- 562
- TheIshter
Alright, so more of the "hey, know your place, you :censored:ing noob" kinda vibe.
NEW INFO: Track Time-Syncing, Randomly Generated Rally Career, Custom Soundtrack...
- Thread starter Dessy182
- 261 comments
- 45,063 views
Alright, so more of the "hey, know your place, you :censored:ing noob" kinda vibe.
- 4,323
- 1,945
- Treviglio
- PAPPACLART
- PAPPALCART
Welcome to GTplanet. Sometimes its just best not to have an opinion around here...You see they prowl around in hungry packs.
Although perhaps the argument(Prem vs Std) based upon what we have seen thus far goes against what you say Theishter, but until we have the game in our hands we are not going to know entirely. So as far as I am concerned the debate is still open should people still wish to discuss, despite what the general coconscious is around here, but best not in this thread.👍
- 891
- Revelation1115
So how random will these tracks be? I mean, how many races until they start using the same 'random' tracks again and again? I hope many to keep the WRC interesting!!
- 701
Keep drawing wiggly lines on a piece of paper and when you draw one the same then you'll have your answer.
If some tracks reach steep hills that need avoiding I guess you might see some familiar sections, but I don't know if it will get that hilly.
- 19
- GunnersFury
Amazing!!!
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
We've all been curious about this, if it's truly random, like GT1's races where numerous cars could be the prize, or "random" like PSP's dealership order (a few different variations). Can we get a truly infinite amount of tracks created from the Course Creator, where we never see a duplicate, or is there a set, repeatable pattern if we use the same criteria over and over again, effectively making saved created courses just "bookmarks", so to speak?
It'll be interesting, but it'll still be an interesting thing to use, even if it probably is more accurately a "Random Course Generator" compared to a proper, full-featured "Course Creator" 👍
- 701
Technologically it doesn't look amazing, but it's amazing in its potential. 👍
Good question, but from the screens and assuming each slider goes from 0 to 10, there maybe 11x11x11x(7+6+5+4+3+2) possible settings before any random variations are introduced
There will be a definite limit, because each track will need a seed value stored to recreate the track, but it would probably be in the billions. You'd end up seeing lots of similar ones anyway by that point.
Good question, but from the screens and assuming each slider goes from 0 to 10, there maybe 11x11x11x(7+6+5+4+3+2) possible settings before any random variations are introduced
There will be a definite limit, because each track will need a seed value stored to recreate the track, but it would probably be in the billions. You'd end up seeing lots of similar ones anyway by that point.
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- 891
- Revelation1115
Keep drawing wiggly lines on a piece of paper and when you draw one the same then you'll have your answer.
If some tracks reach steep hills that need avoiding I guess you might see some familiar sections, but I don't know if it will get that hilly.
Lol, I hope its that random!
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Well, you set the number of sectors, the number of curves within those sectors, the length of the circuit and whether it is a loop or point-to-point (although the space you are given to drawn in down't appear to change based on the length, so I'd say the topography is more exaggerated on shorter and closed circuits). You have a degree of control over it, but it sounds like the placement is almost completely random. Videos of the creator show that the game remembers the circuits you have drawn; if you re-draw the circuit, you don't lose your work - but there's no word on how many circuits the game will hold without being saved first, nor is there any word on whether changing the variables and/or test-driving will erase the circuits the game has already drawn.
- 421
- United Kingdom
- Darty08
Yes yes yes yes yes ! Sounds good enough to me now release it PD !
As far as randomly generated tracks go.. I think it might be quite easy to test. (When we finally get the game in our hands)
Just start creating tracks with the same settings all the time and see how many different variations you get.. Thus if its truly random you will end up with a different one every time even in the slightest.
Just start creating tracks with the same settings all the time and see how many different variations you get.. Thus if its truly random you will end up with a different one every time even in the slightest.
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- 4,323
Random is a funny thing...
And your test would not prove it's truly random. In reality, repeating a random test should give you duplicate results after enough tests. The only way this doesn't happen is if somehow the random generator knows what it's already come up with before and blakclists those from coming up again - which in and of itself makes it not random.
Think of it like this: Flipping a coin is a random event, but it infalibly repeats after enough tries.
Expand that to a six sided die. It's also random, but will also repeat eventually.
Make it a pair of 20 sided die... will also repeat results.
No matter how complex you make it, a truly random closed event will repeat it's results eventually.
Also how many times would you have to repeate the test to know it is doing it differently every time? Let's say there are 1million possibilities and it just cycles through each one until the millionth then starts over. You would have to test 1 million and 1 times.
