New McLaren Super Car: No Longer Just a Rumor

It's consensual then, the 458 still is the benchmark. I'm surprised.
 
Astonished that All Reviews have favored the Italia .(Would be Surprised if Top Gear do too).
 
This is what you get when F1 drivers help develop a sports car. No sport, all robot. Designing a car to drive like an F1 car is a terrible horrible awful idea.
 
Keef
This is what you get when F1 drivers help develop a sports car. No sport, all robot. Designing a car to drive like an F1 car is a terrible horrible awful idea.
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What about the NSX then? ;)
 
I don't think so much that it's suffered because of any imput from mr L.Hamilton, J.Button or H.finn-bloke, i doubt they actually had much do do with the actual development of the MP4-12c, it just sounds good from a marketing point of view. I think two things are the real issue. Firstly, the 458 moved the game on so much and too late on in the 12C's development for McLaren to do anything about it. Secondly, Ron Dennis quit his focus on the F1 team to concentrate on the road car programme. He's quite anal and not the most outwardly passionate individual. If his mentality is encouraged as working practice at McLaren, it's not surprising that the 12C is a very capable but cold fish of a vehicle. To me, it seems as if the 458 and 12C reflect the companies who developed them incredibly acurately.
 
Keep in mind theres a huge difference between aryton senna helping on the nsx in the early 90s and f1 drivers 20 years later working on the cars.
 
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Also keep in mind Ferrari send much more refined set cars for media tests, as well as sending engineers to the track before to make a perfect setup.
 
^^^ That's just what I was thinking. Unless engineers from both teams were able to get a perfect setup for the car beforehand, or both cars were running factory settings, it's difficult to compare them. Maybe the Ferrari still is better, but it's impossible to tell how much better it is. Or it's possible that the track setup has a lot to do with the experience and made the Ferrari better enough.

I do think that the Ferrari being easier to control had to do with the setup though.
 
Back in the traction control and driver aids era? Yeaaaaah... they kept it real real.

While they probably had a little input from the drivers to help fill out the handling envelope, it's likely that much of the development was done with other test drivers, since both Hamilton and Button have a much more important day job...
 
The Macca is turning out like the 'Great British Hope' for Wimbledon. Talked up to the nine's but a day late and a dollar short when push comes to shove.

Pity it doesnt even have flashy looks to fall back on either, what with that 80's black louvred grill thing going on at the back.
 
Just had an interesting thought...Anyone remember the Pratt & Miller Corvette LMPEvo wind tunnel model? What if McLaren builds the new 'Big Mac' as a LMP1 contender thats also a road going car (ala McLaren F1 & F1 GTR) in the same vain? They have said they want to go for the overall win at Le Mans again and this would be a case of history repeating if they do something along the lines of this.
 
This new Mclaren car probably needs to be worked through some teething issues to allow it to capture what Ferrari have had nailed down for years. The car is likely setup so that Mclarens test driver (not jenson nor lewis) can decimate laptimes, and not the average joe (even though the Fifth gear guys are/were both racing drivers).

Hopefully reviews like this will allow Mclaren to make the adjustements it needs for future models of the car. I still want one, though i still want a 458 too.

The laptimes were very close (0.1s) but the Ferrari was much more natural to drive. Perhaps GT5 got it right after all.
 
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I don`t give a crap about this reviews, aslong as Mclaren can`t send their test team + test driver against Ferraris test team + test driver.

I don`t expect random TV journalist to judge which car is more capable of. It seems like, the MP4-12C has to be driven on the edge like a race car to put down decent lap times. I wonder if Mclarens marketing department is now sending Hamilton as "The Stig" for the TG test.

And also, don`t forget that its very likely that Ferrari cheated.

Personally speaking, I don`t give a crap about "soul" on modern supercars. Todays electronical beasts have no soul at all. You CAN`T turn off TCS on any modern supercar. Just because the 458 has a option named like this, it isn`t true. It just changes the TCS to allow drifting.
Also, modern Ferraris and Lamborghinis have a too much "poser car for no brain, tons of money drivers" image.
Yes, if I would love to drive any of these beasts, but If I could choose from, I would take a MP4-12C above the 458 anyday. Just because Mclarens image fits better for me.
 
alonsof1fan91
And also, don`t forget that its very likely that Ferrari cheated.
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Why!? Ferrari have been producing a car of this type for decades. They know what works and have had opportunities to improve with every generation.

This is the first type that Mclaren have produced, give them a generation or 2, or maybe even just a mid-life revision and it could well be on par or exceed what Ferrari produce.

But why is it hard to accept that the Ferrari is better?
 
Ferrari does cheat tho, the 'press cars' they let journos fang around in are usually tweaked differently to the car you or I would buy (if we had the money) and it involves suspension tweaking and engine tweaking usually to make them faster around a track or in a straight line.
 
