Nintendo E3 2008 - Thoughts?

[YSSMAN]

The full blog of the events can be read/seen here...

I've heard some comments of Nintendo being a bit boring in this conference, but personally speaking, I found their announcements to be fairly exciting, and to a greater sense pointing towards a very bright future for the console.

I think more than anything we're going to see the updated Wii controller making a big difference in the way that we're playing Wii games. With the better range of motion, we're going to see games be more accurate, and hopefully, even more fun.

I can see Wii Music being popular with the increasingly large elderly gaming group, people like my Grandparents in particular, who absolutely love the Wii. While I am impartial to games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero, games like these will be much easier for less-skilled people to play, and to that end, it opens up a much larger portion of the market.

Although, that was a bit embarrassing to watch...

However, I noticed that there weren't a huge number of game announcements to blow us away. Clearly its becoming more about the hardware and the mini games, which doesn't seem like a bad way to go about it. Either way you look at it, Nintendo is blowing Sony and Microsoft out of the water in terms of sales, and it has proven that their formula for this "next generation" of gaming has in fact worked.

And to be completely honest, I'm kicking myself for skipping the purchase of a Wii...

 

[Earth]

lol

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/239893.html

I'll get the next 'proper' Nintendo console. It should be great with all the funds they're getting now.

 

[Solid Fro]

I saw that video on Game Trailers as well. The most disturbing thing about it was that they actually received applause after that freak show Nintendo calls Wii Music. I could have never imagined Nintendo fanboys are that delusional. The guys at Screw Attack are pretty big fanboys themselves and even they felt ashamed.

I don't know how anyone deems anything Nintendo showed to be acceptable as video games. Maybe all that Reggie needs to do is wear a colorful outfit and play his pipe... the children will follow behind.

Where has the real Nintendo gone?

 

[FoolKiller]

So, Wii Music is Rock Band without the coolness?
I believe Yahtzee said it best when he said, "If you are going to make some games that humiliate the player the least you can do is have some decent music in it." This seems to humiliate the player even more without the cool music, so far.

And is that the actual gameplay video what was on the screen? How do you know what to do?



The other thing that got me with Nintendo was their upgrade to the motion sensing technology. Sell millions of consoles and then say, "Hey, we just made it better if you buy this $25 add-on!" It already has too many add-ons. It is actually more expensive to get a complete Wii controller (Remote + Nunchuck) than it is to get a Dualshock 3.

I'm not trying to hate on the Wii. I have one and I do enjoy the games, but ever since I realized the best money I spent on an add-on/peripheral was to buy a Gamecube Wavebird I have decided I won't buy anymore until I test them out first.

They had the potential to make the motion control really awesome and not a gimmick (the Tiger Woods golf games show this) but it is becoming more gimmicky. At first I thought it was just third-party devs, but Wii Music and Wii Fit are coming off as way too gimmicky for me. And throwing out an upgrade to motion sensing is just too much.

I will only consider getting that if it will make my golf short game controls more accurate.

 

[Tornado]

I saw that video on Game Trailers as well. The most disturbing thing about it was that they actually received applause after that freak show Nintendo calls Wii Music. I could have never imagined Nintendo fanboys are that delusional. The guys at Screw Attack are pretty big fanboys themselves and even they felt ashamed.

I don't know how anyone deems anything Nintendo showed to be acceptable as video games. Maybe all that Reggie needs to do is wear a colorful outfit and play his pipe... the children will follow behind.

Where has the real Nintendo gone?

Scary though it may be, I agree with this fully. Nintendo has turned into what is the video game equivalent to a bank, and so has their businesss ideals. After Smash Bros. came out (to which I was ecstatic for the few hours that I played it until I decided that I like Melee more), it dawned on me that Nintendo has nothing else announced that is actually a game, and now that the first party lineup as well is starting to just turn into $50 gimmicks I think the Wii should start to run its course. I merely hope that Nintendo has an actual console in the works ready to replace it when the Wii starts to crash and burn, rather than let it sputter on life support for a couple of years like they did with the Gamecube and N64.

The idea of the improved Wiimote makes me physically sick as well.

