New Penalty System killed the "racing" in GTS

[Alpha Cipher]

Point 1: dont care if its him
Point 2 : there was contact if you mute the video and dont hear the guys annoying voice narrating the whole thing you can see they both made contact. From the looks of it they dont even look like theyre A/S or S/S from the way they drive. So im not surprised

I don't need to mute the video to see the contact. Stop using ad hominem as well, it doesn't matter what his ratings are, nor is his narration. Anyway I'm not saying there's no contact, because there is. What I'm asking is who do you think initiated the contact? And do you think the one who initiated the contact is justified? All I want is a solid answer to those questions.

 

[jdmnsprd]

I don't need to mute the video to see the contact. Stop using ad hominem as well, it doesn't matter what his ratings are, nor is his narration. Anyway I'm not saying there's no contact, because there is. What I'm asking is who do you think initiated the contact? And do you think the one who initiated the contact is justified? All I want is a solid answer to those questions.

And thats where youre wrong because if ratings didnt matter there would be no DR OR SR so it does matter. A lobby of A/S and S/S drivers is not going to look like that zoo of a race in that video. It doesnt matter who initiatiated the point is there is contact on both drivers im an A/S so its funny I hardly ever run into these situations and if I do I dont make a thread about it and start crying I just adapt and learn from my mistakes and to answer your 2 questions both of them were making contact im not watching the whole video im only watching from 5:35 to 6:22

 

[Alpha Cipher]

And thats where youre wrong because if ratings didnt matter there would be no DR OR SR so it does matter. A lobby of A/S and S/S drivers is not going to look like that zoo of a race in that video. It doesnt matter who initiatiated the point is there is contact on both drivers im an A/S so its funny I hardly ever run into these situations and if I do I dont make a thread about it and start crying I just adapt and learn from my mistakes and to answer your 2 questions both of them were making contact im not watching the whole video im only watching from 5:35 to 6:22

Yeah you didn't answer the questions at all. Let's just agree to disagree, because this can get a lot worse

 

[jdmnsprd]

Yeah you didn't answer the questions at all. Let's just agree to disagree, because this can get a lot worse

No you just didnt get the answer you wanted but ok tough guy

 

[Alpha Cipher]

No you just didnt get the answer you wanted but ok tough guy

sigh
Ad hominem

 

[Spurgy 777]

@jdmnsprd that was a lobby of S/S drivers, even a few top 10 drivers.

 

[fastone371]

What PD really needs to fix is that deal where someone crashes in front of you and they are sliding sideways across the track and their car doesnt ghost. Even if you take evasive action you get a penalty if you hit them. That happened twice to me today at Blue Moon, guys trying to win the race on the first lap, crashing by hitting other cars, the walls, and driving thru the grass and cars not ghosting, I hit them and get a 5 second penalty. You can report drivers but how do you report crap like this to PD?

 

[TheGeologist]

Dude, now that I'm a Dr A driver, I totally think this penalty system is crap. I got bumped from behind and got a penalty that cost me the win. Stupid

Yet in Dr B, someone can brake check me and not get a penalty. Okay.

 

[Ginger yido]

Removed

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Ugh penalties are hash in GR.1, a little bit of lag, hit someone following a normal driving line, yet before he updates, bam 10 sec, nothing wrong with the other car afterwards. A lag brush in the corner with no effect, 3 sec, etc. A ghost materializing too early while still going way slow in the racing line, have another 2 sec.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Dude, now that I'm a Dr A driver, I totally think this penalty system is crap. I got bumped from behind and got a penalty that cost me the win. Stupid

Yet in Dr B, someone can brake check me and not get a penalty. Okay.

Don't give up, it gets better at mid-A

 

[bmxmitch]

And thats where youre wrong because if ratings didnt matter there would be no DR OR SR so it does matter. A lobby of A/S and S/S drivers is not going to look like that zoo of a race in that video. It doesnt matter who initiatiated the point is there is contact on both drivers im an A/S so its funny I hardly ever run into these situations and if I do I dont make a thread about it and start crying I just adapt and learn from my mistakes and to answer your 2 questions both of them were making contact im not watching the whole video im only watching from 5:35 to 6:22

Ok, I have to jump in on this one last time.

It’s clear you totally missed the plot of this thread.
It was never about unfair penalties or who deserves what, or crying about unfair treatment for SS drivers.
My point is that the overly strict penalties destroy THE RACING in GTS!
People who serve their penalties on corner exits, driving lanes and so on. Every good fight gets destroyed by the system at the slightest contact and it gets even worse when people have to break immediately (or decide to, right in front of you).
This wouldn’t be a problem anywhere else. In no racing league ever! Even in F1 a slight contact won’t bother anyone...
So, that’s that.

