NOW FINISHED - Before I start... thoughts on my cockpit design?

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LostBoyNZ

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New Zealand
New Zealand
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(UPDATE - NOW FINISHED, SEE HERE FOR THE FINAL PICS: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4844028#post4844028)

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I'm planning on creating a cockpit ready for GT5 later this year. Over the past few months I've grabbed various items while they've been on special, and have:

Logitech G27 (although a G25 is pictured below)
Logitech Z-5500 speakers
Second hand car seat

I also plan on getting a Buttkicker Gamer 2 which will attach just below the seat.

Since I have very limited building experience, I'd like to stick with wood for the cockpit. It'll mostly be quite thick strong wood, but the very front & back will be thin board so it can bend. Also it needs to be easily movable and thin enough to fit through doors.

Below is what I've come up with using Photoshop so far. The idea is the two parts (green & pink) can slide closer together for storage, or further apart depending on leg length. The pedals can also be moved up or down. The front side speakers fold in, as does the gear stick (although I need to look into this, as I don't think it'll fold in without hitting other parts as its designed so far). I'll also have a fold out cup holder on the side.

Of course these aren't the final colors ;)

I was wondering if anyone might have any thoughts / ideas / criticisms so far? Thanks!

designsmall2.jpg
 
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Wow! that is so high up off the ground. Are you planning to go Monster truck racing? Jk :sly:
 
lol, that's true! :D It was the only way I could think to fit the giant subwoofer from the Z-5500 and the buttkicker in. The seat ends up being about 60cm off the ground. Perhaps I'll need to add seat belts after all :P
 
So that's about the hieght of a bar stool? Maybe you can mount it right underneath the front speakers that way you can put a buttkicker under the seat and still be able to go lower. This way you might get better cornering and improve your lap times. (Sorry I couldn't help crack another joke.)
 
If it were me I'd place the sub behind the whole cockpit so it could be lower to the ground...

He ..thats actually where my sub is too.
 
I would be inclined to make the height of the pedals closer to the bottom of the seat and put them on a slight angle. And tilt the steering wheel towards the seat a little. Such as this:

picture.php

picture.php

picture.php


PS: Like my GT logo? :cool:
 
Thanks for all the replies so far :) Working on a new plan that will incorporate all of the ideas.

p.s Nice looking cockpit you have there, love the GT logo :)
 
When I've built mine, I've made sure that when I sit on the seat, my eyes would be in centre of the tv. My tv is sitting quite elevated in the room and the bottom of my seat is sitting around 50cm high from the ground.

Pictures here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128808

That is my first seat - I'm going to start my build of another one very soon, in fact I'm working on the design right now.
 
The only thing I would change is your speaker placement. The rear speakers to be more specific.

It seems a lot of people make the same mistake and put the rear speakers right up next to your head, while the other speakers have completely different spacing.

I would be more inclined to put the rear speakers on stands (or build stands off of the cockpit) so the speakers are more reasonably spaced. A correct sound field is important for the best immersion.

The front and back speakers should be placed more or less equal distance to the listening position (you, the driver).

Also, as others have said, setting the pedals at an angle will provide a much more realistic pedal feel/travel. With them on the floor it feels like you are pushing the pedals into the floor. Very unnatural.




;)
 
Have measured it up so that my eyes will be about level with the center of the TV now :) Also adjusted the pedals. Good ideas!

Regarding the speakers, Originally I'd planned to have them by the back of my head and with the Z-5500, turn the volume of the rear speakers down. I don't suppose it would create a good sound field if the rear speakers were at the bottom of the cockpit facing up? I noticed that's how a few people have them set up.

I'd prefer to avoid separate speaker stands if it's possible to still keep a good sound field, but may have to go with some of those yes.
 
LostBoyNZ
Regarding the speakers, Originally I'd planned to have them by the back of my head and with the Z-5500, turn the volume of the rear speakers down. I don't suppose it would create a good sound field if the rear speakers were at the bottom of the cockpit facing up? I noticed that's how a few people have them set up.

I'd prefer to avoid separate speaker stands if it's possible to still keep a good sound field, but may have to go with some of those yes.
Click to expand...