 

[Solid Fro]

Scary though it may be, I agree with this fully.

Act calmly, do not make any sudden movements. Slowly lay down and gently place the pillow over your face.

The idea of the improved Wiimote makes me physically sick as well.

Nintendo has a long history of doing this. Expansion Paks, Rumble Paks, microphone attachments, Gameboy attachments, Wavebirds, etc.

On another note: What happened to Reggie's big E3 announcement? You know, the "...big game for the holiday that the gamers will want" thingy? Don't tell me it was Wii Music...

http://kotaku.com/368326/reggie-teases-nintendos-big-holiday-game-will-be-revealed-at-e3

 

[Robin]

I think that motion plus thing is a total con...

Firstly it should have shipped with it built in, its almost like they convieniently dumbed it down so they could screw every wii ower on earth and their 4 controllers out of more cash (likely to cost more than half of a new remote).. A bit like the sixaxis should have shipped with rumble (actaully in this instance I would have prefered a plug in update ).

Secondly, overtime motion plus is likely to be manditory on all games which will leave consumers with no choice... what next! an add on more powerful rumble pack, speaker enhancer, large battery pack??.... eventually it will weigh a ton!

But as has been mentioned Nintendo have had a history of adding stuff on constantly so it really comes a no suprise but I which console makers have the forsight for this stuff, you can't be telling me this better sensor was just invented! they just wanted to see how well the wii would do before adding expense to it.

Robin.

 

[Solid Fro]

Miyamoto: Wii Music is "Better than a video game."

http://kotaku.com/5026431/miyamoto-wii-music-is-better-than-a-video-game

Aye aye, Captain Ahab!

 

[Omnis]

Miyamoto: Wii Music is "Better than a video game."

http://kotaku.com/5026431/miyamoto-wii-music-is-better-than-a-video-game

Aye aye, Captain Ahab!

Nintendo is obviously transforming the Wii into a [insert random childhood toy] replacement. It's a great move for making money. Just think of all the money that gets spent on toys and other crap that kids throw tantrums over. Miyamoto wants to make sure that there will be tantrums for his Wii products as well.

 

[Solid Fro]

If Nintendo is in a transformation, when does Nintendo become a toy company and not a video game company/publisher/developer?

When I walk into the electronics section of the store, I don't want to see toys.

 

[Omnis]

If Nintendo is in a transformation, when does Nintendo become a toy company and not a video game company/publisher/developer?

When I walk into the electronics section of the store, I don't want to see toys.

Video games and systems are toys. Nintendo was a textiles company at one point.

You're right, though-- Nintendo was always great because it could be enjoyed by a mature audience while still tapping into childlike delight. I just hope they don't make that childlike feeling into a drool-bin googoo-gaga thing.

 

[FoolKiller]

I just hope they don't make that childlike feeling into a drool-bin googoo-gaga thing.

Too late.

 

[Scaff]

And to be completely honest, I'm kicking myself for skipping the purchase of a Wii...

I'm doing the opposite, kicking myself for actually buying one.

While it was bought mainly for the kids, and they do play on it (but not as much as they use there PSP's) I have been totally and utterly underwhelmed by it.

I've rented a fair few games for it and with the exception of 'No More Heroes', each and every one has been a massive let down.

The price of the damn thing once you get all the 'add-ons' is hideous, and to be charged extra for a web-browser is insane.

The single thing I use it for now is WiiFit (and that was a bloody expensive slab of plastic as well), and it certainly seems as if Nintendo don't want to bother making any descent games for it in the future either.

Not a happy bunny, particularly as it was a close call between a pair of these in piano black lacquer....

...and the Wii.

Hell I could of got my new speakers, bought the kids a few PSP games and taken up jogging. I know I would have been happier.


Wii = one of the worst investments I have ever made.

Grrrrrrr (rant over)

Scaff

 

[FoolKiller]

Here is an interesting read from Joystiq regarding Nintendo's showing at E3 (pic included for epicness).

