Newsflash: Jailbreaking discussion is fine. PS3/XB360 = No.

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I'm tired of seeing things about this, so I'm just going to put this out there.

Jailbreaking your iOS devices is perfectly legal. It used to not be, but it is now, and has been for quite a while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_jailbreaking#United_States_legal_status

PS3/XB360 are not however. Any discussion on them will more than likely mean some form of a warning issued to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Jailbreak

So please, at least read this stuff, look it up for yourself and be informed. Because I'm tired of seeing users go "Gee Idunno if you should talk about that it might break the AUP"



Mods and other users, chime in with relevant posts that help support this. I've seen some moderator posts about it, I just don't feel like tracking them down myself.
 
Thanks, I'm hoping the mods will also chime in as well. I know I've seen a few posts with regards to how Jordan sees the issue I just can't find them at the moment.
 
Sorry, but how does that Wiki link say that PS3 Jailbreaking is illegal?
 
How can jailbreaking a PS3/Xbox possibly be illegal, anyway? Has Congress passed some bill saying thou shalt not, or some such? Otherwise, why can't I do anything I want with physical property I've purchased?
 
Yeah, all I'm getting from this is that it's illegal in Australia, buying or selling that specific, exact type of modchip, that is. There are other devices and different ways to go about such things, if you desire, anyway. (I'm not inclined to go into detail about anything like that on this site regardless.) I think you're confusing corporate frustration with actual set in stone, non grey-area law.
 
Yeah, all I'm getting from this is that it's illegal in Australia, buying or selling that specific, exact type of modchip, that is.

Exactly.

If you click on and bother to read the reference link, and be informed, it even says 'Jailbreaking' PS3s is not illegal.

1) A retailer tells us the ban is specifically related to the "PS Jailbreak" brand of devices, and is not a blanket ban on all PS3 jailbreak solutions.
 
The iOS thing is years old, so don't see why this is a newflash.

The issues with the PS3/XBOX jailbreak revolve around how the DMCA is understood by some judges, and rather hilarious EULA terms for the PS3 and XBOX. I really don't think there would ever be a successful case against someone on these, but technically a case could be generated.
 
The big issue with "jailbreaking" an XBox or a PS3 is that this allows access to and utilization of pirated video games.

"Jailbreaking" an iPhone is not done for purposes of piracy. It's to use non-Apple apps on an Apple device and to alter operating parameters. Something which you can do with Androids, only they don't call it jailbreaking there, since you're free to do whatever the hell you want with your Android phone.

Now, granted that PS3 "jailbreaking" can be used to reimplement "OtherOS" functionality, but 99.9999 times out of 100, people are jailbreaking PS3s to play pirated games. Which is why the subject is strictly taboo here on the forums.
 

Now, granted that PS3 "jailbreaking" can be used to reimplement "OtherOS" functionality, but 99.9999 times out of 100, people are jailbreaking PS3s to play pirated games. Which is why the subject is strictly taboo here on the forums.

Not sure who I spoke with in the staff about it, but from what I understand, Jordan has expressed stated he doesn't it discussed here. Which over rides any other opinions on the matter, seeing how he owns the place.

Though I think there is some validity in PS3 jailbreak, if just to be able to load other operating systems, as Sony doesn't seem to keen on anything of that sort these days. They are doing what they always do, which is have neat hardware, implement terrible software, and then try to lock down the format and details heavily.
 
The big issue with "jailbreaking" an XBox or a PS3 is that this allows access to and utilization of pirated video games.

"Jailbreaking" an iPhone is not done for purposes of piracy. It's to use non-Apple apps on an Apple device and to alter operating parameters. Something which you can do with Androids, only they don't call it jailbreaking there, since you're free to do whatever the hell you want with your Android phone.

Now, granted that PS3 "jailbreaking" can be used to reimplement "OtherOS" functionality, but 99.9999 times out of 100, people are jailbreaking PS3s to play pirated games. Which is why the subject is strictly taboo here on the forums.

This is why I don't get into this here. PS3 especially. Sony pretty much killed any chance of there being a thriving homebrew scene for the PS3, sadly. It's different on other consoles, like the DS, which has huge amounts of homebrew software out there for it and a scene that is geared toward helping users make the most of their hardware.

I'm not going out of my way to try to hate on Sony. The PS3 is a great bit of tech. I just wish things were way more open.
 
The big issue with "jailbreaking" an XBox or a PS3 is that this allows access to and utilization of pirated video games.

"Jailbreaking" an iPhone is not done for purposes of piracy. It's to use non-Apple apps on an Apple device and to alter operating parameters.

