Right, I had a quick search on the forum in here but turned up no results with regards to this particular topic being covered. So, apologies in advance if I have in fact missed a thread/section.
This is a document I wrote-up a while back in response to GT5. It's basically a constructive critique of the game and some ideas for GT6. I realise that in one or two places, I may not have substantiated my claims, but this is literally a draft that I had written-up and I do not have the enthusiasm to delve deeper because I believe that, largely, my points are communicated in principle well enough.
Anyway, grab a brew, have a read of this monster post and please feel free to drop your own thoughts and points in response;
"What would make GT6 the best game it could be?
I've been thinking about this for a while now and certain themes are appearing to me that make me wonder how Gran Turismo 6 could learn from the mistakes of its predecessor. But this is also constructive criticism for GT5 as well. Whilst some of my suggestions are possible for GT5, the vast array of my opinions go deep into the heart of what Gran Turismo is and should be (at least in my view) and thus are really only possible for the next game in the franchise. So, here we go!
1. Cut back to what can be achieved, starting with the most important features, and work with that. As much as I like some of the standard cars in GT5, they are a constant reminder as to how PD took on too much. Let's go back to the days of GT1 and GT3 as an example of how PD previouly got this issue right. In GT2, it was able to expand into rallying and have 500 cars because there were the resources. In GT3, PD sensibly took a bit of a step back in the car count to bring out a game that is arguably the best in the series. There was plenty of the old stuff (such as the glorious return of SS11) and enough of the new (coupled with the all-powerful PS2's graphics and the revamped physics engine) to keep the folks happy. But I digress, GT5 did not make that call and I believe it suffers for it in many ways. Although this is just my opinion, I say give us 300 premiums if that's all that can reasonably be done. But, go further with those cars and allow better customisations; at this point 300+ cars will become plenty. One area that could really do with a bit of modernising is the tuning section. Keep the foundations of the older tuning model to keep it accessible, but bring in engine swaps, tuning brands, custom liveries, ride-height settings with context (how high is -12, again?). Allow us to homologate our cars more easily to our favourite championships (including official liveries, if possible, perhaps through RM?), or buy our own prototypes! That is the future of Gran Turismo as I always hoped it would be!
So, let's cut back the line-ups and keep it fresh with new models (as they come out, both racing and road-going) and by focussing on what GT stands for; it's a type of racing. If there isn't room for all of this extra stuff to be done properly, dump it! Rallying is great, but I don't know many people who buy GT5 exclusively or even mainly for the rallying. Damage, course-creation, the new B-Spec model, head-tracking, data-logging, on-track numbers (as far as sixteen, anyway): taking on all of these extras is great, but they shouldn't be added if they cause over-extension. Some of these things could probably have been achieved properly, but because all of these (and more) were attempted at the same time; due to either technical or resource limitations, they (and more) ALL fell short of expectations.
2. Restore the "Gran Turismo experience"! A-spec is in itself not a bad thing: in GT4. In GT5, is was the cause of much bemusement and frustration. After all of the work that people put into levelling up, they would get to level 40 and... well, that's pretty much it. It doesn't mean or do anything apart from bog down progression through the game. This kind of system works in games like Call of Duty because that's what they are about. Gran Turismo is not and should not be about level grinding. The original Gran Turismo allowed you to go as far as your skills took you (with the exception of the GT World Cup: more on that later). If you passed your IA licence, you weren't then blocked from taking part in endurance races against Castrol Supras in your MX-5, because of some random level-mechanic. It's old: every other racing game does that, and Gran Turismo was separate from the crowd (and so addictive) largely because of the freedom you had to go wild. We need that experience back again! If something needs to be done about the licences being tedious for some/many, then maybe allowing us to carry them ALL forward (or taking a brief refresher) in future is the way to go...? Money-caps are gay, too... It's just another fix that causes more frustration than the problems it solves.
3. If cross-cutting the single player campaign is an issue for PD, then things need to be re-balanced a bit. One way to achieve this is to stop giving-out cars for EVERYTHING! Who, after completing their first ever racing licence test, was ever presented with a brand-new car? At some point, GT switched its focus from being a racing game, and started sharing that with being a car collecting game. The car collecting should come about because we need an excuse to keep playing, not because there's a trophy for getting to 1,000! That's nuts (although it should be said that I'm not necessarily against trophies of such a nature)! Give us the good grind back in another way. I really enjoyed the days when I had to race my cheapo bad-boy '89 Supra from the Sunday Cup all the way to the US Vs Japan Cup. I'd use the prize money to buy more parts or, when I eventually had enough dosh, a race-modification or brand new '96 GTO Twin Turbo! Yeah sure, as we hit the heights of the Gran Turismo World, maybe that's the time to start giving out free cars a bit more frequently. But, as the years have rolled-by, I can't help but feel that we've been moving ever-so-slightly away from one major reason that GT was so great, and GT5 is further from this ideal than any previous GT was. I still don't understand why we can't sell most of our cars, either...!