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/18/miyamoto-says-nintendo-not-targeting-core-with-e3/

Miyamoto says Nintendo not targeting core with E3
by Justin McElroy Jul 18th 2008 11:50PM
Filed under: Nintendo Wii

That niggling feeling in the back of your head that Nintendo wasn't talking to you with their E3 press conference? Good news: It wasn't your imagination! Straight from the mouth of Shigeru Miyamoto, the company says that they're not using E3 to speak to the core gamer anymore. Yeah, thanks Shiggy, we pieced it together.

What, you ask, are they using E3 for? Well Miyamoto describes it as "an opportunity for [them] to introduce new concepts and new types of play that [they] intend to bring to the broader audience, particularly because of the media that gathers at E3 now." So, there you have it. Hey ... does that mean that we don't have to go anymore?

 

[Solid Fro]

I believe Nintendo is truly delusional now.

Instead of catering to the "core" gamers who will purchase Nintendo products without question, Nintendo would rather focus on "the broader audience" who will more likely abandon Nintendo as just a fad?

:shakes head:

Oooh, this will make me feel better:

 

[Wolfe]

On the topic of the Wii MotionPlus, it's a perfectly acceptable gut reaction to ask why they didn't just put that into the controller to begin with, but it really would have just added to the cost, size, and weight of the standard Wiimote. Why burden it for the sake of an extra bit of accuracy and control that 50% of Wii games will never use and another 45% will use poorly? Would you really have wanted that extra motion control for Chicken Shoot? I'm not happy to spend more money on a controller upgrade, but I think I would have been more cross had I been forced to buy four $60 Wiimotes. Like the Nunchucks, I predict you'll have little reason to have more than one or two Wii MotionPlusses.

As for Nintendo selling out, in my opinion they can do whatever the hell they want as long as they continue to also make games I enjoy. They don't make you buy WiiPlay, WiiFit, Mario & Sonic at the Cheap Budget Games, or any of the other gimmicky stuff (har har if you just said "what else is there"). I didn't, and I'm happy.

I was expecting my Wii to be a multiplayer machine, and with Brawl alone it has filled that role nicely, but it's also provided one of the best single-player gaming experiences I've ever gotten out of a console. Metroid Prime 3, No More Heroes, Super Mario Galaxy, and Okami have made the investment worthwhile. I hope third-party developers can get their act together, but if they don't I won't feel cheated like I did with the GameCube.

 

[FoolKiller]

On the topic of the Wii MotionPlus, it's a perfectly acceptable gut reaction to ask why they didn't just put that into the controller to begin with, but it really would have just added to the cost, size, and weight of the standard Wiimote. Why burden it for the sake of an extra bit of accuracy and control that 50% of Wii games will never use and another 45% will use poorly? Would you really have wanted that extra motion control for Chicken Shoot? I'm not happy to spend more money on a controller upgrade, but I think I would have been more cross had I been forced to buy four $60 Wiimotes. Like the Nunchucks, I predict you'll have little reason to have more than one or two Wii MotionPlusses.

The problem here is that the PR line on the Motion Plus sounds like exactly the same line they gave us to sell us on the Wii in the first place. Granted it isn't, because they just talked motion control, but they pushed it enough to make people think that any game that involved killing would involve actually acting out the murder. People thought we were looking at 1:1 motion possibilities to the point that everyone keeps waiting for a sword fighting or Lightsaber game to emerge. Now it is looking like it never happened because it couldn't, which shocked everyone.

It isn't that I personally think Nintendo is trying to get more out of me now, because I understand there were technical complications before, but during that before time they didn't mention it wouldn't do what everyone wanted. If anything they have justified the waggle comments that have been made thus far.

All that said, I am likely to buy one or two of these and a new golf game that uses it if it will get my putting accurate.

As for Nintendo selling out, in my opinion they can do whatever the hell they want as long as they continue to also make games I enjoy. They don't make you buy WiiPlay, WiiFit, Mario & Sonic at the Cheap Budget Games, or any of the other gimmicky stuff (har har if you just said "what else is there"). I didn't, and I'm happy.

I don't think it is selling out. From the beginning they said that they wanted to open the door to a larger market, and they have. I would be blind to say that the Wii isn't doing what Nintendo initially attempted to do with the Famicon/NES. The problem is that the Famicon didn't achieve that goal and in the time since they have not played that angle. So now their main demographic is not their current target.

