OK can someone tell me how GT5 is better than NFS Shift or Grid?

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The physics simulation is in a league of it's own on this platform. The nice shiny game built around the physics engine has many flaws which we're all aware of, but for me it's a great playground. I'm guessing GT5's greatness is much less apparent when using a little DS controller but it absolutely comes alive with a good wheel.
 
 
I really enjoy GT5, it lived up to the hype for me and whatever you hate or misundersand about the game wont make me think otherwise.

I enjoyed GRID for its arcadeyness, Shift was an utter pile of crap.
 
X-Power
If you're not having fun in GT5, then quite frankly, you don't actually enjoy driving itself. The fun in GT5 comes from the realistic driving not from fake arcadey over the top gameplay...

...I don't think GT5 is the game for you if you don't enjoy the driving... GT5 is about the driving... Shift and Grid are just all flash and no trousers.
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Maybe some people would rather drive a real car if they want a realistic driving experience? Maybe some people can't experience the "thrill" of realistic driving without G-forces and a myriad of other sensations that are expensive or impractical to bring into the living room? If there's nothing specifically attracting you to the simulation of realistic physics, then a game like GT5 will just feel sterile and slow compared to the real thing.

Personally, I only like games with realistic physics for the flexibility and detail in car control, particularly in RWD cars. If there was a game with "perfectly" realistic physics that limited what you could do -- like only offering one car, a FWD economy hatchback, and disabling the handbrake -- it wouldn't hold much appeal to me. Sure, zipping around the track like a race driver, following the racing line and aiming for the best time would all be easily possible, but you wouldn't really be able to do much else.

That's why GT4's understeer-focused gameplay and erroneous oversteer/low-speed physics completely turned me off, while nearly everyone else loved it to death. If you're looking for a straight racing experience, it's an okay game. If you're looking for a flexible, accurate driving experience, it seriously falls short.

There are many, many ways to enjoy driving a car. GT5 doesn't even cover all of them, much less simulate what it has with pin-point accuracy.

X-Power
I don't even know why we're comparing these games, they share nothing in common, other than the fact that they both have cars.
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The fact that they're racing games is more than enough reason to compare them...as racing games.

What's ridiculous is how people conclude that "good/bad" shares a direct 1:1 relationship with "realistic/unrealistic," no matter the circumstances or goals of the developer.
 
Destinkeys
I have Shift and GT5. GT5 did not live up to the hype, there are innumerable posts by disgruntled GT4 players (so there's no fanboy bias), and most seem to feel at least a LITTLE shortchanged.

GT5's driving physics and graphics are very nice, but Shift was just so much FUN..! If you having fun automatically makes it an 'arcade' game, then so be it. GT5 could do with a healthy dose of arcade if that is the case!

I really hate to say it, but all Shift needed was GT5's accuracy of driving physics, better wheel FFB implementation (on my DFGT, driving a straight line was a terrible exercise in dampening unrealistically exaggerated wobble), and some increase in size of the Garage, and an online system that allowed bashers and lurkers to be booted, and GT5 would have gone back to the store.

Some of this is promised in Shift 2 Unleashed. If delivered, GT5 is going to have a run for it's money. I NEVER had any need to grind in Shift, upward progress was logical (if a little easy), online was a piece of cake to find fairly matched races, but the bashing was intolerable.

I THOUGHT GT5 was going to be the answer to all my prayers. At the moment, it isn't. Perhaps Kaz has great plans, perhaps he's just counting his money and working on GT6. Who knows? But I honestly, from all the hype, did NOT expect to find myself looking back on Shift with anything but scorn, and I did NOT expect myself looking forward to Shift 2 in any way...

God help me.... I do!
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Is there anyway to fix that "dead zone" steering problem? I played the demo and had real trouble driving straight, even after a bit of experimentation

X-Power
If you're not having fun in GT5, then quite frankly, you don't actually enjoy driving itself. The fun in GT5 comes from the realistic driving not from fake arcadey over the top gameplay. All that stuff you mentioned, flag girls, checkered flags, crash sounds, are nice but they don't add anything to the actual gameplay itself. NFS Shift and Grid have these things but that doesn't make the driving fun or realistic. Grid's driving is not even slightly realistic and Shift's cars slide all over the place. I would never trade GT5's realistic and rewarding driving for Shift/Grid's unrealistic, over the top and arcadey driving. I don't think GT5 is the game for you if you don't enjoy the driving... GT5 is about the driving... Shift and Grid are just all flash and no trousers. I don't even know why we're comparing these games, they share nothing in common, other than the fact that they both have cars.
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I think you missed his point. If your playing Gran Turismo 5 just for it's "realistic driving", then you really are selling yourself short. You should be playing iRacing, GTR, GTR2, GTR EVO, Live for Speed, RFactor ...........
 