Turning down the rear speakers isn't going to have the effect you probably desire. Evenly spacing the speakers will. I wouldn't recommend placing speakers on the floor facing up either. The only way I can see floor speakers working, is if you have a 7.1 setup, and place the side speakers on the floor facing up (better yet, up and angled towards the driver).

Speakers work best when their sound field is directed at the listener.

Honestly, speaker stands, or building out from the back of your cockpit (for supports for DIY speaker stands) is the way to go if you really want the sound to properly immerse you in the game.



;)
 
After doing some measuring it seems if I want the driver right in the middle of all the speakers, the front of my cockpit would basically be touching the TV and the back speakers nearly on the couch. I think our living room is just too small for such a system.

I think there's no point putting speakers on-board if they won't help make it a realistic experience. I do however have a 5.1 surround sound system already in the room, so I'll stick with that instead. With the cockpit in the middle of the room, those speakers will be about equal distance away.

Thanks for your help with that. I should have taken away those speakers awhile ago, I think they were left over from an earlier design where I thought they giant subwoofer might make for some rumble (of course it doesn't, but I hadn't heard of buttkickers back then).

Instead perhaps I'll put a smaller 2.1 system and iPod dock on the cockpit for music, since I'll probably want to have the in-game music turned off so it won't interfere with the buttkicker.
 
LostBoyNZ
After doing some measuring it seems if I want the driver right in the middle of all the speakers, the front of my cockpit would basically be touching the TV and the back speakers nearly on the couch. I think our living room is just too small for such a system.

I think there's no point putting speakers on-board if they won't help make it a realistic experience. I do however have a 5.1 surround sound system already in the room, so I'll stick with that instead. With the cockpit in the middle of the room, those speakers will be about equal distance away.
Click to expand...

That's not a bad plan at all. I have used a similar setup for a few years now.

Instead perhaps I'll put a smaller 2.1 system and iPod dock on the cockpit for music, since I'll probably want to have the in-game music turned off so it won't interfere with the buttkicker.
Click to expand...

Funny you say that...

I am doing exactly that, with a dock for my Ipod Touch on the cockpit center console. For two reasons...

A. Keeping in game sound and music separate makes for less muddled audio properties.

B. Keeping them separate allows for the use of a Buttkicker (for in-game audio) while music is also playing.

Win Win, really...



;)
 
Delphic Reason
That's not a bad plan at all. I have used a similar setup for a few years now.



Funny you say that...

I am doing exactly that, with a dock for my Ipod Touch on the cockpit center console. For two reasons...

A. Keeping in game sound and music separate makes for less muddled audio properties.

B. Keeping them separate allows for the use of a Buttkicker (for in-game audio) while music is also playing.

Win Win, really...



;)
Click to expand...

It's the only way!
 
Slowly progressing with the design...

designsmall5.jpg


The speakers are now a 2.1 system under the wheel, possibly the Logitech Z-2300 set (to make things easier I just used the Z-5500 images and stretched them to the Z-2300 dimensions).

Also I've got the pedals reverse mounted (again the image just shows the idea, not what they'd actually look like). The chair is much lower down now, and the steering wheel is angled. Finally the buttkicker (un-decided so far on the gamer 2 or the wireless BKA300) will be under the seat.

I think the next step is to design the seat frame and what the sides will look like.

In terms of the steering wheel and pedal placement, I guess I should be thinking about how to make them adjustable too. Or do you think just being able to move them closer or further away from the seat is enough?
 
There you go now it looks 100% better. One more thing maybe 4 wheels instead of 8 if you frame it well enough it should hold the rigg without sagging in the middle. Oh, maybe two wheels will be fixed and the other not just like a car.
 
@DrBoyton, Nice setup you have going there, looks mighty impressive, The GT logo look magic, Its only missing 1 thing, a dedicated drink holder for enduros, a must have item for long GT sessions.

I use to run a full rig, but now i use this setup and still get to enjoy sitting on a 6grand leather lounge, after many years of racing on GT3/4, Toca2/3, FM2 dont think i could handle racing in a full rig LOL showing my age.

