New Television Advice

[Submerged]

Hello All,

My father has mentioned to me that he is quite keen to acquire a new television, either Plasma or LCD, for the lounge. He has stated that he would prefer to have a screen size that is higher than a 42 inch screen, largely because the actual lounge just makes a 42 inch screen look quite small. This is because the room is 28 ft long and 16 ft wide. The current television is about 16 to 20 ft away from the two sofas that my father and my mother sit at. The new television would be at the same place. What would be the ideal screen size to help with immersion to the screen?

I know that he would prefer the best quality television for viewing with Standard Definition broadcast (he is unlikely to use HD broadcasting, preferring not to pay extra for something that he is already watching...), with regards to colour reproduction, no ghosting, useful features and at a relatively reasonable price.

Additionally, what are the brands or buzzwords to avoid and what are the ones that would be highly desirable?

Any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

 

[Grayfox]

Most TVs today if not all are HD ready or even Full HD ready.

I would recommend a Samsung Plasma or LED.

I doubt you want a 3D TV since these are more pricey.

A 120Hz TV will suffer from very little ghosting, and some TVs from the better brands allow you to play content off USB drives.

I am not a TV salesman so i can't really say what to avoid in terms of buzzwords.

 

[Submerged]

We have already have a 120Hz television and a standard 60Hz television. Personally, there isn't that much difference between the two, in terms of stutter, although I will say that the 120hz does seem to be smoother all the time. But that is also because it is two years newer than the other 40 inch plasma.

I do know that 60 and 120hz cannot really be told apart by the eye as it is just too fast for the eye to detect.

3D will NOT be brought at all, as my personal opinion of it is that it is just not worth the outlay for something that may or may not work. Plus, the parents all use glasses so it would be pointless for them.

What is your reasoning for recommending a Samsung plasma or LCD? I would prefer to hear peoples reasons and opinions. Also facts, if you have any.

With regards to SD transmissions, I was just stating that the television is expected to be a HD television (1080p, ideally) but it would be best to have one that works very well for SD transmissions as well as HD viewing. I do know that quite a few televisions that claim to be HD Ready are actually pretty dire with SD transmissions, which was really quite disappointing to see.

 

[Robin]

If you want a bigger screen size Plasma is the best way to go. They also produce the best images and do not suffer much motion blur the only problem is they are very reflective. I personally would recommend LG for Plasma because the build quality, design and functionality is very good. Panasonic is just a overrated brand IMO when it comes to Plasma due to massive fanboyness!

LCD TV's with high Hz ratings tend to make the picture look sped up whereas a Plasma with 600hz sub field driving for example will look pretty much the same as a CRT. I personally wouldn't bother with 3D, its still not really worth it with the lack of quality content out there.

As for SD content you really have to see the different brands picture for yourself, all up scale to the panels native resolution and how good it looks depends on the processing power of the TV. You should be getting a 1080p panel for sure these days, I don't know know how they can still flog 'HD Ready' stuff in 2011! Also most Plasma's come with Freeview HD built in now.

 

[bevo]

Panasonic is just a overrated brand IMO when it comes to Plasma due to massive fanboyness!

Panasonic plasma all the way. I have no idea why you would say they are overated. They really are the best there is with plasma since pioneer stopped making them. You can't get a better picture then a panny plasma. I've owned several plasma and lcd tv's and my panny is by far the best i have owned. It's got the best picture and it's still the only one that still works. It's my oldest TV, (besides my old 57 inch rear projection( and it's the only one that has never been repaired. A few of the other ones needed repairs and eventually just died after gettting fixed. 2 other plamsa and 3 LCD.

I can't recommend panasonic enough. They really do make the best TV out there. Maybe that's why there are so many fanboys of them.

 

[G.T]

I would recommend Panasonic also if you have the budget. Although Samsung/LG/Sony have very good plasma TVs, from what I've read Panasonic most of the time always seems to have the better quality displays. Probably due to them having teamed up with Pioneer for a good few years now (Pioneers are awesome, but in a totally different price bracket).

That being said, I wouldn't rule out other main brands though. I would suggest Samsungs otherwise - never had a problem with them and have the best picture quality compared to similar models. LGs have just been slightly below par and unreliable for me.