Well I haven't played the last 50 NFS games or so but I own Grid, and I find it very arcade-ish.. Plus GT5 will continue to be patched.
 
Grid was an AWESOME game! I really enjoyed it... why we haven't seen another one since is beyond me... perhaps the grid team was thrown at F1 2010 and the Dirt series clearly has priority but I did hear that Grid two is in the works...
 
Lawndart
Grid was an AWESOME game! I really enjoyed it... why we haven't seen another one since is beyond me... perhaps the grid team was thrown at F1 2010 and the Dirt series clearly has priority but I did hear that Grid two is in the works...
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I agree. I tried Shift and i didn't like it but i tried the Grid demo and was a different story. Not a GT, but great fun. 👍
 
Never played shift so can't comment on that one, but I did have grid and really enjoyed it, especially the sponsers system and livery editor. However, I much prefer the feel and style of GT5 although GT4 was a better game IMO. Hopefully it will improve with patches, it has a bit already.
 
irishbill76
So, according to you, because PD say its a sim, it is?
How? Where are the burst tyres? Where are the cracked windscreens? Where is the dirt? As for the crashes, pfff! As for the so called AI, puleese! Why doesnt my G25 rumble when I hit rumble strips? Why when I hit the grass in corner, does every single car, regardless of what aids I do or dont use, end up facing the wrong way? Why is the clutch not progressive? And why dont any of the cars stall if I dont give them enough gas when starting from a standstill?

Simulation. Yeah right.

You find me one single independent test anywhere on the face of the planet that actually says for dead certainty that GT5 is a sim and I'll happily eat my shorts.
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Not quite sure why you're taking that tone with me.

Burst tyres, cracked windscreens, and dirt are all cosmetic and not what I was pointing at. I'm talking about the car physics in GT, pretty much as realistic as you'll get when it comes to simulating something like that. With Gran Turismo, each car behaves as it's real-life counterpart does, and that's the important thing. I couldn't care less about cracked windscreens and dirt, as long as the car drives properly, then that's fine. Everything else can always be programmed and added in a free update.

What I've found with arcade-style games is that they have all these bells and whistles (cracked windscreens and the like) because they're usually making up for what they're lacking in other departments (the act of driving the car and the physics connected with it) and the games companies can't be bothered to spent the time on details. "It's a car, it goes fast, the kids'll love this and we'll make lots of money".

The key thing here is, I've been playing the GT series since 1998. I played Grid for 3 days and got bored because it was so superficial.

By the way, my DFP rumbles perfectly fine with GT5. Not sure what's going on with your wheel, try checking the settings.
 
s00zster
With Gran Turismo, each car behaves as it's real-life counterpart does, and that's the important thing.
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Not so. Take the stock car (NASCAR) for a spin in iRacing. You won't last a lap before having an accident of some kind, especially on a circuit track. NASCAR's are ferocious beasts, something Polyphony didn't replicate very well.
 
GT4 better that GT5? Long time GT fan since its U.S. release in 98 and I see it like this.

Physics? GT5.
Car list? GT5
Graphics/Sounds? GT5.
Track List? GT4.
Wheel Support? GT5.
Online? GT5.
AI? GT5.
Gameplay structure? GT4.

The only reason to play GT4 is the track list(or nostalgia).... To be better it would be the one you would choose if you had to. If I had to choose it would not be GT4.

I played Shift again after GT5 and even thought physics are not as good, Shift is just more intense with the threat of crashing feels more dangerous. The AI is brutally aggressive and just mean in Shift:) The point system also adds to the gameplay.
 
GRID - Good graphics, decent car selection with decent modeling, good damage.. But GRID - Horrible physics, badly modeled/inaccurate tracks, horrible wheel optimisation, stupid and dangerous AI with massive rubber banding.

GT5 is so much bigger, so much better. GRID was a fun game but it cannot even compare with GT5 as a driving game or simulation.
 
