No more new content needed until bugs fixed

[Swagger897]

 

[Stumps_GTI]

[quote="CJSpencer77, post: 9208710, member: 187374"

Am I really the only one that is far more interested in fixing what is broken so we have a solid base for future updates rather than piling more pressure on a broken foundation ???

[/quote]
That is the BEST call I have seen so far, bravo.

And to help out, maybe put it in context that maybe Kaz, the "real race driver" can understand.....

If you have a race car, it's covered a few k's......you don't just throw a new skin (body) on it, and expect it to work like a completely new machine.
The chassis will have weakened, along with the drive system.
These two major items need to be addressed, before you go adding shiny new stuff.
Maybe some of these headaches could be traced back beyond GT5, though I am only guessing at that.
Just my opinion......

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

So basically some of you guys think that PD should just sit on new content and not release it until they have located and corrected any issues that are present currently even though that new content is ready to go. That is a very illogical standpoint. It is not like there is just one person working on this you know.

 

[CeeJay]

I'm very conflicted.. I really want them to deliver the promised content at some point (COURSE MAKER.. ugh..) but these bugs are really pretty annoying. I'm sure PD can work on both adding content and fixing bugs at the same time. PD really shouldn't have promised any feature that wasn't going to launch with the game. I mean, even on the back of the box it talks about creating online events with web based devices, something that was not even on the disc! This feels a bit dirty to me. I'm still enjoying GT6 for what it is but I can't say I'm entirely pleased with PD after this.

 

[giorgos21]

"Put it in small theatre mode, get some £5000 speakers, a handmade by 40 Virgins Amplifier and connect them with super secret NASA space wire and they sound relatively close to a 1.1litre Daewoo Matiz, so stop moaning and whining you troll - Kaz for President of the world, all hail King Kaz"

Almost there.Don't forget to mix the bat wings and the frog ear .

 

[UrbanLlama]

I would like them to release the content they promised and fix the bugs. And there is quite a few bugs I would like them to fix. Rolling starts online and my online replays crashing the system for starters. The bugs in this series are nothing new for me though, I remember having my whole garage deleted in GT2.. That was fun.

 

[Zlork]

Yeah no. I want PD to fix bugs AND add content. What you have listed never happened to me at all. I want my Course Maker!

Of course ! PoDi can fix bugs AND add content.

I tested and I apologize:

* Every time someone Makes a pit stop you get a lag spike Makes All which long impossble online races, this is compunded if multiple cars pit at once, They Will All which in an enduro
* Ounce pit stop has-beens made the tire wear and grip level can be wrong
* 0 ABS Brakes-have-been broken since patch 1.02, most is race cars are unusable with ABS 0
* Bathurst is buggy as hell
* And just to top it off the patch 1.03 That adds a new car INSTEAD of fixing the real issues is Causing crashes

Among problems mentioned, I'm just touched by:

* Ounce pit stop has-beens made the tire wear and grip level can be wrong

It's quite annoying, I hope Podi will fix this issue but in the meantime, no matter if everyone is affected because there will be no problem of fairness.

 

[bs13]

So basically some of you guys think that PD should just sit on new content and not release it until they have located and corrected any issues that are present currently even though that new content is ready to go. That is a very illogical standpoint. It is not like there is just one person working on this you know.

So you think it's logical to add more content that probably will contain more bugs on top of the bugs we already have? Wouldn't it be wise to fix the foundation before adding more code to sift through?

I'm not a programmer so I can't really answer that question. I do know that I wouldn't add a house on top of a bad foundation and everything needs to be level, plumb and square before starting to frame the home.

 

[CJSpencer77]

So basically some of you guys think that PD should just sit on new content and not release it until they have located and corrected any issues that are present currently even though that new content is ready to go. That is a very illogical standpoint. It is not like there is just one person working on this you know.

As hognhominy says below, they have commitments to manufacturers to release these manufacturers cars into the game, its a fair point and at the end of the day PD are a business first.

While I agree that the more important issues need to be resolved, PD obviously has quite a few irons in the fire. Quite frankly, there is more money in publishing advertising for Toyota and BMW on time, than they will lose from lost sales due to issues in the game play.

But there is new content and there is new content, a new car here or there, new seasonals etc. etc. are not the issue.