 

[bevo]

Why wouldn't He watch anything in HD. Isn't HD free for pretty much ever provider?

 

[nick09]

Why wouldn't He watch anything in HD. Isn't HD free for pretty much ever provider?

Nothing's free. It's included in the price. Such as Time Warner advertises just the TV alone with HDTV for 12 months is $49 monthly. That's without the HD boxes and any DVR's. Adding the top TV package will nearly double the price to $84. After a year the prices will increase and I would not know how much they charge after that since they don't say on the website. You should know that that's only the TV and not including any deals with included internet or phone. Which would naturally skyrocket after the deal time is over.

 

[Bdx]

Well you see i would recommend a TV but you seem anti 3d which is too bad really because the best 2d pictures are all on 3d equipped TVs.

If you want to get past your hate for a great new technology, then personally i would look into either a panasonic gt series TV ( which is what i own the 55" ) or a samsung d7000 or up series plasma.

IMO i would stay away from edge lit cheaper led sets, i returned mine the second i saw a football game with the ball turning into a cloud of pixels on the screen which after reading is a common issue with them. Brought it back the next day for a panny gt-31 set up.

Also to your sd point this panny set is by far the best sd picture i have ever seen on any flat screen though i very seldom waste my time watching sd content pretty much only top gear on bbc. Truthfully i cant wait for the day cable companies smarten up and get rid of sd channels entirely!

 

[nick09]

Also to your sd point this panny set is by far the best sd picture i have ever seen on any flat screen though i very seldom waste my time watching sd content pretty much only top gear on bbc. Truthfully i cant wait for the day cable companies smarten up and get rid of sd channels entirely!

That's because of bandwidth costs and having bigger and better broadcasting equipment is expensive. You need more bandwidth to broadcast a HD signal compared to an SD signal. Sure SD will die off someday for your average consumer but there are still people who don't have money to upgrade or too stubborn to upgrade right now. Heck this 4-5 year old "HDReady" CRT HDTV I'm using right now can't keep the 720P and 1080i signals within the borders of the screen. My dad is not likely to upgrade till it breaks since he is a stubborn cheapskate. The comparable 35" LCD HDTV with LED are pretty cheap now but that's not going to make him upgrade yet.

 

[Grayfox]

What is your reasoning for recommending a Samsung plasma or LCD?

Samsung is a very good brand for LCD,LED and Plasmas but this is just my opinion.

 

[TB]

If the room has a lot of windows or is very bright, skip the plasma unless it has a matte screen (which I'm not sure if that's even an option). As it's almost like looking in a mirror, the glare makes it almost unwatchable, but in the evenings it's outstanding.

As for the size, according to this Viewing Distance Calculator, it says you should have at least a 55" display if you're sitting 20 feet away and ideally you'd sit 6.1 feet away from the same 55". Sure, THX. That's likely to happen. While 55" might sound large, and it's by no means a small display, trust me. You'll get used to it fairly quickly. Provided the room can handle it and at 16'x28' it can, you'll kick yourself for not going as large as you can for the price and options you're comfortable with.

Looking through the top displays on Consumer Reports, and I'm not ambitious enough to cross reference what you have available in the UK, these are the front runners based on SD picture quality and overall score:

3D capable plasmas:
Samsung PN59D7000
Panasonic Viera TC-P55VT30
LG 50PZ550

Non-3D capable plasmas:
Panasonic Viera TC-P50S30
LG 50PV450
Samsung PN51D450

LCD:
Sanyo DP52440
Vizio XVT553SV TruLED
Samsung LN52C530

Provided glare isn't an issue, I'd be looking at the three in the non-3D category as they are easily the best bang for your buck in terms of size and quality.

 

[Robin]

Probably due to them having teamed up with Pioneer for a good few years now (Pioneers are awesome, but in a totally different price bracket).

This, I hear it ALL the time.

No Panasonic plasma has ever incorporated Pioneer Kuro technology to produce and equivalent / superior picture, if they did they would cost a similar amount.

It was a very clever PR stunt by Panasonic to buy the IP and hire some of the engineers but never actually use any of it in their panels. People then went in droves to them thinking they were getting the spiritual successors to the legendary TV's. This is mainly why they are overrated by both consumers and reviewers.

