- 84,766
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:
New Online Racing Penalties Leave Gran Turismo’s Top Drivers Fuming
- Thread starter Famine
- 121 comments
- 10,342 views
Nightwing24
(Banned)
- 241
- United States
Why now after several incidents of controversy that have already occurred and been ignored in past finals? Why try and fix it now when it’s too late and GT is known for a bad reputation for sportsmanship and lack of penalties.
Great effort…. Too little too late
TheNormsk
Premium
- 1,709
- Wisconsin
- BritGuyInUSA
Now if only there was a system in place to report a-hole drivers in the online weekly races with retroactive loss of points applied after review. There would probably need to be an AI thing though for the volume of requests made to triage the reports but this could be a way to deal with repeat offenders.
- 84,766
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
As you can probably tell from the article, I think this penalty is disproportionate...
... but I also think that focusing on the at-most 48 players in each region who race "top split" (ugh) GTWS races and leaving five-figures of players to be screwed over by far worse behaviour every race is - while logistically sane - irritating.
Had someone been watching my TGRGT race at Laguna Seca, I'd have gained five places.
Except I wouldn't, because they're disqualifying people a week later and not (again, probably for reasons stated in the article) bumping up the people they robbed places off...
And there's a mild irony to being this hard on a driver they gave a 1s penalty to in a World Final after he - entirely innocently, in an error everyone should 100% understand - demolished the Lamborghini (and he also concurred that the penalty was unexpectedly mild).
I'm not seeing who this helps right now.
... but I also think that focusing on the at-most 48 players in each region who race "top split" (ugh) GTWS races and leaving five-figures of players to be screwed over by far worse behaviour every race is - while logistically sane - irritating.
Had someone been watching my TGRGT race at Laguna Seca, I'd have gained five places.
Except I wouldn't, because they're disqualifying people a week later and not (again, probably for reasons stated in the article) bumping up the people they robbed places off...
And there's a mild irony to being this hard on a driver they gave a 1s penalty to in a World Final after he - entirely innocently, in an error everyone should 100% understand - demolished the Lamborghini (and he also concurred that the penalty was unexpectedly mild).
I'm not seeing who this helps right now.
- 49,039
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Just adds more fuel to the fire about players that complain Sport Mode events cater to faster players.
Why penalise players that may have more experienced race craft? I’m not saying better race craft. Players in GT2 and GT3 have just as good races as GT1. Likewise in all classes there will be those players that deliberately ruin others races. Seems to me a good way for bad players to ruin someone else’s final results.
Why penalise players that may have more experienced race craft? I’m not saying better race craft. Players in GT2 and GT3 have just as good races as GT1. Likewise in all classes there will be those players that deliberately ruin others races. Seems to me a good way for bad players to ruin someone else’s final results.
- 97
- United Kingdom
I'm a huge Rallycross fan. If memory serves me correctly, during the Covid 19 pandemic of 2020, motorsports E-sports became a big thing for obvious reasons.
There was an online series of World RX races on youtube using the wonderful game Dirt Rally 2.0, (utilizing the broadcasters and hosts of the World RX series) to give us motorsports fans something to watch until real life racing started back again.
During one race, I remember one particular driver admitting on his stream he had no prior experience of driving a beast of a World RX car, and he was facing backwards after a melee on the third corner. It was carnage.
That driver was Charles Leclerc. The fact that the FIA have not applied a retrospective ban dissqualifying him from all F1 races is unforgivable. I expect the FIA to take Polyphony Digitals lead and nail his balls to a stool step before the next F1 race, otherwise I am taking to twitter with me greivances.
There was an online series of World RX races on youtube using the wonderful game Dirt Rally 2.0, (utilizing the broadcasters and hosts of the World RX series) to give us motorsports fans something to watch until real life racing started back again.
During one race, I remember one particular driver admitting on his stream he had no prior experience of driving a beast of a World RX car, and he was facing backwards after a melee on the third corner. It was carnage.
That driver was Charles Leclerc. The fact that the FIA have not applied a retrospective ban dissqualifying him from all F1 races is unforgivable. I expect the FIA to take Polyphony Digitals lead and nail his balls to a stool step before the next F1 race, otherwise I am taking to twitter with me greivances.
- 2,632
- United Kingdom
I'm somehow not surprised to see the complete lack of sympathy by many people here. It's interesting - it highlights the dichotomy the franchise is suffering from since the release of GT Sport.
Two completely contrasting playerbases both wanting completely different things, mostly depending on when they became invested in the franchise, both unhappy with what they're offered and simultaneously both at best indifferent, and at worst (and quite often) holding disdain for the other group because the other group want the franchise to be something that they don't.
Easy to understand both sides when realistically both groups are somehow neglected. 3 FR Challenges a month on one side and whatever Wacky Races GTWS season we've got on the other doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone. I do wonder how they'll balance these groups in future installments.
