OFFLINE FREE RUN <> ONLINE FREE RUN <> ONLINE RACE: why??

  • Thread starter Thread starter Silver_MK
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Why not a little empirical testing, here? Not the Nordschliese (too long, too many variables) but a nice predictable track... say Monza. Do THREE laps, and record the final lap time. Tires OUGHT to be warmed up, but relatively unworn (if you haven't hooned around the first two) and fuel load ought to still be high. Then one lap flat out...

Plenty of nice long corners to get oversteer on if the conditions change.

With all the telemetry options that PD offer in the game, why is anyone going on FEEL? 💡
 
Tommy_861
I noticed that as well but online it seems far more pronounced, which is likely a byproduct of the full tire wear being available.
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Tyre wear for offline (endurance races) and online is the same. Don't see why there would be any difference between them..

Destinkeys
Why not a little empirical testing, here? Not the Nordschliese (too long, too many variables) but a nice predictable track... say Monza. Do THREE laps, and record the final lap time. Tires OUGHT to be warmed up, but relatively unworn (if you haven't hooned around the first two) and fuel load ought to still be high. Then one lap flat out...

Plenty of nice long corners to get oversteer on if the conditions change.

With all the telemetry options that PD offer in the game, why is anyone going on FEEL? 💡
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Can't really test it on Monza since I don't think you can run on Monza with tyre wear and fuel depletion turned on offline. Has to be one of the endurance race tracks. I'll try to do some more tests later with a few cars, 5 laps of Tsukuba maybe (9 hour endurance race and online race). Will probably get same results again though.
 
They are defenitly different. I made a car that I can do stoppies and wheelies with but when I took it online to show people it would not work. Not at all, it became completely impossible.
 
Firehuntah
Tyre wear for offline (endurance races) and online is the same. Don't see why there would be any difference between them..
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I thought you were talking about regular offline non-endurance races, thats what I was talking about, and I believe snakebitten was as well.
 
Silver_MK
Exactly!!
The different between ONLINE and OFFLINE free run is the option ON / OFF "consume tyres / fuel".
We ask to PD to able manage all these parameters! :dopey:

incredible, PD is the King of senseless things!

Silver
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Why don't you try a one-make race in pratice mode or arcade mode with tires/fuel consumption and see if it handles anything like online. It doesn't. This is a online problem.
 
Tommy_861
DING You just answered your question. Because of the tire degradation online the tires start "cold" and yes they are slippery and the car will slide and oversteer for sometimes the entire first lap till the tires heat up. Then they get sticky, then they fall off over time. On the Nurburgring for about the first minute and a half on the track the tires are still not up to temperature. Offline the tires are consistent all through the race start to finish. You can have the perfect suspension setup it still can't change the fact the tires start out as 4 ice cubes at the start till they warm up.
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Interesting. Funny thing is that before the race starts alot of us have many many laps to position ourselves on the grid before the race starts. So by what you are saying the car should feel good after the tires warm up. This has not been the case with me during warm up. Warm up laps sometimes last waaay longer than the race itself lol

I had mentioned in a previous thread that I did back to back testing same day, time, settings etc with a number of cars Online then switched to Offline. Same settings on cars. Cars drove crappy Online and great Offline. And this is with 5 to 10 lap racing Offline and about 3-5 lap racing, room dependant, Online. The car was consistantly crappy online from lap 1 all the way to the end. I never felt like the car had any grip in the turns so if what you are saying is correct then I should have noticed this during practice and the race. Most of my races have been on Tsukuba so 3-5 lap tire degradation/fuel is pretty pathetic if thats how its programed.

Fuel should be a non issue with such a short race dont you think? If PD has tire degradation and fuel weight working for such short races it seems a bit overkill to me. The tank shouldnt need to be full for a short race adn the tires shouldnt degrade so decernable on such a short track/race. Nurburgring/Le Sarthe I fully understand them adding that little tweak to the physics but it should be toned way down for the much shorter race tracks and length of the race.

In other words, length of track and the number of laps to be run should be figured into the equation as to whether tire/fuel program is added. Most races online are a few laps so no need to experience a full spectrum of racing in those few laps as its unrealistic anyway. Short track but many laps or pretty long track with few laps then yeah I see the reason. And my tires should be warm up from the practice laps so I shouldnt have to deal with cold tires when the race starts a la F1 etc.

Maybe Ill give it another go this coming weekend and retest with your theory in mind on some longer races.👍
 
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So I just did some tests.. and I hate to say it but I'm kinda proving my earlier posts wrong. Tested with the Mazda Furai Concept on Tsukuba. Here are the results:


~ Tsukuba Mazda Furai Concept (all aids off except ABS 1, race hard tyres, stock settings) ~

- Offline (5 laps Tsukuba practice, tyre wear and fuel depletion off)
Best lap: 0:53,224 > bit of wheelspin when going almost full throttle through corners, car feels a bit different than in the other tests

- Offline (5laps Tsukuba One make race, tyre wear and fuel depletion on)
Best lap: 0:54,063 > bit of oversteer and wheelspin when going above 3/4th throttle in corners

- Offline (5 laps Tsukuba 9H endurance, tyre wear and fuel depletion on)
Best lap: 0:54,248 > same physics

- Online (empty lobby, 5 laps Tsukuba free run, tyre wear and fuel depletion on)
Best lap: 0:54,079 > same physics

- Online (empty lobby, 5 laps Tsukuba race, tyre wear and fuel depletion on)
Best lap: 0:54,163 > same physics

- Online (5 player lobby, 5 laps Tsukuba free run, tyre wear and fuel depletion on)
Best lap: 0:53,694 with some drafting > same physics

- Online ( player lobby, 5 laps Tsukuba race, tyre wear and fuel depletion on)
Best lap: Didn't get to test, no race was started. Probably around same lap time.