That's not true because jailbreaking an iPhone can open up the possibility for piracy just as much as a games console (paid apps and 'i'games being cracked and DL'd for free). There is in reality no difference in the potential wrongdoing that can be done on either platform its just that games companies are being particularly hard line on the issue and are basically in their own way going against the law (oh the irony).

I bet it will only be a matter of time before a court finds jailbreaking consoles specifically to be legal (currently it seems only doing it on smartphones is legal) and then talented people who want to tinker with the hardware for good not bad won't be thrown into prison!
 

Now, granted that PS3 "jailbreaking" can be used to reimplement "OtherOS" functionality, but 99.9999 times out of 100, people are jailbreaking PS3s to play pirated games. Which is why the subject is strictly taboo here on the forums.

Well that's my issue here. I'd be only interested in installing linux, which is a capability it once had anyway. I don't even play games, outside of GT4 and an ancient MS-DOS game called Empire, on any sort of regular basis.


Of course Jordan is well within his rights to arbitrarily ban any subject he cares to for any reason whatsoever or for no reason (this was my policy as well back in the day, when I ran a BBS); it's his forum after all. Does that, however, cover things like this discussion we're having here?

Edit: Plus what Robin said.
 
I bet it will only be a matter of time before a court finds jailbreaking consoles specifically to be legal (currently it seems only doing it on smartphones is legal) and then talented people who want to tinker with the hardware for good not bad won't be thrown into prison!

The court ruling that determined Jailbreak was legal was specifically ruled for Apple devices.

Android is a different topic because Google provides the dev tools, source code, etc to make it user editable and has made it rather easy to root devices and even run different versions of the operating system on various devices.

Not sure about Rim products, but there is little demand as they are used for business applications mostly where you want security of a closed system.
 
Here's a suggestion: Don't talk about JailBreaking at all, no matter what device. If you're a newbee and need help with JailBreaking your iPhone, go ask at a dedicated forum or something, not risk a warning if you word things wrongly or such.

EDIT: And, if you want to JailBreak your XBox or PS3, bugger off and go ask at an illegal, dedicated site, where you'll be tracked down by the FBI, and eaten by dogs. ;)👍
 
If I want to jailbreak my PS3 to run a proprietary Linux-based operating system... why shouldnt I be allow to discuss it here? dont tell me thats illegal (Newsflash the US military does it) ... Jailbreaking the PS3 isnt illegal in most countries, what is illegal is downloading games for free and playing them.
 
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If I want to jailbreak my PS3 to run a proprietary Linux-based operating system... why shouldnt I be allow to discuss it here? dont tell me thats illegal... Jailbreaking the PS3 isnt illegal in most countries, what is illegal is downloading games for free and playing them.

How about the site owner said he doesn't want it discussed here? Go talk about it elsewhere.
 
Here's a suggestion: Don't talk about JailBreaking at all, no matter what device. If you're a newbee and need help with JailBreaking your iPhone, go ask at a dedicated forum or something, not risk a warning if you word things wrongly or such.

If you haven't read anything in here, and it seems you have, Jailbreak was declared legal at the Federal level in the US, and is on the DMCA Exemption list.

Here is an article on it

There is no question to the legality of Jailbreaking in the US, which is where this site is based and tends to serve as the basis for policy on it.

EDIT: And, if you want to JailBreak your XBox or PS3, bugger off and go ask at an illegal, dedicated site, where you'll be tracked down by the FBI, and eaten by dogs. ;)👍

Because that is what the FBI does... :rolleyes:

Or that those sites are illegal...

If I want to jailbreak my PS3 to run a proprietary Linux-based operating system... why shouldnt I be allow to discuss it here? dont tell me thats illegal (Newsflash the US military does it) ... Jailbreaking the PS3 isnt illegal in most countries, what is illegal is downloading games for free and playing them.

Site owner doesn't want you to, so that is enough reason.

That aside, the military was using older models that Linux was allowed to be sideloaded onto from Sony. I'm not sure how many they've purchased since the change in the OS for the PS3 or how Sony is handling other operating systems on the device.
 
Basically, it's that. Jordan doesn't want a discussion that promotes piracy or the discussion or distribution of specific software and methods for removing hardware protection that prevents piracy.

As stated in the AUP:


You will not use these forums for the purposes of sharing or distributing viruses, licenses, registration information, software keys, pirated commercial multimedia files, “cracks”, or other information designed to do harm to or allow unlawful access to any computer software or systems.