I stop playing Grid and Shift very fast from the start, reason was it was to same and same again and it was way to much arcade. There was some grate interesting features, but Im not interested in those so much. GT still keeps me playing it.
 
Bigbazz
GRID - Good graphics, decent car selection with decent modeling, good damage.. But GRID - Horrible physics, badly modeled/inaccurate tracks, horrible wheel optimisation, stupid and dangerous AI with massive rubber banding.

GT5 is so much bigger, so much better. GRID was a fun game but it cannot even compare with GT5 as a driving game or simulation.
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Grids killer is the default wheel setting(like Dirt), even if you find a decent setting once you try a drift mode the settings are useless...
 
Not so. Take the stock car (NASCAR) for a spin in iRacing. You won't last a lap before having an accident of some kind, especially on a circuit track. NASCAR's are ferocious beasts, something Polyphony didn't replicate very well.
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I've seen some commented that Iracing car physics is far from being realistic , no where realistic as it's tracks. Now I don't know how realistic it is when it comes to Nascar but even Iracing has it's limits. This is why they are called simulators.
 
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I really enjoy GRID and Shift (In fact, Shift is the only game I have the Platinum trophy for) but IN MY OPINION, they don't hold a candle to GT5 in the physics or fun factor departments.

I have heard countless people say that GRID and Shift have better damage models than GT, but I'd have to disagree. If you hit something in real life, whether it be another car, a tree, dog, or whatever, at a pretty high rate of speed, your car won't be moving from that spot on it's own. In all these games, and in all the "hardcore" PC sims, you can drive away. Sure, some games will have a broken suspension, and the car will handle worse, but I would rather have realistic crashes to go with my realistic physics, rather than I can drive away from almost anything, crashes.

As far as fun factor, all three games have it. To me, personally, driving is of utmost importance in a driving/racing game, and the one with the most realistic driving will be the one I find to be the most fun. I'm currently doing the 4hr Roadster endurance race on GT5 (taking a break at the moment, obviously) and I am having tons of fun. I can't think of another game that I would actually *like* driving a Miata. It's the physics that do it for me, and that's why GT5 is my personal favorite.

There are certainly things that GT5 can imporve, and learn from Shift. Engine sounds, for example. That's actully the only thing I can think of at the moment, but you get my point.

All three games have something different to offer to the player. They are focused on different things, (although one could argue Shift doesn't feel focused at all) and if you enjoy driving games, I think you could enjoy all three. However, given the choice between GT5 and any other console game (and PC games honestly, although GT Legends has a special place in my heart) I'd choose GT5 everytime.

Respectfully,

Parker
 
There are PC sims where you can total your car. I doubt too many console gamers would like the fact that a hard hit in the wall means game over especially online. (Dirt 2 you could total you car but no other mechanical damage)
 
s00zster
Burst tyres, cracked windscreens, and dirt are all cosmetic and not what I was pointing at. I'm talking about the car physics in GT, pretty much as realistic as you'll get when it comes to simulating something like that. With Gran Turismo, each car behaves as it's real-life counterpart does, and that's the important thing. I couldn't care less about cracked windscreens and dirt, as long as the car drives properly, then that's fine. Everything else can always be programmed and added in a free update.
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I agree, details that are largely cosmetic are less important. But bursting tires, dirt accumulation (on tires anyway), crashes, on-grass behavior and clutch simulation are not cosmetic, nor are they inconsequential if you're aiming for a true simulation. And I can think of one game in particular that features that entire list, and recreates them quite well.

I would also call into question whether GT is "as realistic as you'll get" in car physics and if each car "behaves as its real-life counterpart does." As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, PC sims call out the former. GT5's default suspension settings and other issues belie the latter.

s00zster
What I've found with arcade-style games is that they have all these bells and whistles (cracked windscreens and the like) because they're usually making up for what they're lacking in other departments (the act of driving the car and the physics connected with it) and the games companies can't be bothered to spent the time on details. "It's a car, it goes fast, the kids'll love this and we'll make lots of money".
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Driving a car quickly and properly in a detailed simulation is not a lazy thing to do. It's not what the majority of gamers want when they come home after a long day and decide to unwind with a racing game. And it's not necessary in order to have fun. A lack of realistic, believable physics is not an automatic sign of laziness on the part of the developer, either; you'd be better off to contend that it's a sign of laziness on the part of the target audience. Which is true, more or less, but doesn't make them any less a gamer.