SANY0006-1.jpg

SANY0009.jpg


However you rig has given me some ideas to boost up the look, i really like how you done the GT logo on your rig and something i would like to incorporate into my little stand, so thanks for posting up those images you have inspired me.
 
Between work and study this project of mine hasn't received much time lately. It's still progressing slowly though. For a while I couldn't figure out what shape to make the sides. DrBoyton's use of the GT logo inspired me to use it as the sides.

Since my rig will shrink down in size for storage, when compact it shows the GT logo. I'll have to create a tiny model or something to make sure everything can slide in and expand ok.

As Radracing suggested I've reduced the number of wheels some. Since you'll stand in the middle to get in to the seat, I thought I better keep one set in the middle though.

Because of the space available in the front, I'll change from a Logitech Z-2300 to a Divoom Xforce-2 speaker set. It'll still be plenty powerful enough for iPod music I'm sure. The shielded satellites will go either side of the sub, which is that huge black box under the wheel. There'll be an iPod dock to one side of the wheel.

Somewhere they'll be a drink holder :) And I'm not sure how to attach the gear stick yet, although maybe that side will be thicker (width of the stick) than the side you climb in and out of.

Anyways, here's some pics, and does anyone have any thoughts? :) Thanks!!

 
Been a while since my last post but I'm just about ready to buy the wood and such to build it. Looking back at the first post shows how far the design has come.

It looks a bit of a mess but that's as I just use Photoshop and a whole lot of layers to design it. Without the labels there's a lot of random blobs of color.

The blue under the seat is the Buttkicker. The yellow / black up top right is a better size example of the actual seat. The pink (or strangely black around the pink in the side view) are the speakers, a Divoom 2.1 set. Nothing really special but enough grunt for background music. The green marks on the top view are the wheels underneath. Oh and not pictured but a cup fold down holder will go on the side :)

It's also very hard to tell from this image but the front and back slide together for storage or apart for use. Some pins that go through the holes in the base will hold the parts in place.

racingseatsmall.jpg
 
Seeing you guys progress with your own d.i.y's makes we want to get more done as well.
Keep at it.

From an audio/immersion point of view I would strongly recommend you ditch the Logitech sub, keep it on your audio in the room and have a different car sub under the seat. Its just a car type sub will go much deeper in its bass.

Also instead of the BKA 300, if you havnt already bought one you could save money getting 2x Mini LFE units.

Have one attached to the back of the seat, the sub below the seat and the other Buttkicker up at the front section. This will give you a better spread of LFE/Tactile immersion and the sub under the seat will give an increased frequency range of vibrations which will be better felt under the seat than at the front.

Cost Examples: Your Region May Differ
In the UK a car 12" subwoofer can be had new for £40
The Mini LFE Buttkickers are £100 each = £200
Find on ebay a decent 4ohm switchale approx 100 watt per channel amplifier.
Some old 5.1 quality amps had multichannel stereo mode giving full power to all channels and would be fine to run the sub and dual mini LFE. If not consider two stereo 4ohm switchable amps. You should get something for in around £50-£100

In the UK the BKA 300 is highly priced at £400 so you could get what Im recommending as a more complete setup for less with a bit of bargin hunting on ebay.

EDIT:
Having noticed youve ordered the BKA 300
Then perhaps for later consider a 2nd hand 4ohm home stereo amp and a car subwoofer, maybe later add a Mini LFE to the front end.
Ive found Buttkickers work best combined with a subwoofer but dont think your Logitech one besides its size/shape will cut it compared to a good 12" car sub.
 
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Hi LostBoyNZ, may have missed something but the shifter seems rather low down. The steering wheel also seems too far forward. Good overall shape though and I like the inverted pedals.
 
ericleroi
Hi LostBoyNZ, may have missed something but the shifter seems rather low down. The steering wheel also seems too far forward. Good overall shape though and I like the inverted pedals.
Click to expand...

Yeah... raise shifter abit because it is BELOW your seat, apart from that, great plan to build.
 
Thanks for your comments! The Logitech speakers (Z-5500) I included in the designs at the start I've ditched for the audio already set up in the room yep. Aside from taking up a huge amount of cockpit space the in-room audio sounds just as good.