PD's priorities seem to be confused, in the last patch they add an interior and a car, which as i just said 'hog' made a fair point about, but the bug fixes they addressed? the PP slider now shows you a live indication as you move it, and the custom wheel size bug has been fixed??, these were not the important problems to be fixed and they should have taken second bill to the more important bugs.

Any bugs that can be worked around to get you on track are not the priority.

Bugs that stop you actually "racing" are the important bit for example:-
Your racing in a long race, 2 guys pit, the rest of the guys on track get a spike and 2 go off track, the guy in the pit then comes out and his grip level has changed incorrectly, your racing at Bathurst so all of a sudden you lose all the sound then one of the other guys game freezes.

And to boot this new 99mg patch that doesnt address the important parts or change a whole lot throws a whole new load of bugs out !, and people are still screaming for huge updates?, Huge patchs/updates at this point will just compound the problems that are still present.

Trust me i want the Coursemaker/GPS/community features etc. etc. just like the rest of you, but if they dropped them in the game right now id bet my house the resulting mess would be epic.

 

[avens]

1.- Releasing new paid content is not related to fixing bugs, as they are different teams and workers, therefore that does not stop releasing new patches or more content. In other words, a new car does not mean a bug wasn't solved.

2.- Every single game ever has bugs no matter how constantly it is patched. The focus is to fix the game breaking bugs, those that make certain features unusable and those that are experienced and noticed by most players (not the 0.1%), while the rest will go on if they are tedious, difficult or even impossible to fix. So with all that said, most of what's listed doesn't fall in those categories therefore shouldn't be a priority for coders over the main GT6 bugs (i.e. endurance placing) and GT7's backend.

3.- Furthermore, lets put ourselves in an hypothetical situation where some features were to be delayed because of fixing bugs. I think it'd be very much unpopular that PD focuses on fixing the RA menu and that causes the course creator to be out in 2015.
The argument here is that players prefer some aspects over others -priorities-, and so do companies. Fixing bugs is not what draws players and money in, unless extreme cases in which GT6 clearly is not (GT6 is not a buggy game). Content does.


(can I do an offtopic? can't find the mod miniville for rfactor1, Central is down as usual, can't find a working link. Upload it and you'll earn eternal glory)

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

So you think it's logical to add more content that probably will contain more bugs on top of the bugs we already have? Wouldn't it be wise to fix the foundation before adding more code to sift through?

But the foundation isn't broken here, it is more like a broken window, a squeaky door hinge, a dripping faucet and such. Does that mean that we should not bring in a sofa or hang a picture on the wall while they are working on the problems?

I'm not a programmer so I can't really answer that question. I do know that I wouldn't add a house on top of a bad foundation and everything needs to be level, plumb and square before starting to frame the home.

I am a programmer and clearly there are some issues in a few places but they have people working on those and other people working on content. There is no reason they can't do both.

Any bugs that can be worked around to get you on track are not the priority.

True they should not be but there is also a matter of who is responsible for what areas of the game and what can be done in the time available. If something can be fixed without much trouble then even if it is minor there is no reason to not do so unless that person is needed to work on something more important.

Bugs that stop you actually "racing" are the important bit for example:-
Your racing in a long race, 2 guys pit, the rest of the guys on track get a spike and 2 go off track, the guy in the pit then comes out and his grip level has changed incorrectly, your racing at Bathurst so all of a sudden you lose all the sound then one of the other guys game freezes.

While this is definitely a problem it does not stop you from racing. You do have the option to disable the tire wear and fuel usage and in that case the pit stop issue is a non factor just like the wheel bug they fixed you could avoid it by leaving the stock wheels on your car.

And to boot this new 99mg patch that doesnt address the important parts or change a whole lot throws a whole new load of bugs out !, and people are still screaming for huge updates?, Huge patchs/updates at this point will just compound the problems that are still present.

Trust me i want the Coursemaker/GPS/community features etc. etc. just like the rest of you, but if they dropped them in the game right now id bet my house the resulting mess would be epic.

It could cause additional problems, it could correct some problems, we do not know. To me the community features are very important and I would like to see them ASAP.

 

[bs13]

But the foundation isn't broken here, it is more like a broken window, a squeaky door hinge, a dripping faucet and such. Does that mean that we should not bring in a sofa or hang a picture on the wall while they are working on the problems?