I have no idea why this same car felt so different yesterday, maybe it was just the track (Deep Forest) or some settings in the lobby. Really confused right now after doing these tests. Only difference I noticed with these tests was when tyre wear and fuel depletion was off during offline practice. But it wasn't anything huge like what I said about my races yesterday..
 
Snakebitten
Interesting. Funny thing is that before the race starts alot of us have many many laps to position ourselves on the grid before the race starts. So by what you are saying the car should feel good after the tires warm up. This has not been the case with me during warm up. Warm up laps sometimes last waaay longer than the race itself lol

I had mentioned in a previous thread that I did back to back testing same day, time, settings etc with a number of cars Online then switched to Offline. Same settings on cars. Cars drove crappy Online and great Offline. And this is with 5 to 10 lap racing Offline and about 3-5 lap racing, room dependant, Online. The car was consistantly crappy online from lap 1 all the way to the end. I never felt like the car had any grip in the turns so if what you are saying is correct then I should have noticed this during practice and the race. Most of my races have been on Tsukuba so 3-5 lap tire degradation/fuel is pretty pathetic if thats how its programed.

Fuel should be a non issue with such a short race dont you think? If PD has tire degradation and fuel weight working for such short races it seems a bit overkill to me. The tank shouldnt need to be full for a short race adn the tires shouldnt degrade so decernable on such a short track/race. Nurburgring/Le Sarthe I fully understand them adding that little tweak to the physics but it should be toned way down for the much shorter race tracks and length of the race.

In other words, length of track and the number of laps to be run should be figured into the equation as to whether tire/fuel program is added. Most races online are a few laps so no need to experience a full spectrum of racing in those few laps as its unrealistic anyway. Short track but many laps or pretty long track with few laps then yeah I see the reason. And my tires should be warm up from the practice laps so I shouldnt have to deal with cold tires when the race starts a la F1 etc.

Maybe Ill give it another go this coming weekend and retest with your theory in mind on some longer races.👍
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Regarding fuel weight, I mentioned earlier maybe fuel weight is factored as 0 offline and thats the reason... Although then again the car would feel different in the enduros as well. hmmm..

I may do some tests as well later tonight with a bone stock car on like Sport Soft tires or something.
 
Just tried the Karussell on the Nordschleife with the NSX JGTC in both offline one make race and a 14 player online free run (both with tyre wear and fuel depletion on). Took it perfectly without even any wheelspin offline and spun out twice online. So there's still some difference somewhere but I have no idea what's causing it. I mean.. being able to take the Karussell full throttle without any wheelspin and spinning out at even 1/2 throttle is quite a difference.. I took the exact same racing line. Guess you just notice the difference more on certain tracks (usually happens to me on bumpy tracks) cause I didn't really notice a difference on Tsukuba (which is pretty much flat).
 
Firehuntah
Just tried the Karussell on the Nordschleife with the NSX JGTC in both offline one make race and a 14 player online free run (both with tyre wear and fuel depletion on). Took it perfectly without even any wheelspin offline and spun out twice online. So there's still some difference somewhere but I have no idea what's causing it. I mean.. being able to take the Karussell full throttle without any wheelspin and spinning out at even 1/2 throttle is quite a difference.. I took the exact same racing line. Guess you just notice the difference more on certain tracks (usually happens to me on bumpy tracks) cause I didn't really notice a difference on Tsukuba (which is pretty much flat).
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I did a little research, I created a new post because I feel like it would get lost in here and I just spent about an hour doing it lol... check it out

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4837360#post4837360
 
Would like to add my thoughts to this thread. I also noticed this disparity when I first played GT5 online, cars were harder to control that when I was playing offline. After just coping and just watching my throttle inputs, I only recently realized that

1. tire temps vary depending on course and even more so when it's a weather enabled course

2. fuel plays a major part in weight of your auto

3. downforce is a double edged sword, it is necessary to have ample downforce to keep your car on the road as well as sufficient enough to allow your tires to heat up, too much and you will wear those tires faster

4. not sure about this, but I think that PD uses actual location temperatures when you race online, not good since they don't allow you to adjust tire pressure to compensate...bad move.

I've witnessed the downforce having an effect on tire temperature, also when you stop driving for any length of time online , your tires quickly begin to cool off.

If you want to practice, just head to your own lounge and practice there, get all the online amenities including ability to set weather to your own liking and time of day too.

I've spent so much time online that now when I drive offline i really sense no difference, unless I'm racing A Spec. I'll go check and report back about that.
 
Too many threads for the same darn topic! Go into the "online racing" sub-forum and so a search for "different online". The primary thread will then be listed. Lots of research has already been done. Lots of questions posed and answered. Since this issue varies tremendously from car to car and track to track, a final answer probably isn't ever going to be possible. Maybe it is more of a bug or a combination of bugs which lead to this problem, but it is there and no, it isn't just tire-wear, tire-temperature, or fuel-weight. Maybe in some cars on some tracks it feels that way, but in other cars on other tracks it's a complete nightmare even when you take all of the above into consideration. So go read the entirety of the original thread and you'll find lots of good theories and testing there.
 

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