MitchZ06
Ferrari does cheat tho, the 'press cars' they let journos fang around in are usually tweaked differently to the car you or I would buy (if we had the money) and it involves suspension tweaking and engine tweaking usually to make them faster around a track or in a straight line.
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I'm aware of this, but tweaks are still minor parts of a vehicle. Sure they make a difference, but the Ferrari is beating the Mclaren on a rather broad spectrum.
 
You'd say the F458 was better if Ferrari offered you a trip to Maranello wouldn't you?
 
MitchZ06
You'd say the F458 was better if Ferrari offered you a trip to Maranello wouldn't you?
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Depends entirely on circumstance. If my job was to be critical of it and it's competitors then I would say what I thought having driven them. If they want to use me as a 1-man marketing ploy, them I'm open to offers!
 
MitchZ06
Ferrari does cheat tho, the 'press cars' they let journos fang around in are usually tweaked differently to the car you or I would buy (if we had the money) and it involves suspension tweaking and engine tweaking usually to make them faster around a track or in a straight line.
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Chris Harris which is an auto-journo that I have utmost respect for, mentioned it in a recent Jalopnik article and I must say I wasn't surprised by that.

Of course, biasing the car settings to benefit from a specific course means you're kind of cheating ( or preserving your name as a brand, as Ferrari says ), because you won't be getting that sort of adjustment in the car parked on your driveway. However, the MP4-12C is a highly technological machine and was specifically developed with a benchmark in mind, let's not forget the benchmark is the Ferrari 458 and that Mr. Ron Dennis is keen on beating the Fezza in reviews.

Point is: Ferrari is fiddling with the car before giving it to the press, only a fool would believe McLaren is not playing safe, they are probably doing it too. It's about money and in this kind of battlefield everyone plays with their own rules, wheter these embody the basic principles of consumer ethic is unknown.

What I do know is that the Ferrari is beating the McLaren by a mile in every single road test done until now, regardless of how or by who they're done. Common sense is always a strong argument, the Ferrari is probably better.
 
Harris is a journo I have the utmost respect for, though I don't have quite as big a "man-crush" on him as the Jalopnik boys do... he's a keen driver, and has sampled a huge number of modern super cars and sports cars both on and off track, going so far as to competing in the 24 Hours of the Nurburgring as Walter Rohrl's team-mate.

He's what made reading Autocar in previous decades enjoyable... and after that sadly short stint at Driver's Republic, I'm ecstatic that EVO has picked him up.

All people have their biases... but Harris has been pretty straight up. He's even slated cars he's owned (repeat: HIS OWN CARS) when comparing them to superior competition, thus it's hard to pin the "fanboy" or "paid-off" card on him.

Both Ferrari and McLaren send support squads and tweak the cars during the tests. That said cars can be tweaked doesn't actually change the results... the 458 is either winning by a lot, or winning by a little, but is still winning the subjective impressions battle. Doesn't surprise me too badly... Ferrari have been practicing and making mid-engined road cars for decades. McLaren's last foray was in the early 90's, and the MP412c is completely grounds-up. Ferrari have taken the brickbats for issues with the 348, the 355, the 360 (twitchiness) and the 430 (though there weren't many besides the styling)... the 458 has a lot of experience and development behind it. The 412c is practically a virgin effort in comparison.

Still... they've both been beaten on track by a Porsche... :D

alonsof1fan91
I don`t give a crap about this reviews, aslong as Mclaren can`t send their test team + test driver against Ferraris test team + test driver.

And also, don`t forget that its very likely that Ferrari cheated.
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Anger issues, much? On many of those tests, BOTH Ferrari and McLaren sent support teams with the cars. Ferrari still won, even after McLaren switched tires.
 
I still dislike that car.
 
I'm still astonished the MP4-12C pulled such an amazing lap..

Strange how the top two cars are both British.
 
*gasp* Could it be that Top Gear is pulling Best Motoring and is biased towards British cars?! :eek: No way!
 
JaiAE86
I'm still astonished the MP4-12C pulled such an amazing lap..

Strange how the top two cars are both British.
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It was tuned on that very track. What do you expect?

And it's also strange how the GT-R, Evo, and other Japanese cars tend to be at the top of Best Motoring's favorite and fastest cars lists...

And how American magazines tend to get such amazing results with Mustangs, CTS-V's and Corvettes...

"Strange"...
 
Leonidae@MFT
*gasp* Could it be that Top Gear is pulling Best Motoring and is biased towards British cars?! :eek: No way!
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It probably has more to do with the fact that this car was developed on the TG test track, and the lap is conducted from a standing start. I'm surprised you dislike the car so much, since you are a big fan of the GT-R and they appear to be quite similar cars.
 
I quite like this car actually. Sure it's no F1, but it's a nice car for what it is. On a very short list of supercars I would actually own if I had the money.
 
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