I am a programmer and clearly there are some issues in a few places but they have people working on those and other people working on content. There is no reason they can't do both.

IMO I wouldn't move in furniture and pics because a broken window and leaky faucet means theft and water damage is possible. That stuff also gets in the way of carpenters trying to do the work which is most important.

Trust me, I want features added to the game because my friends just aren't playing GT6. Heck, I haven't been playing it because features important to me are missing. I don't want my "wants" to get in the way of them fixing the game properly.

IMHO, PD's and Sony's number one priority should be finding out what is causing the PS3 crashes when updates are released. AFAIK sudden crashes can lead to data corruption and that should be a major concern. Not only that it is frustrating their user base which is never a good idea.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

The crashes are a problem, something in their new update engine apparently. So far I have not had any issues with any of the updates but I see many others have. A couple of my friends have experienced at least one issue downloading updates as well.

Still there are lots of people working on GT and that means they can do more than one thing at the same time.

Using your house analogy if you had a crew of 12 workmen would you have them all working to fix that drippy faucet before you allowed them to do anything else or would you assign one or two guys to that and the other 10 to other projects be it repairs or additions? Imagine if there were 50 or 100 people working there. They can't all work on the same thing and there is much other stuff to do so the smart thing to do is spread it out across the work force and do as much as possible without getting in each others way and try to avoid causing new problems.

Even then new problems will appear from time to time and those too will have to be addressed and they generally are very quickly. From what I have read this morning it looks like they have already addressed the timed race bug that was introduced by the 1.03 patch

 

[Sander 001]

But the foundation isn't broken here, it is more like a broken window, a squeaky door hinge, a dripping faucet and such.

The foundation may not be broken, but it does contain an array of flaws.

 

[grog]

Try the f40 without abs, standard brakes at 0 and it locks up at 50% pedal travel.

As the OP said it was fine before 1.02. Sure some cars are drive-able but pre-1.02 you could modulate the pedal far better and overall brake feel was significantly better.

So abs 0 still needs to be fixed.

The glitch with ABS 0 is due to the brake bias not working in some modes, it works in career mode races but not online or free run. When you race online or in free run the brake bias values return to 5/5 which is why you can turn it down to 0/0 and still lock the brakes, the game still reads a value of 5/5.
This problem is only apparent on cars that lock up their brakes with the stock setting, such as the Huayra or F40.


Oh and keep the content coming! Its the only way some glitches are found and ironed out!

 

[SavageEvil]

You guys are ridiculous, how does holding back content make any sense? You know these games have a time line and shelf life and PD won't be around tooling on this thing forever. Take what you can get and enjoy it because if you think everything is going to be perfect in your eyes, you're nuts.

PD will release what they can when they can, bugs crop up, what you think life doesn't have issues that you didn't count on? Can you afford to stop everything and have everyone wait on you to right your wrongs? Yea ok if you think this is how things go, you must be a child or something. World does not revolve around you and it will not stop because of a mishap, you roll with the punches and keep fixing things you deem most important and keep moving stopping isn't an option as you'll be passed by.

How did you find out about the bugs and glitches? Wasn't it because the game is in your PS3 and you played it? So how will PD find out about any other issues...by using a magical mirror that can see into the future that a bug will develop and they will withhold that piece of content. Wouldn't it make more sense to release the content that works and if bugs creep up then you can address them, but thing is they have to recreate the exact dilemma that spawned the bug. Yea not as easy as you would think, code tracing is a pain in the arse because it's not always one thing that's causing the issue but what could potentially be a few strings here that tie a code over here and another one 15 pages down. They have bug hunters but their biggest help is the community and when the community decides that they do not want to help well, good luck finding bugs and getting them reported. Since holding back content holds back the finding of any bugs that did not manifest themselves under PD controlled bug testing.