This is the same stunt Sharp recently pulled buy purchasing the 'Elite' name for their new LCD TV's. Gullible people will think its the same as the Pioneer Elite's.

I'm not saying Panansonic Plasma's are bad in any way, just don't going buying them because people say 'oh they have Kuro tech in them therefore they are the best'. Samsung and LG (the other two makers left) are not to disregarded and I feel the Panny thing is much like Sony fanboyness, there are other companies worth looking it.

 

[G.T]

Have a link to prove they aren't really part of Panasonic?

 

[wfooshee]

I recently picked up a 51 Samsung 3D plasma. I got it because it was on sale, and the only plasma in any store in town that would do 1080p, not because it was 3d.

I wanted plasma because of the motion blur in LCD sets. And don't tell me the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz can't be seen by eye. The 120s are better thatn the 60s, but LCDs, by their nature, simply cannot keep up with rapid pixel change the way plasma sets can, and when stuff moves fast on the screen, usually sports action, LCDs just become unviewable for me.

I found many plasmas available locally, but almost always limited to 720p, probably for price. This one was on sale at Best buy for 250 bucks off the regular price. It was still the most expensive set I considered. 3D didn't enter into the purchase decision, but having since acquired some 3D BluRay movies, and having found 3D on-demand on my cable box, I'm not sorry I have it. And like any technology, it can be done well or done miserably. On-demand had a 3D show from the Concours at Pebble Beach that was phenomenal. Then there was a documentary on the final shuttle launch that I turned off, it was so badly done.

My recommendation is plasma, unless the viewing room is brightly daylit. It doesn't have to be DARK, like a movie theater, but full sun will cause everything in the room to reflect on the screen and interfere with viewing. My own room is about cloudy-day bright when I close the window covering on a bright sunny day, and it's fine.

Keep in mind that any sets, LCD or plasma, will get pricey very quickly as the size goes up. The 51 is actually smaller than I wanted for a 16' viewing distance. It's smaller vertically than the 43" 4:3 set it replaced. (But my 4:3 set letterboxed HD input to 16:9, so my HD viewing is still larger than before.) But even to step just to 55 was several hundred dollars more, and 60 was well out of reach. Not to mention that none of those were plasma, at least locally available.

 

[Robin]

Have a link to prove they aren't really part of Panasonic?

They are now part of Panasonic, they bought Pioneer's TV business (their intellectual property) a few years ago but have never used it on any model.

 

[G.T]

They are now part of Panasonic, they bought Pioneer's TV business (their intellectual property) a few years ago but have never used it on any model.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/Panasonic-Uses-Pioneer-Kuro-Tech-to-Make-5M-1-HDTV-Line

?

Edit: Just to add I never said they would produce the same quality as an actual Pioneer set. Just slightly better quality than some of the competition.

 

[Robin]

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/Panasonic-Uses-Pioneer-Kuro-Tech-to-Make-5M-1-HDTV-Line

With the announcement of 'Viera G2' plasma series it seems Panasonic may finally have given us a genuine successor to Pioneer's remarkable Kuro models.

There has never been proof of a Kuro technology equipped model even today (through a hardware tear down etc). Also if it really did have that stuff on-board it would equal the quality (especially black level) which no set from any manufacturer has ever managed to do. They say every year that Panasonic is going to produce a true Kuro successor.... its never happened.

Edit: Just to add I never said they would produce the same quality as an actual Pioneer set. Just slightly better quality than some of the competition.

That's fine, its only the 'Panasonic = Pioneer = Better' mindset out there that I object to.

 

[Endless-Wilso]

So interms of motion blur how do LED sets compare with a Plasma set, this thread has touched on LCD's and Plasmas but i haven't heard much about LED's?

 

[Grayfox]

Are not LED just normal LCD with the LED backlight instead of a flurotube backlight.

 

[Endless-Wilso]

Im not a expert so idk but that sounds possible

 

[Endless-Wilso]

Yep mb they are
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED-backlit_LCD_television
but apparently they can have a change on picture quality.
this sums it up
http://www.hdplasmatvreviews.com/plasma-vs-lcd-vs-led-tv/

 

[Casio]

Are not LED just normal LCD with the LED backlight instead of a flurotube backlight.