And also, please watch your temper sir. This is a normal discussion here, so please keep your snooty attitude at home. Thank you

 

[adstomko]

A huge problem with the current penalty system:
There are some drivers who deliberately move across in braking zone whilst driver behind is in the process of making a clean lunge to the inside. As a result of this, the driver who tried to overtake receives an innocent penalty.

Happened yesterday in Top 24 Superstars Nations Cup race at Interlagos.
Coming into the sharp right-hander towards the end of the lap, driver in front seems to deliberately move across as he/she can see I'm just about to lunge in, but I try to avoid his swift actions by moving too quickly to the right during braking zone, almost losing control by trying to avoid him, then slightly tapping the next driver ahead. It looks like my fault, but what made it look more convincing that it was his/her error, was that he does exactly the same thing to another driver 2 corners later (the last corner of the circuit). The driver brakes up the field as everyone slows down, then innocent drivers receive penalties with nowhere to go, including the driver who was unfairly blocked.
Such moves in real racing can be very dangerous. Penalty system needs to address this issue

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I made a compilation of all my penalties yesterday on Blue moon, 9 incidents over 12 races. The maximum SR points for that race was 26 at SR.S so never anywhere near a red rating except in one early race (that I didn't record) that was a laggy pinball fest after I got knocked from 2nd to the back in lap 1, not much sense to make out of that one, best forgotten.

The rest of the incidents of the other mostly clean 12 races are here

0:00, car in front gets in trouble, I go as far as I can to the outside, no harmful contact, 2 sec penalty
0:18, first time racing a Mazda, he goes slower through the corner than I expect, I bump him, SR Down deserved, yet 10 sec penalty?
0:46, I don't see any contact, zero, nothing, 3 sec penalty
1:00, Victim of bump pass attempt, 1 sec penalty
1:15, Car unghosts in the driving line still going slow, I gamble I can still go through, guess not, 1 sec penalty
1:30, I over take, car hits me at the apex, 1 sec penalty, brake checks me, 10 sec penalty. Said he did it on purpose as he was ahead.
2:08, Bump passed, 1 sec penalty, and again, 1 sec penalty
2:37, Car in trouble, should have seen that coming, I come off worse and get 3 sec penalty
2:55, Draft overtake a laggy car, he jumps back at the wrong moment, no harm, 2 sec penalty

Is the system working as intended?

I had 2 wins, consistent good finishes even after getting knocked to the back, so despite the unnecessary penalties, racing was plenty fun. Yet some penalties, like the brake check and the ones with zero effect to the cars involved, very annoying.

 

[Mr616]

Ok, I have to jump in on this one last time.

It’s clear you totally missed the plot of this thread.
It was never about unfair penalties or who deserves what, or crying about unfair treatment for SS drivers.
My point is that the overly strict penalties destroy THE RACING in GTS!
People who serve their penalties on corner exits, driving lanes and so on. Every good fight gets destroyed by the system at the slightest contact and it gets even worse when people have to break immediately (or decide to, right in front of you).
This wouldn’t be a problem anywhere else. In no racing league ever! Even in F1 a slight contact won’t bother anyone...
So, that’s that.

And also, please watch your temper sir. This is a normal discussion here, so please keep your snooty attitude at home. Thank you

So it's contact that ruins the racing then. To many people race expecting contact in racing and that should not be the case. Every move you put on somebody should be with zero intention of contact. This is just not happening in sport mode anymore.

People are expecting contact in every race, or even every overtake. The more lenient the system is, the more people game it so zero tolerance separated the triers from the doers.

I could race closely under the other system. why did so many others struggle? Because they need a safety net to overtake people.

Why does everybody think contact should be accepted and that it's "the norm". That is absolutely false.

 

[Outspacer]

So it's contact that ruins the racing then. To many people race expecting contact in racing and that should not be the case. Every move you put on somebody should be with zero intention of contact. This is just not happening in sport mode anymore.

People are expecting contact in every race, or even every overtake. The more lenient the system is, the more people game it so zero tolerance separated the triers from the doers.

I could race closely under the other system. why did so many others struggle? Because they need a safety net to overtake people.

So it's a failed SR system that ruins the racing then. Too many people at SR 99, so the matchmaking has no idea who's really clean and who isn't, so keeps putting them all in races together. If you're going to use logic to work back and identify a root cause, it's cheating to stop when it suits you.