4. More events please, with more detailed performance restrictions! In GT5, there was simply not enough to do (with regards to A-Spec racing: although this has been alleviated somewhat with the online events). I believe that GT3 was the closest to this ideal (although that's not a statement I make based on pure event-counts, but more on balance), and that it had a decent variety of single-make races mixed with some more open events. If you can make the cars more customisable, then it's easier for us to get more cars closer to pre-defined performance limits. The PP system is the best we've got for now, but if PD can dare to go deeper (in customisation terms) with a smaller number of cars, we can find more ways to meet the specifications of the events, which I think a lot of people really enjoy.
5. Adjustable AI! It is always disappointing in GT5, then, that we proceed to blow-away the AI competition by half a lap in a two-lap race having picked and tuned our cars to perfection! There MUST be some way that you can program the cars to go faster around the track if the player desires it (or even base it on the level of the event or the licence of the driver - as in IA events/drivers are faster than B licence ones).
6. Public event online races. Although a bit cumbersome, the fixed events section of GT5: Prologue's online game should have been retained (obviously in addition to what we've got now). All too often, online racing in GT5 is hit-and-miss (and could use more customisation features, too. Make it layered so that it doesn't overwhelm people). It suffers from the general lack of direction. Sure, there's often good racing to be found. But, it's all rather a bit daunting and tiresome for many. Prologue's system was much more accessible, user-friendly and fun: If it was either-or, I'd take what GT5 has any day. But GT6, I feel, could use such features.
7. Breathe life back into the tracks and the GT experience. Let's take Special Stage Route 5 as an example of what I mean in this instance. If you drive around the circuit, one question comes to my mind; where is the life in this track? Tokyo R246 and a number of others are the same. Both of these tracks were previously favourites of mine but have become much less so because they feel lifeless. There are no people: no exterior goings-on! In GT3, people were lining the streets of Tokyo's city centre as my '01 Castrol Tom's Supra roared past. In GT5, there are a few people on the main straight and that's it! SSR5 is, as far as i can tell, completely barren! It's like a city-wide evacuation had been announced, and no one had told the drivers. Maybe in the Sunday Cup that's fair enough. But, if I've earned the right to tear my '99 Toyota GT-ONE down Special Stage's main straight against other prototype racers, I want that step-up to be realised in the way that the environments react to you. More people who turn-up to watch as you get further through the game: harder competition: air-horns (and it's naff, but maybe even confetti on the home straight of the 'Gran Turismo World Championship' - a tournament which was criminally under-valued in GT5), photograph flashes, reactions to incidents; these are all things that can help bring the experience to life a bit more. Maybe if I had a British account and was winning an international event in London (or an American one at Laguna Seca), the crowd would be a bit more responsive. Add a bit of drama and emotion to the game. That feeling of being in a world that is "alive" is missing from the tracks and from the progression of the game itself.
8. Restore the Gran Turismo World Championship's glory! In every game prior to GT5 (except GT3, although that three-tiered system was pretty good), The GT World Cup was the pinnacle of the GT racing tree. In GT5, it was about somewhere in the middle. To call that a let-down would be about right! It's the aim of the game, folks! Let's give the Gran Turismo World Championship the pedestal it deserves!
9. Allow the re-integration of A and B-Spec. Let's face it, less than 5% of all GT5 players have finished all of the events (according to Playfire), that's probably down to a number of issues (such as the tedium of level grinding), but also because at some point you are expected to sit down and complete the entire 24 of Le Mans as an individual. Now, we've finally got race pausing, which is great. But, if I were to try and complete the race solo I would need to, for six nights in a row, play the game for three hours. Then, I'd need to do it again on the Nurburgring. 24 hour races are AWESOME! Being forced to do them solo (as many people are) IS NOT. Just let me put B-Spec Bob in the seat, even if it's only for the enduros!