To keep game's soundtracks from effecting the buttkicker though (if there's bass through the sub channel in the music), I'll turn the in-game music right down and use the iPod / 2.1 speaker system in the cockpit for much needed tunes. That's the boxes directly under the wheel. The box under the seat is the BKA 300 buttkicker, although I'll play with it's position to find where it works best.

What you say about car subwoofers sounds very tempting! That might well be my first upgrade to it. I'll try sticking with my BKA 300 at first but I suppose I could always re-sell it here for what I paid and order two Mini LFE Buttkickers if needed. That might be my second upgrade.

Thankfully I was able to get two BKA 300 kit's for that price (one for the cockpit, and another for the couch for use with movies), including shipping from the states to New Zealand.

For the shifter, yeah it's certainly low. The seat looks higher than it really is in that side pic, but yeah it's still low. Any higher though and it'll hit the supports in the front compartment when it's pushed together (to save on space when it's not being used).

I've tried sitting in a rough setup with those places though, and I think I'd get used to it very quickly. Steering wheel also seemed to be just right there (I actually brought it forward compared to where it used to be), but I'll double check that measurement then.

Thanks again :)
 
Looks really good, man! Extra bonus points for the GT logo on the sides!

I think you should find some way to move the shifter up. Maybe a length of wood with a shifter mount on the end could slide vertically into a bracket of some sort and you could remove it and put it on cockpit floor/seat when you collapse the unit? Or maybe rotate the pin/hole idea from the floor 90° and make a removable top with a permanent mounted base? Use hood pins for added coolness?

I'm trying to imagine leaning over to shift and not liking the idea at all. I'd look like a hunchback after 10 laps at the 'ring. :lol:

Keep us posted on your progress!
 
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I would go for the car sub I followed Latte's advice on that and they work very very well. I actually use 2 indoor subs and one JL audio 12'' car sub...

The separate speakers for music is also essential and works very well, I have something similar going on.
 
Stick with the BKA 300 now you have it ordered, its a good unit.
Just wanted to point out some things Ive found help in the audio immersion side of things.

Ive reached a point of using:

1x 7.1 Audio Amp

Cockpit to have its own 7x Sony Speakers
These:
qxj3bl.jpg


Cables to be hidden in tubing
2zi7xio.jpg



3x Speakers Below Front Triple Monitors, 2x Side/Base 2x Behind
2jdhv09.jpg


LFE from 7.1 Amp to following:

1xBKA 300
Via 1x Ultra Bass Pro Digital Sub Harmonic Processor (A)
Original BK 300 amp

2x 12" subs
Via 1x Ultra Bass Pro Digital Sub Harmonic Processor (B)
700 watt 4ohm stereo amp

2x Mini LFE
Via 5.1 amplifer @ 4ohm


Alternative effects:
Front Left & Front Right PRE OUT from Audio 7.1 amp
Into 15 Band Equaliser
4ohm secondary amplifer
2x Clarke Tactile Units at either side of seat (these seem better for this role than Buttkickers)

(This gives a different effect than the LFE coming direct from games stereo audio using the EQ to allow control to alter the sound and effect, also helps give more sensation to either side of the cockpit and to match the onscreen action for directional tactile effect)

Yet to fully decide final positioning as tests done on temporary setup so far.

Yes Ive taken this too far but its all become an experiment/hobby for an arcade type of experience.
 
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My computer died :( So that's slowed things down a bit. Having to do Uni assignments this week will too. But I'll get back into this all very soon :)

After having to buy a new computer I think I should stick to what I have for the racing seat gear, but I'll seriously look at putting in car subs as the first upgrade :) Then as he suggested too, maybe dual mini butt kickers.

I've given the buttkicker a go under the couch, so far just with Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs... love it! It certainly packs a punch!

Ah Mr Latte, I can't wait to see your finished cockpit. You say it's become an experiment/hobby for an arcade type of experience, but I think your setup will put the arcade setups to shame!

With the gearstick, that'll be the last thing to re-design then before I start cutting up the wood.

Will hopefully have a final design pic within the next week then :)
 

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