But what if there were 1 million and 1 possibilities? Your million+1 iteration test would give a false result of "random" becuase it hadn't repeated yet.
Ultimately, the only way to know if it's truly random is to look at the code behind it and see how random that is. Ultimately what does it use for a seed.
There was a gambling site that got in big trouble with this once... they used an algorythm to shuffle their cards that generated a result with some huge number of bits (let's just say it generated a 64 bit result, I forget exactly). The number of results was so great no one would be able to spot a pattern in it.
The problem was they seeded it off the servers time down to the second when the first hand was dealt... well there are only about 85000 unique seconds in a day... that means despite having a 64 bit result from their equation, with only 85000 seeds there were really only 85000possible results... the remaining bagillions of possible results would never come up becuase they were never seeded....
The site was so proud of their 64 bit output randomizer they posted the code behind how it worked... they were so sure it was infallible they didn't care who knew it because you wouln't be able to find the pattern based on 1:2^64 results anyway.
Well someone got this code, reversed the process and realizing there were only 85000 possible results managed to figure out within a few hands of a tournament what was seeding every hand from there on out and basically cheat the system.
Now I read about that a long time ago and I am sure I got a lot of the details wrong... but ultimately the moral is:
Random is only as random as the seed.
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SuperShouden
(Banned)
- 7,542
- SuperShouden
That's actually not that far from the truth. The "Random" button on most mp3 players isn't really random. It simply selects a combination of your favorite songs and those songs you haven't heard in a while.
The "random track generator" probably wouldn't be truly random, either.
The "random track generator" probably wouldn't be truly random, either.
- 1,029
See: Course Maker vid.
There's a randomizer, next and previous arrows, it makes the configuration into a new one each time, based on variables (loop, closed, #of sectors etc.)
- 1,112
- United Kingdom
Technically your right, computers can't do random, even random number generators aren't random for the computer, but if you have about 10 different parametres you can create a random product.
So stricly speaking GT5's tracks will be a random product and the tracks will be unique but the process of making them is not random.
I just hope we can save some of the tracks generated, because I would be very upset if the game generated a fantastic rally course and I was never able to play it again.
Cars
Of the roughly 1000 cars in GT5, about 800 are standard models. Mostly brought over from GTPSP, they're shiny, HD and still more detailed than any vehicle in Prologue. These vehicles only suffer scrapes and scratches, but it's crash consequences that matter. A trip to the gravel trap - or worse, the metal railings - in any car could prove race ending. Think broken gearboxes, brake failures and even engine stalls. All cars regardless of type have fully functioning front reverse lights, horns and get dirty during races.
Dynamic Weather/Time
Snow is similarly impressive, hitting the windscreen in thick clumps before melting into water and being wiped from view. Flakes start to clump in thick grass, tree branches and tracksides before slowly setting onto the track, one lap at a time. It's not just how stunning the weather effects look, though, but their unpredictability which most impresses. Weather even alters the temperature, air pressure and humidity on the track. Forecasts are available for each race, but in a cruelly realistic twist, aren't always accurate. During long races, clouds move across the sky, darkening the track and forcing a constant re-assessment of your race strategy. Failure to read the changing conditions could mean the difference between victory and crashing out.
Daylight alters during longer races, too. Night slowly sets in, reducing visibility and necessitating the use of hi-beam headlights over normal ones. In a 24 hour race, the sky's hue changes slowly fades to black and back without any animations. Stunning. In keeping with the hyper-realism, Polyphony have even included 'time-syncing' on real-life circuits. This allows you to match the time of day in-game to that of the real track - meaning if it's night time in Monza, you'll have to race in the dark. Yet another unnecessary detail that only GT offers..
Soundtrack
Just like the PSP version, you'll get the chance to play whatever music you have on your hard drive, so you're only limited by the size of your disk and the range of your MP3 collection.
Customization
You can tell when you're tailing a car with a racing exhaust rather that its standard factory parts, because it looks bigger and sounds louder than normal. You can tune electric cars. Tuning menus are more interactive and visual that before, too, with a much slicker user interface in the garage - though there's no livery editor this time.
Rally
Each race in the rally career is run on a randomly-generated point-to-point course with the aim, like in real rallying, being to beat your competitors times rather than race them head to head. Every rally is also affected by GT5's stunning weather engine, too. There's even a co-driver calling out each corners severity and suggested approach.
Nascar
NASCAR in GT only comprises a few 'official' tracks - including Daytona and Indianapolis - and roughly ten real drivers. The license will also play to the real sport's rules, such as yellow flags and pitting. The NASCARs are also the only vehicles which have bonnets break open and rear windows shatter.
