nurburbring online worry

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Dry Tarmak
I'm not quite sure what to make of this really:

I have this worry about the 'ring's online capability with 16 players. My train of though is rather simple... it requires a lot of juice. The 'ring is a big-ass track... i can understand tracks like Silverstone (still big, but not that much)... but the 'ring is huge... requires a lot of memory to load... and well... all that over a 16 players network... its pretty insane.

Anyone else's worried over this? I sure as hell want to race this one with you guys (from gtplanet.net)...
 
I bet they will solve the problems by the time they release GT5.
 
The track is client side data, so shouldn't be shared over the network. Large tracks like Nurburgring or Sarthe shouldn't have any special issues with online play.

To be honest, online play should (if anything) be better, since cars will tend to spread out more than on shorter tracks.
 
Let's first worry about the Nurburgring making it into GT5 at all.
 
Denur
Let's first worry about the Nurburgring making it into GT5 at all.
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of course it will be there, why would they bother making it perfectly in GT4 only to scrap it on the the next gen??

if they scrapped it i would be distraught, i am sure ive spent more hours on that track than any other, with only the laguna seca coming close to it....

as for online issues, im sure if there were any we would never know about them as they would fix them before release, even if this meant cutting the player cars to a lower number like 8 or 12 or maybe keeping the visual distance down or whatever.... but i think these things would not even effect network performance anyway....

by the way while im typing can i just ask does anyone else have an interest in seeing cars become weathered during races in GT5?? surely this would give a legitimate reason for having the car wash. For example, if your rear wheels come off of the track then it would be nice to see dirt splashed onto the rear and side skirts, in realistic dirt particle form, and then maybe this would wear off a little or get worse as the race went on. Maybe its not important but it would be better than the cars staying showroom perfect for the whole time. sorry for the OT.
 
Denur
Let's first worry about the Nurburgring making it into GT5 at all.
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thats not a worry mate,nurnburg will make it 100%...
and i dont think it will be a big problem at all...sure it recuires more memory etc etc,but he..the ps3 is very very capable of doing this and for the maybe online problems wich will occur,sure pd will sort everything out:)...
 
Well, PD have not always put every track from a previous game into the next. So nothing is guaranteed. But I realy do hope that Nurburgring will be back, cause it is my favorite.
 
If 6 well rendered cars can run on the Nurb in GT4, on the puny PS2 hardware, there would be no problem with 16 even better rendered cars on the processing powerhouse that is the PS3.
 
By the way, I wouldn't mind also having (next to the Nord Schleiffe) the F1 used Nurburg track (old and new, while we're at it) and the shorter one used by the DTM. But now I might get a bit carried away. ;)
 
TopHat
If 6 well rendered cars can run on the Nurb in GT4, on the puny PS2 hardware, there would be no problem with 16 even better rendered cars on the processing powerhouse that is the PS3.
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Agreed

I get the feeling that people are looking for problems that don't / won't exist.
 
Denur
By the way, I wouldn't mind also having (next to the Nord Schleiffe) the F1 used Nurburg track (old and new, while we're at it) and the shorter one used by the DTM. But now I might get a bit carried away. ;)
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youre not getting carried away man...not at all!!...i would love to race an 1970's f1 car around the norschleife!!:)
 
No im not worried its PS3 and I dont have a crappy connection:tup:...
 
JASE72
Agreed

I get the feeling that people are looking for problems that don't / won't exist.
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Or taking the ones that do/might exist and blowing them out of proportion.
 
spyrrari
youre not getting carried away man...not at all!!...i would love to race an 1970's f1 car around the norschleife!!:)
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haha wouldnt we all, i dont even understand why there are no classic cars/tracks games made by PD or even other enthusiasts like them, that would be one amazing game if it was done to their levels. Im talking like GTL but on PS3 and with more cars and tracks...ah well maybe one day.
 
Denur
By the way, I wouldn't mind also having (next to the Nord Schleiffe) the F1 used Nurburg track (old and new, while we're at it) and the shorter one used by the DTM. But now I might get a bit carried away. ;)
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Do you mean the unused Sudchlieffe course and the F1 Nurburgring. They might as well include the 24hr full course as well, which is the F1 course plus the Nordschlieffe, mmmm i drool at the prospects.
 
TopHat
Or taking the ones that do/might exist and blowing them out of proportion.
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Yeah or that ;)
And as Soprano 3 1 3 said
Soprano 3 1 3
No im not worried its PS3 and I dont have a crappy connection:tup:...
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In this day and age if you intend on playing online having a good / high speed connection should be pretty much top of the list
 
you're freaking out about a game that's still 2years off. keep this up and you'll stroke out before you get your copy of Prologue.

client-server setup is not going to tax the system or the connection. It's small packets of data that is computed and sent to your screen, simple.

How many cars are on-track in Single player? oh wait, don't know that yet, as again, the game's a ways off. But suppose 16 in single player, all being processed by the unit. now instead of the unit doing the AI calculations 8 billion times a second, it's getting that data from a server, and consequently just plugs it into the on-screen entertainment that is the game.

simple.
 