Funny thing is the amount of different issues arising that do not happen to everyone and bugs that many didn't even know existed proves that it's the community that has brought this to light. You think without the community PD would have found these bugs by some stroke of luck? Look take the game as is, it's not broken as I can play it well, sure there are issues but if we pretend to act like adults and put them in the appropriate places which from my experience works as PD has fixed the custom wheel problem they will eventually get to them. They are prioritizing which bugs can be fixed easily and how devastating they are to gameplay, you need wheels to drive so yea that was really priority. Darkened interiors not so much as you have other views you can use while they fix other more pressing issues. Take it easy and relax and enjoy what you can. That whole update freezing this is weird as hell, anyone compiled a list of hard copy to digital version freezes and PS3 stats...like seriously this is why we have a community to come together and get things sorted since the company is only so big and cannot find everything wrong...that's where we come in. Now you slaves back to work playing the game and encountering weird things that need addressing . Lol just a joke guys, got to laugh man life is too damn short to be this angry over a digital representation of zero's and one's. Hey aren't we getting a community update in GT6 soon, that might be an overhaul to the online mode as I have heard it's quite a mess for some and works fine for others.

 

[MatskiMonk]

the PP slider now shows you a live indication as you move it, and the custom wheel size bug has been fixed??, these were not the important problems to be fixed and they should have taken second bill to the more important bugs.

Any bugs that can be worked around to get you on track are not the priority.

Bugs that stop you actually "racing" are the important bit for example:-
Your racing in a long race, 2 guys pit, the rest of the guys on track get a spike and 2 go off track, the guy in the pit then comes out and his grip level has changed incorrectly, your racing at Bathurst so all of a sudden you lose all the sound then one of the other guys game freezes.

So it's not possible to have an online race that doesn't include pit stops?

Some things are easier to sort out than others. It will be Severity vs. Occurrences dealio as with any quality system. Severity may be low (maybe 2 on a scale of 1-10), but it will affect every player who has to match a PP limit in the game, I'm prepared to bet that is 90%+ of people that play. Your issue online maybe be a 8/10, but the number of people is affects is probably much lower. Add in to that the resources required to fix the problem (might be 12 man hours in one department, or 50 across two.... etc.. who knows? Either way it will impact other projects/teams/departments) .... then you make a decision as to what the priority is.

However, I agree that this problem (problems in your Bathurst example) is a bonafide bug, whereas the lack of live PP is just a frustrating oversight (of which GT6 has many).

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

The glitch with ABS 0 is due to the brake bias not working in some modes, it works in career mode races but not online or free run. When you race online or in free run the brake bias values return to 5/5 which is why you can turn it down to 0/0 and still lock the brakes, the game still reads a value of 5/5.
This problem is only apparent on cars that lock up their brakes with the stock setting, such as the Huayra or F40.


Oh and keep the content coming! Its the only way some glitches are found and ironed out!

Interesting I had did some testing in free run and came to the conclusion that the brake bias did not do anything. a setting of 0/0 had the same effect as 10/10 as 0/10 as 10/0 and as 5/5 Yet it did seem when I was in career mode and set the bias at 6/4 it helped on the cars that wanted to kick out the tail under braking.

I will have to do more testing now

 

[peccio]

PD employees are foxes and turtles, I wonder when they will learn...

 

[MrWednesday]

So you think it's logical to add more content that probably will contain more bugs on top of the bugs we already have? Wouldn't it be wise to fix the foundation before adding more code to sift through?

It depends on what you mean by "content".

For instance, I don't think that adding new vehicles or tracks a) takes significant developer resources away from bugfixing, nor b) is likely to contain more bugs in a way that makes it a bad idea to release.

I'm more inclined to agree when it comes to the question of adding new features, where there may be overlap in developer resources with bugfixing.

 

[grannyshifter]

The glitch with ABS 0 is due to the brake bias not working in some modes.

OK thanks for the heads up. However I swear it was still better before 1.02. I remember driving my first civic without abs, brake balance 6/3 I think and it was much better than a lower setting is now

What's the point of a 1-10 sliding scale if you are limited to the low end for abs0

 

[grog]

Yes this was a bug that came after they added the RA adjust menu/feature in the 1st or 2nd update. Before that it was working fine.

To your point on the 1-10 scale, on cars that have terrible brakes I've used 8/9 and even jumped up to race brakes for some cars. If the brakes are good you'll turn them down typically, If they're bad they get turned up.

 

[lc52_ch]

Just 1 thing, cause it would be too long and useless make a list of all the bugs and stuffs are taking me away the pleasure of play GT

Alpha & Beta versions...