Excerpts from Interview with Kaz
Dirt Track on the online mode, you can drive with many more cars that way. And the Rally mode is different again; each car is on a time trial, staggered by 10 seconds.
Wet-weather pit strategy can make or break your race. You will have to make the right decisions at the right time, and learn to be fast in both wet and dry conditions. This, with 16- player, private online race events, is going to be unlike anything we've seen before. I can't wait.
I haven't read all the post and this may have been mentioned. As far as the NASCAR tracks, I would have to believe that Texas Motor Speedway would have to be included. KY did his research about NASCAR here to get some knowledge on the sport. To not have it in the game wouldn't make sense at all. Unofficially, I would say this one is a go.
Standard cars will get more than just scrapes and scratches. Not the whole deformation as the premiums as far as individual parts but they will get some dents as well. http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/news/d5247p4.html
Soundwise, I hope you are correct. It would be nice to play our own music. This was a major request which will suite everyone. Gives me an excuse to get a bigger hard drive now.
Of the roughly 1000 cars in GT5, about 800 are standard models. Mostly brought over from GTPSP, they're shiny, HD and still more detailed than any vehicle in Prologue. These vehicles only suffer scrapes and scratches, but it's crash consequences that matter. A trip to the gravel trap - or worse, the metal railings - in any car could prove race ending. Think broken gearboxes, brake failures and even engine stalls. All cars regardless of type have fully functioning front reverse lights, horns and get dirty during races.
Dynamic Weather/Time
Snow is similarly impressive, hitting the windscreen in thick clumps before melting into water and being wiped from view. Flakes start to clump in thick grass, tree branches and tracksides before slowly setting onto the track, one lap at a time. It's not just how stunning the weather effects look, though, but their unpredictability which most impresses. Weather even alters the temperature, air pressure and humidity on the track. Forecasts are available for each race, but in a cruelly realistic twist, aren't always accurate. During long races, clouds move across the sky, darkening the track and forcing a constant re-assessment of your race strategy. Failure to read the changing conditions could mean the difference between victory and crashing out.
Daylight alters during longer races, too. Night slowly sets in, reducing visibility and necessitating the use of hi-beam headlights over normal ones. In a 24 hour race, the sky's hue changes slowly fades to black and back without any animations. Stunning. In keeping with the hyper-realism, Polyphony have even included 'time-syncing' on real-life circuits. This allows you to match the time of day in-game to that of the real track - meaning if it's night time in Monza, you'll have to race in the dark. Yet another unnecessary detail that only GT offers..
Soundtrack
Just like the PSP version, you'll get the chance to play whatever music you have on your hard drive, so you're only limited by the size of your disk and the range of your MP3 collection.
Customization
You can tell when you're tailing a car with a racing exhaust rather that its standard factory parts, because it looks bigger and sounds louder than normal. You can tune electric cars. Tuning menus are more interactive and visual that before, too, with a much slicker user interface in the garage - though there's no livery editor this time.
Rally
Each race in the rally career is run on a randomly-generated point-to-point course with the aim, like in real rallying, being to beat your competitors times rather than race them head to head. Every rally is also affected by GT5's stunning weather engine, too. There's even a co-driver calling out each corners severity and suggested approach.
Nascar
NASCAR in GT only comprises a few 'official' tracks - including Daytona and Indianapolis - and roughly ten real drivers. The license will also play to the real sport's rules, such as yellow flags and pitting. The NASCARs are also the only vehicles which have bonnets break open and rear windows shatter.
Excerpts from Interview with Kaz
Dirt Track on the online mode, you can drive with many more cars that way. And the Rally mode is different again; each car is on a time trial, staggered by 10 seconds.
Wet-weather pit strategy can make or break your race. You will have to make the right decisions at the right time, and learn to be fast in both wet and dry conditions. This, with 16- player, private online race events, is going to be unlike anything we've seen before. I can't wait.
I haven't read all the post and this may have been mentioned. As far as the NASCAR tracks, I would have to believe that Texas Motor Speedway would have to be included. KY did his research about NASCAR here to get some knowledge on the sport. To not have it in the game wouldn't make sense at all. Unofficially, I would say this one is a go.
Standard cars will get more than just scrapes and scratches. Not the whole deformation as the premiums as far as individual parts but they will get some dents as well. http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/news/d5247p4.html
Soundwise, I hope you are correct. It would be nice to play our own music. This was a major request which will suite everyone. Gives me an excuse to get a bigger hard drive now.
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