Realistically, I think (without change) the GTWS/esports group bleed off into other sims and it eventually dies off - there are other sims to go to but there really isn't another Gran Turismo for the other group to go to. If I want to tune up and haul around a Toyota MR2, there is little other choice. If I want to race GT3 cars competitively? I don't think there could be more choice.
Two completely contrasting playerbases both wanting completely different things, mostly depending on when they became invested in the franchise, both unhappy with what they're offered and simultaneously both at best indifferent, and at worst (and quite often) holding disdain for the other group because the other group want the franchise to be something that they don't.
Easy to understand both sides when realistically both groups are somehow neglected. 3 FR Challenges a month on one side and whatever Wacky Races GTWS season we've got on the other doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone. I do wonder how they'll balance these groups in future installments.
Realistically, I think (without change) the GTWS/esports group bleed off into other sims and it eventually dies off - there are other sims to go to but there really isn't another Gran Turismo for the other group to go to. If I want to tune up and haul around a Toyota MR2, there is little other choice. If I want to race GT3 cars competitively? I don't think there could be more choice.
- 2,780
- United States
it's crazy all the "issues" noted were straight to a DQ. No warning, no wrist slapping, no in-race or post-race five (or 10) second penalties. None of that... straight to the harshest penalty that can be doled out. Like, even the Genny driver at the WS event (Romero?) who all but killed the Lambo driver (Haywood?) - who was having an amazing race up to that point - and got a 1.0s pen that ended up not even mattering as he was able to jump into slip and be right back up with the pack by the end of Dottenger.
I can't imagine putting in the time these people do, have a hard race where there's some rubbin-is-racin going on but nothing malicious or dirty, and finding out days later your race and points are retroactively being taken away in an email - especially with said "issue" happened in a race your points aren't even from! Like, these guys are the game's biggest ambassadors and this is how they're treated? What a kick in the stones.
I can't imagine putting in the time these people do, have a hard race where there's some rubbin-is-racin going on but nothing malicious or dirty, and finding out days later your race and points are retroactively being taken away in an email - especially with said "issue" happened in a race your points aren't even from! Like, these guys are the game's biggest ambassadors and this is how they're treated? What a kick in the stones.
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- 3,635
- Finland
It's funny, it's like Polyphony doesn't know what to do with their game; as you said, both sides are neglected. Single player is a joke, and Sport mode is plagued by the bad penalty system.
But it's no surprise or a secret, the backlash is deserved, meanwhile Kaz continues to think "This is fine."
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- 2,766
- New Plymouth
From what I've seen and heard many players started getting warnings in Nations Cup and messages were sent out stating they needed to keep it clean. That PD counts this as fair warning to all of them is no surprise. PD is notorious for being opaque and silent on what they mean and want, but I can say some of the penalized incidents I've seen wouldn't even make another driver below the top 2 splits raise an eyebrow as it's often no holds barred full contact racing and little bumps and nudges don't even get noticed.
What is surprising is the erratic nature of the penalties as similar moves in races are not getting punished. Typical PD.
Now if they would care about the other 99.998 percent of the player base's experiences that would help greatly.
- 1
- England
PD can't win.
It's either too little or too much.
Maybe if the players showed some sportsmanlike Conduct, and raced clean, when an accident happens hold their hands up and give the place back it would all be OK.
The top split should set a better example and be scrutinised more heavily. Sadly some of these with the overpowering desire to win at all costs are among the worst racers in the game.
It's either too little or too much.
Maybe if the players showed some sportsmanlike Conduct, and raced clean, when an accident happens hold their hands up and give the place back it would all be OK.
The top split should set a better example and be scrutinised more heavily. Sadly some of these with the overpowering desire to win at all costs are among the worst racers in the game.
- 1,219
- Melbourne
- Nicky-Boy_7
This.
- 6,918
- Birmingham, UK
- GOTMAXPOWER
I like the idea of driving standards being policed but PD have opened up a whole can of worms with the way they have gone about it, a couple of years ago Coque Lopez won a world championship with a move that is much more egregious than some of those we have seen punished recently, by the new standards would he be disqualified? And would that be a decision in the moment or a week later when he has already took the trophy home?
Who is deciding on these penalties? The Tweet screenshot from Frenky in Famine's article was replied to by Mikail Hizal (who we know has a role within PD) justifying the decision, he had apparently commented on people's driving at Le Mans a few weeks ago (via Discord) shortly before they received official warnings, are we to assume he is the person responsible for driving standards and if so is he working alone or with other stewards? And are they watching every race or just those where people are reporting contact (we know from Tidgney that the top players have a private chat group with PD)?
Which races are the rules being enforced in? It makes sense to keep a closer eye on the top GTWS splits since that's where the big prize is (equivalent to $3000 according to the terms and conditions) but there were multiple warnings for a daily race A with DR and SR turned off too, TX3_Dede even got a 30 day ban (he discussed it publicly on Twitch so I assume it's fine to post his name). It feels like they are policing people rather than events.