I was expecting my Wii to be a multiplayer machine, and with Brawl alone it has filled that role nicely, but it's also provided one of the best single-player gaming experiences I've ever gotten out of a console. Metroid Prime 3, No More Heroes, Super Mario Galaxy, and Okami have made the investment worthwhile. I hope third-party developers can get their act together, but if they don't I won't feel cheated like I did with the GameCube.

I love Brawl too, with the Wavebird. And I wish Galaxy had a Wavebird control scheme.

What has people angry/confused is that Nintendo showed up at the a gaming conference and then admittedly aimed their presentation at the non-core gamers. So the people who were watching streaming footage or live blogs were not their audience. Instead it was aimed at people like my dad. But my dad has never heard of E3. Their target audience for that presentation wasn't watching, nor did they know they should.

So hopefully you can understand that when Nintendo admits to not aiming for the core gamer at a gaming convention and shows off what is appearing to be first-party shovelware (even hands-on for Wii Music has been met with little enthusiasm) that their core fanbase feels a bit ignored.

No one is being forced to buy these games, but the future appears to be very slim in the way of non-poorly ported games for the core gamer.

It isn't that Nintendo is doing anything wrong as a company, both financially or to their fans. They are making money by the oodle load and all their main IPs have come out at this point. But they now have to cater to two markets and it is creating a bit of an identity crisis. You don't show off your casual games at the core gamers expo and try to pass it off as the biggest thing since Pong. No, this audience was looking for Kid Icarus, or something along those lines.

 

[Tornado]

 

[Solid Fro]

That comic is much better. It represents what Nintendo is doing to it's "core" consumers.

 

[Tornado]

I find it kind of funny that now that they know there is something that will enhance the Wiimote, tons of people are finding that without Motion+ it is inaccurate with everything they use it with. Must be a human nature thing.

 

[FoolKiller]

I find it kind of funny that now that they know there is something that will enhance the Wiimote, tons of people are finding that without Motion+ it is inaccurate with everything they use it with. Must be a human nature thing.

Huh? You mean, I am the only one that noticed before now that my golf games didn't mimic my actual putting, rather my power is determined by how long (time) I hold my back swing before coming forward? It's in the instructions for Tiger Woods 07.

Lots of people noticed, which is why it quickly became termed waggle. You never actually made the motion that you see on screen. Sure, good devs were able to make it seem similar, but whether I am standing in a tennis stance and swinging my arms in a full swing or lying on the sofa twitching my wrist it all looks the same on screen.

It isn't that I just now noticed, it is that I assumed it was due to lazy developers.

 

[Wolfe]

I find it hard to believe that any experienced gamer couldn't notice until now that the basic Wiimote would be useless for a 1-to-1 swordfighting game. At the same time, I don't know why everyone is dismissing it now, because the Wiimote has always been capable of more than basic waggle. The dodging, blocking, leaning, and moving in Wii Sports Boxing proved early on how flexible the motion controls could be. They just weren't good enough to track the complete orientation and movement of the controller through 3-dimensional space.

FoolKiller is right, much of the blame falls on lazy developers who have rarely ventured beyond the reliable, responsive "shake" of the Wiimote.

 

[Tornado]

It isn't that I just now noticed, it is that I assumed it was due to lazy developers.

I'm talking about the people who are now going off and acting as if the Wiimote worked to the level of the Activator now that there is something that will make it more accurate. Its a behavior that I find quite hilarious, especially when compared to the press and fan reaction that occurred when the Guncon 3 came out (which by itself would have made the whole Motion+ concept a good laugh even if some people were not overreacting as much as they have been).

 

[Robin]

This is much like developers being lazy in implementing good use of the PS3's SIXAXIS... Super Rub a Dub shows that it can be used very effectively but I have yet to see a major game use it successfully.

Robin

 

[Solid Fro]

FoolKiller is right, much of the blame falls on lazy developers who have rarely ventured beyond the reliable, responsive "shake" of the Wiimote.

Mark Nintendo as #1 under lazy developers.

I can play Wii Sports with little effort sitting on my ass.