In the end, there are good "arcade" racing games and bad "arcade" racing games. There are good racing "sims" and games that call themselves "sims" that really aren't. Of those games that call themselves "sims" that really aren't, some of them are still good and fun, and others aren't.

There are many, many factors that can go into whether or not a racing game is "good," and it's mostly a subjective issue in the first place. "Physics realism" is not a universal scale of quality.
 
Zoom!Zoom!
There are PC sims where you can total your car. I doubt too many console gamers would like the fact that a hard hit in the wall means game over especially online. (Dirt 2 you could total you car but no other mechanical damage)
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Thank you for bringthing that up. I was going to mention it in my original post, but lost my train of thought.

And that is the exact reason I don't understand all the complaining about damage. "Oh, well Forza, or Shift, has a better damage system." I don't agree with that at all. Neither one has a realistic damage system, but they do have a more dramatic cosmetic damage system. I would rather there be no damage system at all, than one like we have now, or in Forza or Shift. That's just my personal opinion, of course.

And regarding the PC sims, yes I do realize that there are some in which you can total your car, but I have never played one that did it realistically. Generally speaking (from the ones I've played) you have to have many accidents before the car will be undriveable.

Parker
 
Too many points to discuss... Shift is a true example of half-backed "game," where GT5 at least works properly in the gamplay, and it only feels incomplete in content, which can be added later. In Shift is impossible to drive, has terrible sounds, jumpy graphics, again, terrible physics... and so... I havn´t played Grid, so I can´t tell you if its good or bad... Even Dirt 1, without coming from a multimillion dollar company like EA , destroys any NFS title, and its super fun to play...
 
peobryant
I would rather there be no damage system at all, than one like we have now, or in Forza or Shift. That's just my personal opinion, of course.
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Same here. It's annoying to be penalized with an ugly, mangled bumper just because you happen to slightly brush an AI car, while cars still slide and bounce off of each other like the "bumper cars" they've been for years. And I doubt realistic collision kinetics will ever reach mainstream adoption considering it makes racing against AI a cakewalk and online multiplayer an even greater hazard than usual -- you can just pit everyone and zoom ahead.

peobryant
And regarding the PC sims, yes I do realize that there are some in which you can total your car, but I have never played one that did it realistically. Generally speaking (from the ones I've played) you have to have many accidents before the car will be undriveable.

Parker
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Live for Speed is pretty close, lacking only in engine/drivetrain damage and the extent of body/suspension deformation from high-speed collisions. With suspension damage, your car can easily become undrivable...the problem is that you can still try to drive it, even after a 120mph head-on wreck.
 
FastTech
I'd leave GRID far behind because the physics were terrible. You could actually drift your way around corners without having to brake.
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You can do this in GT5 as well, if you don't have SRF and TCS on. Pretty much any car will go around turns sideways. Perhaps Grid doesn't have offer a SRF or TCS driver aid.
 
I think Shift lived up to expectations.
No one expected it to be good.

Kaz said expect perfection.
I'm still waiting.

Grid, can't comment. I read somewhere this game is terrible with a wheel.
Therefor I never bought it.
 
Zoom!Zoom!
There are PC sims where you can total your car. I doubt too many console gamers would like the fact that a hard hit in the wall means game over especially online. (Dirt 2 you could total you car but no other mechanical damage)
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I would love to see that on consoles. 👍
 
@ SzooZster: Its been a real horrible day for me and I vented at you. For that, I apologise sincerely.
I take your point that GT5 does have better car handling physics than just about any other game out there but, for me personally, for any game company to label their product as a simulator, it should simulate real life. This includes damage for anything car/racing related. Im not one of these idiots who particularily likes finishing a race with a mangled heap, but if I finish a race with a few dents here and there, it gives me the incentive to try again and finish with a pristine car.
As for the wheel, well, GT5's the only game I can think of that does'nt do half decent force feedback. Its practically non-existant on the road races, but severe overkill on rally stages. Go figure.

@ peobryant: Unfortunately, you are wrong. GRID does in fact completely trash your car if you stack it into a wall at speed. Its rendered completely dead.

@Spaghetti69: Yep, GRID has the worst steering wheel support of any game Ive ever played. Its horrible.
 

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