly you did not put much effort into this one . Loads of time left when needed .

 

[Prince.M5]

Well I can get a faster lap, but just doing 4 laps taking too much time. I'm going to put it on to a conclusion with a lap of 8'35.355...

 

[paddycars1]

Well I can get a faster lap, but just doing 4 laps taking too much time. I'm going to put it on to a conclusion with a lap of 8'35.355...

Are you in arcade or GT M5? I am in GT.