"zero tolerance separated the triers from the doers" - no it didn't, they still held SR 99-ish and they still ended up matched into the same races. (PD dishing out some massive -SR hits doesn't seem to have helped that statistic at all).

Why does everybody think contact should be accepted and that it's "the norm". That is absolutely false.

"Everybody" is absolutely false. Clearly, because then it would include you!

 

[Tyler Utley]

Sorry but the new SR has ruined it for me. no extra penalty should be required for going off track when you are not left adequate room. No penalty should be required for getting nailed from behind. I just passed someone that was serving a penalty and they purposefully swerved and knocked me off track, setting me back 2 places and making serve a 3 second penalty. I have only played very few races since the update, usually 1 per night because its complete bs. someone let me know when they make improvements so I can come back and play.

 

[City01]

In the manufacture race yesterday, I got 1s penalty when out the pit. During the race, I thought it was because of a player drive close to the pit exit and caused some contact.

Checked replay. The truth is there is another player exiting pit nearly at the same moment. Both of us got 1s penalty innocently and out of our control.

 

[suprajef]

Sorry but the new SR has ruined it for me. no extra penalty should be required for going off track when you are not left adequate room. No penalty should be required for getting nailed from behind. I just passed someone that was serving a penalty and they purposefully swerved and knocked me off track, setting me back 2 places and making serve a 3 second penalty. I have only played very few races since the update, usually 1 per night because its complete bs. someone let me know when they make improvements so I can come back and play.

Have I raced with you before?

 

[Macboyilija]

Why does everybody think contact should be accepted and that it's "the norm". That is absolutely false.

Because that is the reason some people are in S mode. Time will do its job.

Still when watching Sven Jurgens you can see he is a fair driver. So belongs there. But still makes some “contact” mistakes. Imagine now an unfair driver. There you have it. The problem is the penalty system is changing on its way. Which is logical. But still is the reason why many people are not happy because the racing has changed.

 

[bmxmitch]

So it's contact that ruins the racing then. To many people race expecting contact in racing...

Why does everybody think contact should be accepted and that it's "the norm". That is absolutely false.

No, its not contacts that ruin the races, its the system that thinks the slightest touch is a attempt to bump someone of track. Thats ruining races!
It really gets annoying when someone behind you cant stop touching you slightly on corner entries or exits. Its not annoying that he touches my rear slightly, (that sounded wrong ) it just sucks that the game gives both a penalty for actually NOTHING!

And also no, I dont think contact is the norm for overtakes, it just happens from time to time. And 90% of the contacts I make with others are harmless, but get punished anyways.
The system simply doesnt work! And I cannot understand how people still try to defend this....

 

[Mr616]

No, its not contacts that ruin the races, its the system that thinks the slightest touch is a attempt to bump someone of track. Thats ruining races!
It really gets annoying when someone behind you cant stop touching you slightly on corner entries or exits. Its not annoying that he touches my rear slightly, (that sounded wrong ) it just sucks that the game gives both a penalty for actually NOTHING!

And also no, I dont think contact is the norm for overtakes, it just happens from time to time. And 90% of the contacts I make with others are harmless, but get punished anyways.
The system simply doesnt work! And I cannot understand how people still try to defend this....

I prefer a system that stops people driving like idiots. The last penalty system did that. As soon as they made it more forgiving, driving standards dropped.

SR:S is far to over populated and filled with drivers who either are not as clean as they think, or are gaming the system. Weather that is the system that needs a revision or not is up to PD, but that last penalty system definitely tidied up people driving and racing.

I have raced, and watched races of players who, quite frankly should be no where near SR:S. I've watched lobbies of DR:S SR:S and in no way did it look like I was watching the best of the best.

P.S you'd think any driver with an once of common sense, would drive accordingly and not be an inch off your bumper, because they risk a penalty. But they don't. They drive their way then cry about the system. That guy tapping you multiple times in a race should be nowhere near your type of ranking.

It needs a cull at top rank. How PD achieve this be it a revision of SR, penalties, whatever, it needs doing, and the only system so far that has come close is the heavy handed ultra harsh penalty system imo, so for now I'd take that.

I was done with this topic weeks ago, then raced under these new penalties and the idiot driving returned that very night, so prompted me to post again.

I'm done now though lol. I'm sure I've said my piece way more than once.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

I see the car behind going down the inside, so I give room and I try to keep as much speed as possible on the outside.

The other driving inititally gives me a car width, but as we get to the 150m braking board, I get closed in. As this contact happens, I tap the brakes and slightly lift off the throttle and there is a slight bit of contact when I get squeezed by the other driver.

