Official: 2012 Camaro ZL-1 w/550HP

[Eric.]

Like someone said, it weighs less than the CTS-V and that thing hauls ass in every way.

 

[Azure Flare]

^^^^ The wagon hauls ass, and your stuff.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Im pretty sure this is what went on in the GM design room.
engineer 1-"what would jesus do to the new camaro."
engineer 2-" He'd throw a 🤬 LS9 on that 🤬"
engineer 1- "brilliant"

Ah, but it's not an LS9.

 

[Cale]

Yet how many Mustang variations are there?

I think the Z/28 could be a good Boss Mustang fighter if done right.

I don't think GM can do the Z28 any justice with this generation Camaro. The Boss isn't going to be really really good but I don't think GM can remove enough weight from the heavy Zeta platform to make a real track focused Camaro. The completely stripped w/composite panels (except for front fenders) Koni challenge Stevenson Camaro race car still weighs almost 3300lbs.

Bring on the Alpha Camaro.

 

[Exorcet]

Adding power makes it faster on straights. Dropping weight would make it faster everywhere. Why can't they see this?

Exactly. They passed up the chance to make some really good by settling for "put a bigger engine in it".

I hope one day that every trim level of a sports car has the same engine and the difference between the high end and low end models is weight.

 

[Adamgp]

Exactly. They passed up the chance to make some really good by settling for "put a bigger engine in it".

I hope one day that every trim level of a sports car has the same engine and the difference between the high end and low end models is weight.

The goal of this car is to go up against the GT500, a car with similar power and weight. It's not meant to go after the Boss 302.

The car won't be out for another year or so and most of you guys have written it off as not being able to handle. "Oh noez! It has a supercharged V8!"

Yes, it has the same engine as the CTS-V. It also the same magnetic ride control as the CTS-V, and ZR-1. Both of which handle very good.

 

[Exorcet]

I've said nothing about handling, just that the car is worse off being all engine instead of going for lighter weight. It could kill the Boss and the GT500 at the same time with less mass and a bit of downforce.

This car has no reason to exist as long as there is a Corvette IMO. It costs as much and it's a less impressive car in every performance category.

 

[YSSMAN]

The real way to decide how good it is would be to revive the old SCAA Trans Am racing series (NB if this already exists in some form or other then I plead ignorance). I'd much rather see a bunch of near-stock Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers etc racing against each other than some willy-waving arbitrary lap time at a circuit that no owner will ever take their car to.

As I recall, both Ford and Chevrolet were looking to put the Mustang and Camaro in the World Challenge series, but I don't remember how far out it ended up getting. Ford had the FR500GT and their one-make series not long ago, based on SEMA this past year, Chevrolet has plans for a track-ready Camaro as well.

If Chevrolet is going to build a Z/28, in my mind, there is one real way to do it:
Copy the BOSS 302 Mustang

If they strip out as much weight as possible (sound deadening, silly Camaro-specific parts, make the back seat optional), do a custom 5.3L V8 from the pickup trucks, and make an automatic transmission available, they'll out-sell Ford. I guarantee it.

=-=-=-=-=-=

Some thoughts on the ZL1:

It is an impressive bit of kit that they have packed into the car, but after seeing it in person, I'm less-impressed than I anticipated being. All-in-all, it ends up feeling more or less like a CTS-V in Chevrolet clothing. The wheels are nice, I like the new hood and front fascia, but the rest of the car just ends up being like a regular Camaro. Not having the "gills" be functional brake ducts surprised me, and the few cosmetic changes on the rear, and on the inside caught me off-guard. I think the only thing that really made me say, "Oh that's cool" was the ZL1 badges on the hood. Weird.

In the end, it doesn't feel as special as the BOSS 302. But, the ZL1 does come off a bit better than GT500.

 

[Eric.]

By "gills" you mean in the front bumper? One of the articles claimed they were for brake ducts.

 

[YSSMAN]

By "gills," I mean what's behind the doors on the rear quarter panel. It'd be nice if they were functional instead of just a stamped piece on the panel.

 

[Jim Prower]

Weren't functional originally, why start now?

 

[Pupik]

Weren't functional originally, why start now?

Good point, although it's not exactly the worst way to break with tradition.

Hmmph, tough crowd...I liked the dull matte black plastic on red. Even better in person!

 

[YSSMAN]

Did they manage to fix that turntable by the time you got there? That thing was practically on a stand-still when there on Saturday. It really made looking at the car difficult.


I just had a thought:

Camaro ZL1 Convertible. That'd be bad-ass.

 

[eSZee]

So, the LSA in the ZL1 will be making more than 550hp. The car looked pretty damn good and sounded nice as well.

 

[Zenith]

So Ford takes the Mustang, lightens it, sharpens it, and tunes it until it's competitive with a BMW M3.

GM takes the large, hefty Camaro and shoves a bigger engine in it.

The extra horsepower doesn't count for anything on a car this heavy and wayward. So far I'm completely unimpressed by the pimpmobile GM is calling a true pony car, a Z/28 that was tightened up and lightened may have swayed my opinion, but this probably won't.