10. Customisable music and features are great, but also hit-and-miss. When I'm in the menus, I actually find myself taking the scenic routes to the tuning shop because I know that the cool, guitar-filled rock tune I'm currently listening to is about to be replaced by an irreplaceable Gran Turismo, um, jingle. We're going in the right direction with allowing music tailoring, but please do it properly! There's a reason that I've disabled all of the jazz tunes on my GT5 profile! I hate having to listen to those jingles everytime I go to do a weight-reduction on my car or change the oil, or enter a race lobby! Also, how about a full-feature options tab on the in-race menu (or at least the pre-race menu) instead of forcing us to go all the way back home? We ain't little piggies! Also, the option to not turn-off the skid recovery force in the licence tests is baffling...!
11. Qualifying and practice: I'd like them back, please! If you don't want to do them, then maybe have it as a disabled feature in the options, but if I want to challenge myself in a race, I have to stop and wait for everyone to pass (as I'm often mid-grid). How much of a buzzkill is that?! Just let me qualify (or not post a time)/practice so that I don't have to spend ages restarting races or going completely out of the race menu and into the practice hall!
12. Keep the updates coming! Features, patches, everything. I really, really love that PD has given out so much stuff since launch. It's really restored my faith in the GT brand because after a few weeks of GT5 coming out, I was a bit worried! Keep it up! But, you can use it to your (and our) advantage further. Start be adding new tracks or race/road cars as new releases and seasons of racing calenders begin. Allow us to stay up-to-date. GT can be criticised for relying too heavily on older cars featured in previous titles (particularly where racing cars are concerned). Keeping those cars is fine, but not enough (read: very few) of the latest and greatest get to us! The Peugeot 908's and R10's are old news now! New seasons have many new teams, but only usually a few new models (if any) are brought in. Simply allowing us to buy the M3 and race-modifying it into which ever team's livery we choose (or our own), for example, would be an easier way to keep on top of everything without showrooms getting out of control.
So, I guess the overall message is: remember your roots, PD! I for one would love to see you focus on a narrower set of core objectives, but do them really well! There is no need to keep expanding if it's going to over-dilute the experience. Gran Turismo used to be and should be known not for just its quantity, but for its quality, depth and freedom; it should be setting standards, not having them!
But for now, I will continue to enjoy 'Gran Turismo 5' and I eagerly await the next one!"
Cheers all.
This is a document I wrote-up a while back in response to GT5. It's basically a constructive critique of the game and some ideas for GT6. I realise that in one or two places, I may not have substantiated my claims, but this is literally a draft that I had written-up and I do not have the enthusiasm to delve deeper because I believe that, largely, my points are communicated in principle well enough.
Anyway, grab a brew, have a read of this monster post and please feel free to drop your own thoughts and points in response;
"What would make GT6 the best game it could be?
I've been thinking about this for a while now and certain themes are appearing to me that make me wonder how Gran Turismo 6 could learn from the mistakes of its predecessor. But this is also constructive criticism for GT5 as well. Whilst some of my suggestions are possible for GT5, the vast array of my opinions go deep into the heart of what Gran Turismo is and should be (at least in my view) and thus are really only possible for the next game in the franchise. So, here we go!
1. Cut back to what can be achieved, starting with the most important features, and work with that. As much as I like some of the standard cars in GT5, they are a constant reminder as to how PD took on too much. Let's go back to the days of GT1 and GT3 as an example of how PD previouly got this issue right. In GT2, it was able to expand into rallying and have 500 cars because there were the resources. In GT3, PD sensibly took a bit of a step back in the car count to bring out a game that is arguably the best in the series. There was plenty of the old stuff (such as the glorious return of SS11) and enough of the new (coupled with the all-powerful PS2's graphics and the revamped physics engine) to keep the folks happy. But I digress, GT5 did not make that call and I believe it suffers for it in many ways. Although this is just my opinion, I say give us 300 premiums if that's all that can reasonably be done. But, go further with those cars and allow better customisations; at this point 300+ cars will become plenty. One area that could really do with a bit of modernising is the tuning section. Keep the foundations of the older tuning model to keep it accessible, but bring in engine swaps, tuning brands, custom liveries, ride-height settings with context (how high is -12, again?). Allow us to homologate our cars more easily to our favourite championships (including official liveries, if possible, perhaps through RM?), or buy our own prototypes! That is the future of Gran Turismo as I always hoped it would be!