Yup.

And given that most consumer LED TVs are edgelit rather than backlit (So they can't take advantage of local dimming), I don't rate LED TVs that highly.

 

[Robin]

So interms of motion blur how do LED sets compare with a Plasma set, this thread has touched on LCD's and Plasmas but i haven't heard much about LED's?

LCD and LED are basically the same thing its just the way they are lit thats different, if your going to go LED make sure you get backlit LED models with local dimming because they give the best contrast ratio of the two.

Plasma's have the lowest motion blur because they operate much like a CRT therefore react faster than LCD/LED. There still can be some blur but its better than artificially processed images on LCD like MotionFlow or TruMotion which can make images seem sped up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation

Robin.

 

[toyotsupra]

I'm currently using Samsung 32inch tv 60hz 1080p on gt5 and it does look good but the framerate does drop sometimes when there are loads of cars driving past maybe that's to do with the PS3 rather then the TV what do you think? Also We have a TV downstairs 42inch pioneer Plasma TV which is good thinking about getting Apple TV for downstairs on the bigger tv. I'm definately thinking about buying a LED TV in the future and maybe sell the 42inch pioneer do you think I should do that?

 

[eSZee]

Dude, look how long ago the last reply was.

 

[Submerged]

Just to update on everyone about the final choice of television.

My father, after reading some reviews online has decided to opt for a Panasonic Viera V50 2011 version. At least, that is what I believe the model number is. It might be a V30 50 inch version. I forget exactly which size it is, but I assume it is a 50 inch, rather than the 55. I may be wrong. It is a plasma version.

Anyway, he is waiting for January to come around to try and snag on for a bit cheaper than 2 grand. I think he is hoping to get one for about 1,500 quid or less to get it on budget.

His view was that the review sites all seem to praise the Panasonic very highly and that the quality of the screen seems to be the best one of the current bunch. He is more bothered by realistic or natural colours from the plasma, rather than the harsh and cold colours one can get from LCD/LED.

Personally, I would have leant toward the GT30 50 inch one, as its basically the same as the V30, just not as steeply priced and seems to be better priced (closer to the grand mark). Although you don't get the fancy backlighted remote control (which isn't really needed).

Anyone know anywhere to go to, online or brick and mortar shops for January sales for electronics?

 

[Sureboss]

You won't find many better places than Richer Sounds. Recently bought a Panasonic Viera TX37E30B from there (probably not quite the right model number but meh). Backlit LED, superb quality and not much over £500.

Have to say, I think going for a nice TV of that size, with those capabilities and not getting HD is odd, least not because HD packages in the UK are cheap. What's your current setup?

If you're with Sky you can upgrade to the Sky HD+ 250GB box for free (self-install, which is easy) with £100 of M&S vouchers and the HD pack is only £10 a month. If you're watching a lot of sport/natural history type progs then it is well worth it.

Richer Sounds will provide you with superb advice (or at least our local store do), you planning on doing any audio changes?

 

[Submerged]

Ah, the television (that has been chosen) comes with HD Freeview and HD FreeSAT. We have recently upgraded the kitchen television to a 24 inch LCD that has some HD Freeview channels in it. I can definitely tell the differences, especially the subtitles. So can the rest of the family as well, even though it is only 24 inch.

We do have Sky, but my father isn't very keen to pay more for the HD content to line the Murdoch family (neither am I). By this, I mean that even though you will get the HD box for nothing, the extra 10 quid he would have to pay to receive the HD content would be something he would find difficult to justify, considering he would be getting HD content through Freeview and FreeSat for no extra charge (as I understand it).

We do have a Richer Sounds shop somewhere in Leicester, so will steer my father toward that way. Sound wise, I did mention to him that I could look into that for him, as we cannot get off-the-shelf cinema surround kits. Not due to the price, but because of the layout of the room and seating position of everyone. Basically, its something like 28 feet long and 16 feet wide, but the viewing area is kinda odd and this means that the speakers all have to be positioned awkwardly and would look quite out of place.

I was trying to look into getting separates, but just didn't manage to easily plan out how to place the speakers and adjust them to be suitable for the room itself, including the subwoofer... It kinda made my head hurt.