10 / 20 years ago PD would have been simply broken or nearly to, after such a bad business and image management...
Basically we are the problem, we still play this 🤬...ill give them another chance, but i think my future is going to be on PC / steam or whatever is not PD & $ONY

EDIT: srry CJ, im getting frustrated, so i ve loose the point...of course i do agree with u, they should focus on create a solid and stable base to improve in future...btw PD, just to be sure not to do something right for once, with this new patch 1.03 actually create a bunch of brand new bugs, without even solving 10 % of those already existing.

 

[Swagger897]

My views are mixed on this after reading so many other's replies. I understand how the release of something is final (or not depending on if PD wants to...) and will come out when date reached (Jan. 1st ring a bell?) but I have a bit of a shudder thinking of GT5 where it seemed that every frickin updated/content released we got a new bug that was supposed to solve an old bug. It was really two steps back and one forward after spec 2 I think and that's where the game got stale for me. Im still excited about GT6 for now until they fix a few aspects of online, but for the most part, I do agree more now that there is no weak foundation in the game that needs to be fixed. What we are always bitching about, the ai, sound, whatever, needs to be OVERHAULED.

I honestly hope in GT7, on a NEXT GEN console that we see all standards gone (theyre still there folks, standard or regular) a new sound engine, and somewhat of a classification system for the races of nature. GT500 races have GT500's and nothing else. Races at Le Mans have strictly two or more of each car classification THAT HAS RACED THERE ALREADY, and things like that we all talk about which would just put the biggest smiles on our faces...

But for now, the biggest deal I have always hated about GT5 and 6, is the shoddy work done on the interiors. Has anyone ever looked back inside of the C2 stingray? what do ya find? a split window almost resmbling what the standard version would've looked like? Pretty much... There are so many cars where it is unrealistically dark. It isnt an exposure, gamma, TV, or eye problem, it is the lighting model itself. The game truly acts as if all camera positions are taken from the standpoint of a camera (albeit that's what the majority are except the cockpit) when the cockpit should look like what it does with human eyes.

I have a photoshop app on my ipad that can fix most of the issues PD has with interior issues, and other problems that deal with darkness. I am just astounded that in reality if I look down to look at my feet, I can see them, however, In a "simulator" i cant...? I just dont get it..

 

[lc52_ch]

Interesting I had did some testing in free run and came to the conclusion that the brake bias did not do anything. a setting of 0/0 had the same effect as 10/10 as 0/10 as 10/0 and as 5/5 Yet it did seem when I was in career mode and set the bias at 6/4 it helped on the cars that wanted to kick out the tail under braking.

I will have to do more testing now

It's a BUG!!! (one of the countless)

before 1.02 was just a great feeling improvement from GT5...(altought free practice mode in offline mode was already affected)

EDIT: & was no problem to feel bias change

 

[LaBounti]

None of those issues matter to me so bring on the content......

 

[HoneyBadger]

how great the brakes felt at 1.01 compared to the change that was made with patch 1.02, but a whole load of the race cars are awfull with ABS 0 now

It would seem that PDs hand crafted physics engine is like a house of cards

 

[ZHPbimmer]

I laugh at posts like this. Please go ahead and make a simulation racing game with over a thousand cars and tons of tracks all while making it completely bug free. I am in no way a programmer but I can only imagine what it takes to make a game this complex. You are acting as if the game is unplayable. The game is 95% perfect in terms of playability.

So no PD, bring on updates with new features. Fix the bugs too, but don't neglect new features. I seriously can't understand how free updates with new cars (that are free in game as well) is so bad.

 

[Swagger897]

I laugh at posts like this. Please go ahead and make a simulation racing game with over a thousand cars and tons of tracks all while making it completely bug free. I am in no way a programmer but I can only imagine what it takes to make a game this complex. You are acting as if the game is unplayable. The game is 95% perfect in terms of playability.

So no PD, bring on updates with new features. Fix the bugs too, but don't neglect new features. I seriously can't understand how free updates with new cars (that are free in game as well) is so bad.

You do realize half the game has been ported from the past two iterations.... Right...?

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

As explained in another thread I'm just shattered by top speeds and gear ratios being completely unrealistic, this game just can't be considered a real driving simulator, but is marketed as such.

The best thing PD could do for GT7 is to give us an accurate simulator with improved sounds, all premium cars, and no bugs, and it wouldn't matter then if they had no more improvements to graphics or no new content. The game would be fixed at last.