Note: I know I own a Mustang and am therefore crowded in the usual Pony Car Brand War, but I promise that I'm open minded

 

[Cale]

From Matt Bell who drives a Camaro in the Koni Challenge series:

On another tangent, I'm not supposed to show you all this...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/likesitsideways/5856271726/

...I wasn't allowed to take pictures, but they didn't say anything about video!

Well since it's actually been released I don't think there's harm in me telling you about it. It's the new ZL1 Camaro that has an astonishing amount of horsepower and an even more astonishing sound. Now I'll admit, the SS model has its drawbacks, but the ZL1 really is a proper muscle car for the track. They were 1mph off our top speed at the end of the straight at VIR-- with street tires on which they drove there from Detroit! They showed up at about 10pm the night before to the track hotel and they sounded amazing. The idle is super lopey and the fit and finish has been fixed up a bit. It has the supercharged LS-A engine and a much closer set of gears. The aero package has been tweaked slightly based on some of our findings and it seems much more pinned at high speed compared to our GS car.

Really though, if GM ever gave me a Camaro, I'd probably ask to trade it for a CTS-V or something along those lines, but this new ZL1 tickled all of us racers in a place that made us want one really bad.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Mustang or Camaro, I wish either one was available here at a decent price. Because of taxes, import duties and emissions tax, a Camaro SS will cost you a whopping 84,000 euro in The Netherlands. I don't even want to know what the ZL-1 would cost over here. Though I'd like one.

 

[mPWRD]

84,000 euro? For a car that costs about $35,000 US? Wow.

I don't know why everyone's throwing out Boss comparisons. The Boss is meant to be a track-day car, and it does that pretty darn well. The ZL-1 is more comparable to the Shelby GT500. Bigger engine, some bolt-on bits, higher price.

 

[Paulie]

84,000 euro? For a car that costs about $35,000 US? Wow.

I don't know why everyone's throwing out Boss comparisons. The Boss is meant to be a track-day car, and it does that pretty darn well. The ZL-1 is more comparable to the Shelby GT500. Bigger engine, some bolt-on bits, higher price.

Right on the money, this is a GT500 competitor and by the sounds of it, if real racers like it then it will be an interesting fight. If Chevy wanted a Boss competitor then they'd have made a Z/28.
Me likey muscle cars, me likey very much.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Right on the money, this is a GT500 competitor and by the sounds of it, if real racers like it then it will be an interesting fight.

Check the new GT500 thread. Ford is testing a new car at the Nurburgring already, so we could definitely be in for an interesting fight.

 

[Tornado]

I don't know why everyone's throwing out Boss comparisons.

Because that is what they wanted, and GM didn't do anyone any favors by saying it was going to be called Z/28 all the way up to February of this year.

Also:

The Camaro has 99 problems; horsepower or an engine isn't one of them.

 

[Zenith]

I don't know why everyone's throwing out Boss comparisons. The Boss is meant to be a track-day car, and it does that pretty darn well. The ZL-1 is more comparable to the Shelby GT500. Bigger engine, some bolt-on bits, higher price.

Because a Z/28 would have improved the Camaro the most. It doesn't need a bigger engine with more power. It needs attention to its chassis and suspension to make it sharper.

 

[eSZee]

I was told by a certain someone that the car might have 600hp or more.
Certain documents prevent me from saying anything else.

 

[Cale]

Because a Z/28 would have improved the Camaro the most. It doesn't need a bigger engine with more power. It needs attention to its chassis and suspension to make it sharper.

They have made it better in all areas. Did you even read what I quoted? If GM wanted a BOSS fighter they could've made one, but that's not where the money is, or what the potential buyers want.

 

[Zenith]

It's well sorted, but a bit heavy.

 

[Cale]

ZL-1 vs Boss 302 LS

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...ord_mustang_boss_302_laguna_seca/viewall.html

 

[CodeRedR51]

Not really the best comparison IMO. Why not test the ZL-1 against a 2012 GT500?

 

[Tornado]

Although the Boss 302 is probably the best Mustang ever built, it just feels and performs like it's a generation behind.

That's quite the interesting statement considering how silly parts of this test were, for reasons R1600Turbo mentioned and others (Motor Trend weren't standing alone singing praises for the Camaro SS over the Mustang when it was refreshed last year).


Since the Coyote Mustang still handily beat the SS every time Motor Trend compared them, does that mean the non-ZL1 models are two generations behind?

 

[Keef]

Not really the best comparison IMO. Why not test the ZL-1 against a 2012 GT500?

To demonstrate the fact that the Boss isn't the top-performing Mustang but still stacks up well against a much more powerful car with a much more sophisticated suspension. I'm confident the new GT500 will outperform it in nearly every category.

 

[Tornado]

Not even close to being particularly related, but I stumbled across this while looking for the Motor Trend comparisons between the two over the past 3 years. So much fun to read.