Who is deciding on these penalties? The Tweet screenshot from Frenky in Famine's article was replied to by Mikail Hizal (who we know has a role within PD) justifying the decision, he had apparently commented on people's driving at Le Mans a few weeks ago (via Discord) shortly before they received official warnings, are we to assume he is the person responsible for driving standards and if so is he working alone or with other stewards? And are they watching every race or just those where people are reporting contact (we know from Tidgney that the top players have a private chat group with PD)?
Which races are the rules being enforced in? It makes sense to keep a closer eye on the top GTWS splits since that's where the big prize is (equivalent to $3000 according to the terms and conditions) but there were multiple warnings for a daily race A with DR and SR turned off too, TX3_Dede even got a 30 day ban (he discussed it publicly on Twitch so I assume it's fine to post his name). It feels like they are policing people rather than events.
- 340
- Italy
- Il_Conte_Sky
Hello, I'm Team Manager of Bertani (OP Team)
I'm logging in my GTP account after ages just to say Thank you, all you said here hits home so hard.
GTWS has always been kind of harsh if you wanted to qualify to Live events, but this year with the format change, the fewer spots available, the lack of cure in most aspects of the races (one example being Quali lenghts, where often some drivers would get 2 chances and some only one depending on when the game released you from the pits), and finally this unannounced change of yardstick from whoever is in charge of officiating...it's been as rough as it gets, especially for the time and effort everyone in the first 3-4 splits put in. Thank you for recognizing that, doesn't happen very often within the general GT Community
- 691
- Australia
The issue isn't that they're enforcing driving standards, but the timing, process and severity in which they are now being enforced.
They aren't just completely disqualifying the driver (instead of applying a time penalty) for the race in which that incident occurred, regardless of how severe the incident actually is... they are also disqualifying the driver from the GTWS races they may have done 2 or 4 hours later.
To me it's kind of like curing dandruff with decapitation.
- 6,918
- Birmingham, UK
- GOTMAXPOWER
Another one posted half an hour ago, the Porsche and Alfa Romeo have both been disqualified:
- 2,632
- United Kingdom
Well, at least the alfas move is the first one I think is just to have a DSQ lol.
Porsche DSQ for the smallest squeeze ever is crazy. that can very very easily be an honest mistake, and even then would usually not result in bad consequences. No reason to disqualify based on that. Points penalty, sure. But to lose the entire round over an inch of car width? Mental.
- 34,694
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
There really is no balance to the penalty system. Its either completely useless and never punishes the guilty player in question or its absolutely extreme to the point of punishing YOU for so much as a small error and these DQs are just an even bigger example of this. I am just at a loss as to what is happening over there at PD, why on earth is there NO existence of balance with the penalties? Why does it always have to be either one end of the extreme or the other?
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- 639
- United Kingdom
I don't know what the right answer to this is. Other than, y'know, communicating that the stewarding is happening, that seems like something that clearly should have happened.
I fundamentally don't think dynamic penalty systems work, in any game. Maybe they need to go the iRacing route and say "if there's contact, it's both players' fault unless it is obviously really stupid" instead of trying to apportion blame for every single little thing when it's clear that it can't get that done correctly a lot of the time.
I fundamentally don't think dynamic penalty systems work, in any game. Maybe they need to go the iRacing route and say "if there's contact, it's both players' fault unless it is obviously really stupid" instead of trying to apportion blame for every single little thing when it's clear that it can't get that done correctly a lot of the time.
- 3,740
- United Kingdom
Nice to see that the revenge-ram is a thing even at the very highest level.
- 6,918
- Birmingham, UK
- GOTMAXPOWER
PD must only have the power to delete scores instead of giving proper penalties, I can see why the Alfa player was pissed off, you can't crowd somebody off the road like that when they have that kind of overlap. With the time loss from being pushed off and then dirty tyres for the whole middle sector he would have lost about 5 seconds.
I would've give the Porsche a 5s penalty post race and the Alfa a DSQ but that's obviously not possible.
- 2,780
- United States
Seems that way, especially based on the article Famine posted. It doesn't seem like PD have the ability to change the points after the race. Like in F1 if you finish 1st but a pen demotes you to 2nd you get 18 points, the guy who was in 2nd gets promoted to 1st for 25 points, and everyone from P3 down is unaffected. Seems simple enough!
"Curiously, the disqualification has only removed each affected driver’s points from that round, with those who finished behind them not being promoted to the higher points — likely as a consequence of how points are calculated and the multiple entries for each round."
Here, it's like PD doesn't know how to do that so they just eliminate the "problem driver" (and I use that term very loosely as the Alfa is the only example I've seen thus far that was a malicious problem driver) simply gets eliminated and all the other points just stay as-is. It just seems so... lazy.