So, let's cut back the line-ups and keep it fresh with new models (as they come out, both racing and road-going) and by focussing on what GT stands for; it's a type of racing. If there isn't room for all of this extra stuff to be done properly, dump it! Rallying is great, but I don't know many people who buy GT5 exclusively or even mainly for the rallying. Damage, course-creation, the new B-Spec model, head-tracking, data-logging, on-track numbers (as far as sixteen, anyway): taking on all of these extras is great, but they shouldn't be added if they cause over-extension. Some of these things could probably have been achieved properly, but because all of these (and more) were attempted at the same time; due to either technical or resource limitations, they (and more) ALL fell short of expectations.
2. Restore the "Gran Turismo experience"! A-spec is in itself not a bad thing: in GT4. In GT5, is was the cause of much bemusement and frustration. After all of the work that people put into levelling up, they would get to level 40 and... well, that's pretty much it. It doesn't mean or do anything apart from bog down progression through the game. This kind of system works in games like Call of Duty because that's what they are about. Gran Turismo is not and should not be about level grinding. The original Gran Turismo allowed you to go as far as your skills took you (with the exception of the GT World Cup: more on that later). If you passed your IA licence, you weren't then blocked from taking part in endurance races against Castrol Supras in your MX-5, because of some random level-mechanic. It's old: every other racing game does that, and Gran Turismo was separate from the crowd (and so addictive) largely because of the freedom you had to go wild. We need that experience back again! If something needs to be done about the licences being tedious for some/many, then maybe allowing us to carry them ALL forward (or taking a brief refresher) in future is the way to go...? Money-caps are gay, too... It's just another fix that causes more frustration than the problems it solves.
3. If cross-cutting the single player campaign is an issue for PD, then things need to be re-balanced a bit. One way to achieve this is to stop giving-out cars for EVERYTHING! Who, after completing their first ever racing licence test, was ever presented with a brand-new car? At some point, GT switched its focus from being a racing game, and started sharing that with being a car collecting game. The car collecting should come about because we need an excuse to keep playing, not because there's a trophy for getting to 1,000! That's nuts (although it should be said that I'm not necessarily against trophies of such a nature)! Give us the good grind back in another way. I really enjoyed the days when I had to race my cheapo bad-boy '89 Supra from the Sunday Cup all the way to the US Vs Japan Cup. I'd use the prize money to buy more parts or, when I eventually had enough dosh, a race-modification or brand new '96 GTO Twin Turbo! Yeah sure, as we hit the heights of the Gran Turismo World, maybe that's the time to start giving out free cars a bit more frequently. But, as the years have rolled-by, I can't help but feel that we've been moving ever-so-slightly away from one major reason that GT was so great, and GT5 is further from this ideal than any previous GT was. I still don't understand why we can't sell most of our cars, either...!
4. More events please, with more detailed performance restrictions! In GT5, there was simply not enough to do (with regards to A-Spec racing: although this has been alleviated somewhat with the online events). I believe that GT3 was the closest to this ideal (although that's not a statement I make based on pure event-counts, but more on balance), and that it had a decent variety of single-make races mixed with some more open events. If you can make the cars more customisable, then it's easier for us to get more cars closer to pre-defined performance limits. The PP system is the best we've got for now, but if PD can dare to go deeper (in customisation terms) with a smaller number of cars, we can find more ways to meet the specifications of the events, which I think a lot of people really enjoy.
5. Adjustable AI! It is always disappointing in GT5, then, that we proceed to blow-away the AI competition by half a lap in a two-lap race having picked and tuned our cars to perfection! There MUST be some way that you can program the cars to go faster around the track if the player desires it (or even base it on the level of the event or the licence of the driver - as in IA events/drivers are faster than B licence ones).
6. Public event online races. Although a bit cumbersome, the fixed events section of GT5: Prologue's online game should have been retained (obviously in addition to what we've got now). All too often, online racing in GT5 is hit-and-miss (and could use more customisation features, too. Make it layered so that it doesn't overwhelm people). It suffers from the general lack of direction. Sure, there's often good racing to be found. But, it's all rather a bit daunting and tiresome for many. Prologue's system was much more accessible, user-friendly and fun: If it was either-or, I'd take what GT5 has any day. But GT6, I feel, could use such features.