I have a good connection, shouldn't be a prob here, and i'm sure Poly will fix any probs before release.
 
SavageEvil
Do you mean the unused Sudchlieffe course and the F1 Nurburgring. They might as well include the 24hr full course as well, which is the F1 course plus the Nordschlieffe, mmmm i drool at the prospects.
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I don't know the Sudschleiffe (must almost be one, if there is a Nord one), but please except my hankerchief and wipe your mouth. :dopey:
 
ICallShotgun
you're freaking out about a game that's still 2years off. keep this up and you'll stroke out before you get your copy of Prologue.

client-server setup is not going to tax the system or the connection. It's small packets of data that is computed and sent to your screen, simple.

How many cars are on-track in Single player? oh wait, don't know that yet, as again, the game's a ways off. But suppose 16 in single player, all being processed by the unit. now instead of the unit doing the AI calculations 8 billion times a second, it's getting that data from a server, and consequently just plugs it into the on-screen entertainment that is the game.

simple.
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And that explains why some players lag like hell . How?
 
16 player round daton will be the same as 16 players around nurburgring.....there are no online isses with this. only data players need to transfare is car position, not all the track details, thats already on your PS3
 
ICallShotgun
you're freaking out about a game that's still 2years off. keep this up and you'll stroke out before you get your copy of Prologue.

client-server setup is not going to tax the system or the connection. It's small packets of data that is computed and sent to your screen, simple.

How many cars are on-track in Single player? oh wait, don't know that yet, as again, the game's a ways off. But suppose 16 in single player, all being processed by the unit. now instead of the unit doing the AI calculations 8 billion times a second, it's getting that data from a server, and consequently just plugs it into the on-screen entertainment that is the game.

simple.
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I'm not quite sure you understand what goes on during online play... instead of computing AIs, the processing power is used to generate and extrapolate information packets into accurate data... so times 15 cars:

Current Speed
Current Direction
Current position in world (must be very accurate)
Current state of entity;
* Gas Consumption
* Tire Usage
* Emitted particles such as Smoke, sparks...
* Emitted events such as sounds, Tire squeals...
* state (damage wise even if only internal)
* Visual representation of car (especially if there is damage of some kind
Current Physical state of entity
and many others i won't bother listing here...

And that's not all, that information takes space... so lets say they can gather all this stuff in a 5kbs file; ... which must be sent every 1/4 of a second to 15 other platforms; that's 75kbs times 4, so 300kbs of information that must be sent per second... oh wait... to 15 other players... we're at roughly 4 megs. But you also have to receive that information from 15 other players, so... to be clear... you have the potential to exchange about 8000kbs (8 megs) per second... can your internet connection take it? Oh wait... I,m not even taking the time to "process" that information and display it on the screen (like you would say)... well then... that's a lot of stuff going on... naturally, a good programmers team will come up with some clever ways to send that information and pack it in smaller packages, or use some kind of encoding system and so forth... but still... its a bit more complex then saying: "it's getting that data from a server, and consequently just plugs it into the on-screen entertainment that is the game."

Now that however, does not solve the problem of the 'ring... but generally, the bigger the stuff to load (aka "the ring"), the most processing power is diverted from processing the information packet(s). Hence my worry that the Ring might be difficult to implement for online play.
 
I vote for Hereward:boggled:
 
i dont understand your concern.. the location of a car on a track probably requires .001% of the total memory loaded when the game runs - i dont see how it would have a significant effect on performance
 
RedOak
Current Speed - yes
Current Direction - yes
Current position in world (must be very accurate) yes
Current state of entity:
* Gas Consumption one 8bit number is enough
* Tire Usage same as above
* Emitted particles such as Smoke, sparks...
* Emitted events such as sounds, Tire squeals... - computed locally based on speed/direction
* state (damage wise even if only internal) -unknown yet
* Visual representation of car (especially if there is damage of some kind ya, but damage isnt confirmed yet
Current Physical state of entity same as above
and many others i won't bother listing here... -nothing else really
.
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basically none of these depend on the size of the track, other than "current position in the world", which adds maybe 10 bytes to each packet
 
I don't think that the PS3 will have any problems with 16 player's on the ring.
 
Theres actualy less info to transfare than say COD4 where you have 18 players max and about 18million bullets as well LOL The problems come when your PS3 actualy has to transfare that info into graphical content on your machine quicly enough for it to flow in real time, a GT5p car has a lot more polygons (poly's gone where?) than a character in COD4 and his bullets! this dose mean there should be plenty of bandwith left for coms!
 
This.

Vaxen
The track is client side data, so shouldn't be shared over the network. Large tracks like Nurburgring or Sarthe shouldn't have any special issues with online play.

To be honest, online play should (if anything) be better, since cars will tend to spread out more than on shorter tracks.
Click to expand...
 
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