However, I don't think it's just lazy developers. Nintendo has promoted the notion of controlling the game the same way you would in real life. How many times has Mr. Fils-Aime pretended that he was really playing tennis, fighting a boxer, or skiing down a mountain? Once developers found out that you can't really do that **** with a Wii remote is when these terrible games come out... it's just not possible with current controls. You cannot call them lazy at that point.

 

[FoolKiller]

This is the point that I was trying to make: that when I would get games that had something in the general vicinity of a the real-life motion (golf swing) but it wasn't perfect (putting) I assumed it was the developers getting lazy and not putting forth the effort to tweak it, however it is now obvious to me that it wasn't a developer laziness issue rather a motion control issue.

With the Sixaxis it was never designed to be the primary control, but a few developers have gone that route and it has worked well (Super rub-a-dub, High Velocity Bowling) and others have screwed it up (Lair). Most developers use it well as a secondary added input (shaking chimera off in Resistance, balancing in Uncharted) but the third party devs have done very little and there was obvious laziness, to the degree that they knew it needed an option to be turned off.

I assumed the Wii controls were facing the same problem despite it being the primary input. But seeing the Motion Plus talk leads me to think that it may be technical limitations that the consumer was unaware of before now.


All that isn't to say there aren't true signs of developer laziness. One run at Carnival Games or My Sims will tell you it is there. But the well-done games with control issues appear to be related more to technical limitations.

My only question: How is it that developers have constantly ducked the lazy control allegations and not made mention of their technical limits? Didn't want to step away from the Nintendo cash cow with a he said, she said battle?

 

[Wolfe]

Mark Nintendo as #1 under lazy developers.

I can play Wii Sports with little effort sitting on my ass.

Until they give us motion control attachments to strap around our wrists, elbows, shoulders, hips, knees, ankles, and forehead, there won't be a single game that you can't play while relaxing on the couch. Congratulations for missing the point.

However, I don't think it's just lazy developers. Nintendo has promoted the notion of controlling the game the same way you would in real life. How many times has Mr. Fils-Aime pretended that he was really playing tennis, fighting a boxer, or skiing down a mountain? Once developers found out that you can't really do that **** with a Wii remote is when these terrible games come out... it's just not possible with current controls. You cannot call them lazy at that point.

You really bought fully and completely into the pre-release marketing hype? Did you also think jumping behind the couch (like that one kid did) would matter in first-person shooters? When I saw Wii Sports Tennis being played for the first time I thought it was obvious that it used gestures rather than full-time 3D motion tracking.

Still, Wii Sports is deeper than just "shake to (blank)," as most games since have done. For example, Tennis lets you curve the ball, and Boxing lets you move, dodge, and aim (as I mentioned above). Right from the very beginning Nintendo made it clear what the Wiimote was capable of. I guess everyone was too busy flailing their arms to notice, which is fine, because they were having fun. I remember when that was the whole point of videogames.

Anyway, just as it always seems to go, Nintendo set the bar and third-party developers have fallen short of it. Yes, I would call them lazy at that point.

 

[Solid Fro]

All that isn't to say there aren't true signs of developer laziness. One run at Carnival Games or My Sims will tell you it is there.

Motion control isn't the biggest problem of these games. Absolutely dull, muted, and monotonous games.

My only question: How is it that developers have constantly ducked the lazy control allegations and not made mention of their technical limits? Didn't want to step away from the Nintendo cash cow with a he said, she said battle?

Publishers wanted Nintendo's cash cow, the milk, and the farm.

You really bought fully and completely into the pre-release marketing hype?

Apparently, 30 million people have.

 

[Azuremen]

Until they give us motion control attachments to strap around our wrists, elbows, shoulders, hips, knees, ankles, and forehead, there won't be a single game that you can't play while relaxing on the couch. Congratulations for missing the point.

He always does...

Motion control isn't the biggest problem of these games. Absolutely dull, muted, and monotonous games.

Games like that happen to appear on every console, including your precious PS3.

 

[Wolfe]

Apparently, 30 million people have.

I'd be delighted if you could provide evidence that these "lack of control" complaints have come from anywhere but the dedicated gamer crowd. If they're having fun, people won't care what the Wiimote can't do.