In other words, jailbreaking consoles is taboo. Taboo because even if it is not illegal in and of itself in all one hundred and fifty-odd countries of the world (just wait... after the Arab Spring, we'll have lots of new little ones to memorize), it is used to allow illegal downloading and running of game software.

Perhaps we're a bit soft on Apple Jailbreaks because their primary purpose is to allow Android-like access to phone system functions. But if there seems to be a danger of the talk swaying towards access to illegally hacked apps, then Jordan may decide it's taboo, too.

The discussion of the ethics, legality and implication of jailbreaking is not taboo... which is why we had a discussion on the GeoHotz issue a while back... but actually posting links on how to do jailbreaks or even encouraging people to perform jailbreaks or to illegally acquire what should be paid content is.
 

The discussion of the ethics, legality and implication of jailbreaking is not taboo... which is why we had a discussion on the GeoHotz issue a while back... but actually posting links on how to do jailbreaks or even encouraging people to perform jailbreaks or to illegally acquire what should be paid content is.

Okay, niky, thanks for clearing that up! 👍

What I'd like to know though, is what law, specifically, is violated by jailbreaking a PS3/Xbox? It can't be a software license violation if one isn't running their software. I can take apart and modify anything else I purchase over the counter, what special exemption is made for consoles?
 
The way I'm reading the AUP is that its fine to discuss the ethics and arguments about jail-breaking but your not allowed to discuss actually HOW to do it.

This was an interesting interview with a PS3 jailbreaker and he explains his side of the argument.

jailbreaker interview
Every three years, the US Copyright Office reviews requests for exemptions to the “anti-circumvention” rules in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, with the next review set for this Friday. Will jailbreaking be classified a crime?

Jailbreaking – the act of circumventing a system’s security to access its inner files and be able to do what you want with the system – was previously ruled legal on mobile devices like iPhones and iPads, but with the PS3 it’s a little different. While the general consensus is that it is legal, Sony continues to pursue action against the modding and cracking community as a true precedent has yet to be set (Geohotz settled out of court). But Friday’s review could change all that, and clearly define jailbreaking as illegal, or legal.

We asked the developer of the first “Modified Firmware” for the PlayStation 3 and leading industry figure Youness Alaoui (known as KaKaRoTo) about his thoughts on the matter. He replied:

We own computers and we use them any way we want, and that’s normal and legal. But recently, most of our devices, have become full fledged computers. The PlayStation 3 is a computer, referred to by Sony as a “Computer Entertainment System” and which could even run Linux at one point. When we buy a PS3, we own it, but we are locked out of it by Sony for no reason other than for them to impose on us a flawed business model.

My PlayStation 3, for example, is full of spyware (you should see the kind of personal information it sends without your knowledge), adware (all those “PSN Store” icons in every XMB category, the “What’s new”, Video unlimited, Netflix, NHL, etc.. icons) and malware (removal of OtherOS, removal of copy to PSP feature, forced silent updates, etc..) which Sony forcefully installed without my consent and I have no way to uninstall them. When you get spyware/adware/malware installed on your PC, it is considered a “virus” and you must uninstall it, and you have tools for that, but with the PS3, you can’t, and the tools to do that are considered illegal.

Jailbreaking allows us to gain back control of our own devices. I buy my device, I own it. While I do not own the operating system/software that runs on it, I am forced to use it to run the machine. What if I don’t want to agree to their terms of service anymore (which change every other week, and rob me of my constitutional rights), what if I don’t want to use their software anymore? I should be allowed to legally jailbreak the device and completely replace the software, the operating system, with one that I approve. If I can’t replace the operating system, then my property (the hardware) cannot be used anymore, and Sony basically stole my money. I sign a user agreement to use their software, but the hardware is mine and I don’t want their software anymore.

Jailbreaking is not a crime, Jailbreaking is about freedom and doing what’s right. And while pirating software is a crime and cheating online is immoral and unethical, the act of jailbreaking in itself is not and should not be considered a crime.

It is time to make our voice heard and let everyone know that we cannot tolerate being dictated what to do and how to do it, being forced to see ads everyday and then being called criminals for requesting our fundamental rights. It is time to refuse having our property defaced with their adware, our privacy violated with their spyware, and our freedom forgotten by their lawyers.

Jailbreaking is not a crime.
 
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Okay, niky, thanks for clearing that up! 👍

What I'd like to know though, is what law, specifically, is violated by jailbreaking a PS3/Xbox? It can't be a software license violation if one isn't running their software. I can take apart and modify anything else I purchase over the counter, what special exemption is made for consoles?

Specifically the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), regarding circumventing of copy protection systems and DRM.

Robin posted a relevant article on it.
 
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