7. Breathe life back into the tracks and the GT experience. Let's take Special Stage Route 5 as an example of what I mean in this instance. If you drive around the circuit, one question comes to my mind; where is the life in this track? Tokyo R246 and a number of others are the same. Both of these tracks were previously favourites of mine but have become much less so because they feel lifeless. There are no people: no exterior goings-on! In GT3, people were lining the streets of Tokyo's city centre as my '01 Castrol Tom's Supra roared past. In GT5, there are a few people on the main straight and that's it! SSR5 is, as far as i can tell, completely barren! It's like a city-wide evacuation had been announced, and no one had told the drivers. Maybe in the Sunday Cup that's fair enough. But, if I've earned the right to tear my '99 Toyota GT-ONE down Special Stage's main straight against other prototype racers, I want that step-up to be realised in the way that the environments react to you. More people who turn-up to watch as you get further through the game: harder competition: air-horns (and it's naff, but maybe even confetti on the home straight of the 'Gran Turismo World Championship' - a tournament which was criminally under-valued in GT5), photograph flashes, reactions to incidents; these are all things that can help bring the experience to life a bit more. Maybe if I had a British account and was winning an international event in London (or an American one at Laguna Seca), the crowd would be a bit more responsive. Add a bit of drama and emotion to the game. That feeling of being in a world that is "alive" is missing from the tracks and from the progression of the game itself.
8. Restore the Gran Turismo World Championship's glory! In every game prior to GT5 (except GT3, although that three-tiered system was pretty good), The GT World Cup was the pinnacle of the GT racing tree. In GT5, it was about somewhere in the middle. To call that a let-down would be about right! It's the aim of the game, folks! Let's give the Gran Turismo World Championship the pedestal it deserves!
9. Allow the re-integration of A and B-Spec. Let's face it, less than 5% of all GT5 players have finished all of the events (according to Playfire), that's probably down to a number of issues (such as the tedium of level grinding), but also because at some point you are expected to sit down and complete the entire 24 of Le Mans as an individual. Now, we've finally got race pausing, which is great. But, if I were to try and complete the race solo I would need to, for six nights in a row, play the game for three hours. Then, I'd need to do it again on the Nurburgring. 24 hour races are AWESOME! Being forced to do them solo (as many people are) IS NOT. Just let me put B-Spec Bob in the seat, even if it's only for the enduros!
10. Customisable music and features are great, but also hit-and-miss. When I'm in the menus, I actually find myself taking the scenic routes to the tuning shop because I know that the cool, guitar-filled rock tune I'm currently listening to is about to be replaced by an irreplaceable Gran Turismo, um, jingle. We're going in the right direction with allowing music tailoring, but please do it properly! There's a reason that I've disabled all of the jazz tunes on my GT5 profile! I hate having to listen to those jingles everytime I go to do a weight-reduction on my car or change the oil, or enter a race lobby! Also, how about a full-feature options tab on the in-race menu (or at least the pre-race menu) instead of forcing us to go all the way back home? We ain't little piggies! Also, the option to not turn-off the skid recovery force in the licence tests is baffling...!
11. Qualifying and practice: I'd like them back, please! If you don't want to do them, then maybe have it as a disabled feature in the options, but if I want to challenge myself in a race, I have to stop and wait for everyone to pass (as I'm often mid-grid). How much of a buzzkill is that?! Just let me qualify (or not post a time)/practice so that I don't have to spend ages restarting races or going completely out of the race menu and into the practice hall!
12. Keep the updates coming! Features, patches, everything. I really, really love that PD has given out so much stuff since launch. It's really restored my faith in the GT brand because after a few weeks of GT5 coming out, I was a bit worried! Keep it up! But, you can use it to your (and our) advantage further. Start be adding new tracks or race/road cars as new releases and seasons of racing calenders begin. Allow us to stay up-to-date. GT can be criticised for relying too heavily on older cars featured in previous titles (particularly where racing cars are concerned). Keeping those cars is fine, but not enough (read: very few) of the latest and greatest get to us! The Peugeot 908's and R10's are old news now! New seasons have many new teams, but only usually a few new models (if any) are brought in. Simply allowing us to buy the M3 and race-modifying it into which ever team's livery we choose (or our own), for example, would be an easier way to keep on top of everything without showrooms getting out of control.
So, I guess the overall message is: remember your roots, PD! I for one would love to see you focus on a narrower set of core objectives, but do them really well! There is no need to keep expanding if it's going to over-dilute the experience. Gran Turismo used to be and should be known not for just its quantity, but for its quality, depth and freedom; it should be setting standards, not having them!
But for now, I will continue to enjoy 'Gran Turismo 5' and I eagerly await the next one!"
Cheers all.
Last edited:
and replaces it with better, more equal events
.