I get a 2 second penalty. But obviously, that's my fault and I should be less risky and next time, not get squeezed just before a braking zone... The other driver gets no penalty at all, even though the other driver squeezed me and forced me to slow down.

I'm S/S, the other driver is A/S, if that affects penalties still.



Sorry for the rapid 'looking behind'. It looks terrible when looking back on footage but when actually driving, it doesn't slow me down. I'm used to it and it helps me know where cars are more. (I wouldn't have to look behind as much if the roof cam had a rear mirror)

 

[englishbob]

My problem with penalties sometimes is that sometimes corner cutting is permitted and sometimes it isn't. It just can't seem to make up its mind!

I thought motor sport rules where that if ALL 4 wheels leave the track (i.e. over the white line generally) then its a penalty.

I had something happen in qualifying yesterday and no matter how many times I play it back I can't see what I got penalised for!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I see the car behind going down the inside, so I give room and I try to keep as much speed as possible on the outside.

The other driving inititally gives me a car width, but as we get to the 150m braking board, I get closed in. As this contact happens, I tap the brakes and slightly lift off the throttle and there is a slight bit of contact when I get squeezed by the other driver.

I get a 2 second penalty. But obviously, that's my fault and I should be less risky and next time, not get squeezed just before a braking zone... The other driver gets no penalty at all, even though the other driver squeezed me and forced me to slow down.

I'm S/S, the other driver is A/S, if that affects penalties still.



Sorry for the rapid 'looking behind'. It looks terrible when looking back on footage but when actually driving, it doesn't slow me down. I'm used to it and it helps me know where cars are more. (I wouldn't have to look behind as much if the roof cam had a rear mirror)

The penalty system got that one right

the driver on the outside should be at least level (front axle in line with front axle) with the driver on the inside to have a claim to the racing line on corner exit.
If the driver on the inside is behind at corner exit, they must leave space for the driver on the outside.
If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision.

He had a claim to that space of track and you were in the way.

I doubt it's that sophisticated though. I think it always rules in favor of the car ahead no matter what happens. Just in this case it actually aligns with racing rules.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

The penalty system got that one right

the driver on the outside should be at least level (front axle in line with front axle) with the driver on the inside to have a claim to the racing line on corner exit.
If the driver on the inside is behind at corner exit, they must leave space for the driver on the outside.
If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision.

You can't just force someone off the track, or force someone to brake, on a straight.

This incident DOES NOT APPLY to the stuff you said because this was way after the corner exit.

I understand what you mean if this contact actually happened on the corner exit, but this is so far after the corner exit. It's on the straight.

 

[Spurgy 777]

The penalty system got that one right

the driver on the outside should be at least level (front axle in line with front axle) with the driver on the inside to have a claim to the racing line on corner exit.
If the driver on the inside is behind at corner exit, they must leave space for the driver on the outside.
If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision.

He had a claim to that space of track and you were in the way.

I doubt it's that sophisticated though. I think it always rules in favor of the car ahead no matter what happens. Just in this case it actually aligns with racing rules.

Where did you get that from? Sounds like complete nonsense to me, you can't just shove someone off track on exit because you're slightly ahead, that's not how racing works.

 

[Ginger yido]

My problem with penalties sometimes is that sometimes corner cutting is permitted and sometimes it isn't. It just can't seem to make up its mind!

I thought motor sport rules where that if ALL 4 wheels leave the track (i.e. over the white line generally) then its a penalty.

I had something happen in qualifying yesterday and no matter how many times I play it back I can't see what I got penalised for!

I think it's just here

 

[sabamber]

Where did you get that from? Sounds like complete nonsense to me, you can't just shove someone off track on exit because you're slightly ahead, that's not how racing works.

No you can’t, but Sven is correct - the driver who “loses” the corner is obliged to concede the place, or be responsible for any subsequent contact.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Where did you get that from? Sounds like complete nonsense to me, you can't just shove someone off track on exit because you're slightly ahead, that's not how racing works.

Ofcourse you can't shove them off the track
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/
However you can't block someone's line either by keeping your bumper in the way and forcing them to brake extra to avoid contact. That's not sportmanship, that's just slowing everyone down and inviting trouble from behind to catch up.

Anyway, I just got bumped at least 5 times by a B/S driver, he never got a penalty. In a different race I'm on the racing line, I am ahead and the car on the outside turns into me at the apex, I get a 3 sec penalty for him bouncing of my rear bumper, he gets nothing. It's getting very annoying how it discriminates on DR.