Ok, I got me a Lancer ES 04 and I want to add performance

  • Thread starter Thread starter cobragt
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Not unless you have more money than brains, no.

Isn't a good engine swap that's never been done before around $15,000 (Probably more)? Hey, that's a great idea. Let's tell him to go out and pay as much as he paid for the car just to get an extra 150hp, when if that would've been feesible he would've just gotten the Evo.
 
For the car, I'd suggest keeping it really simple. Adding power isn't all that hard, but I'm guessing the Lancer chassis (FWD?) isn't that great for performance. Even if you do get an Evo engine, if it is FWD you'll be chewing up and spitting out tyres all day. Then there's the gearbox, how strong are they?
One of my mates has an old mirage with a 4G63, spends more on tyres than gas, but that could be because his right foot is an on-off switch like device.

Ideally, I'd think about the handling more than outright power, 1000 hp isn't that useful wrapped around a pole.
 
Ghost C
Isn't a good engine swap that's never been done before around $15,000 (Probably more)?
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No, especially not with the engine and car in question here. You can easilly find a decent 4G63 engine and trans combo from a DSM for less than $1000. Spend another $1000 to get that rebuilt. Then, maybe $1000 to get it installed, if it requires some fabbing, which I'm sure it will need a little. An Evo 4G63 would be great, since its built to fit in that car. But, you'd be hard pressed to find a decent engine/trans combo from one for less than $5000. I say, go for a FWD DSM engine/trans, and mod from there. The sky is the limit with the 4G63.

Hilg
 
Let me reiterate... there are stock TURBO 4G93s sold in other markets... only trick is to get one... That would be as simple a swap as you can get, as the mounting hardware wouldn't be all that different, and the cost would still be reasonable... otherwise, go ahead and find a shop that would do a low power turbo set-up for you with a piggyback and extra injectors.

A 4G63T into an ES body would require mounts and an FF 4G63T tranny, which I haven't seen in many recent vintage Mitsus... EDIT... okay, a DSM tranny and an EVO engine would work... but I still don't think it's worth it.

Have you ever seen an FF 4G63T powered Lancer? I have. They put it up in a drag race against a B16A powered Civic... which won... by a whole lot. That Lancer was all wheelspin and no forward motion at all. It's not worth the money unless you plan to drive around on drag-tires all day.
 
niky
okay, a DSM tranny and an EVO engine would work... but I still don't think it's worth it.
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No, it wouldn't work. The Evo 4G63 spins the opposite direction and sits the opposite way in the engine bay. So, an Evo 4G63 with a DSM trans would have the transmission fighting with the radiator and front bumper for space. Thats why I suggested the DSM engine. And, by the way, from '90 - '99 they sold FWD DSMs. The AWD DSM is actually much more rare than the FWD version. So, there are plenty of FWD engine/trans combos around to use. The Evo engine/trans combo is just way to big of a hassle to use because of the AWD.
niky
Have you ever seen an FF 4G63T powered Lancer? I have. They put it up in a drag race against a B16A powered Civic... which won... by a whole lot. That Lancer was all wheelspin and no forward motion at all. It's not worth the money unless you plan to drive around on drag-tires all day.
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That sounds like driver and differential problems, not too much power. There are lots of cars out there with plenty of power and fwd. Have you ever seen a modded SRT Neon??? Those make power like no other, and are FWD, but get around just fine because they have a good diff.

I'm not talking about getting this thing up to like 400hp. But, just stock the DSM engine has around 200hp, depending on year. Thats easy to use and drive. If you would have trouble getting the power down with 200hp in a Lancer, maybe you should just skip adding any power at all to anything.

Hilg
 
Thats 10 seconds into the quarter mile you engine blows, not 10 seconds and you've completed the quarter mile.
 
JNasty4G63
No, it wouldn't work. The Evo 4G63 spins the opposite direction and sits the opposite way in the engine bay. So, an Evo 4G63 with a DSM trans would have the transmission fighting with the radiator and front bumper for space. Thats why I suggested the DSM engine. And, by the way, from '90 - '99 they sold FWD DSMs. The AWD DSM is actually much more rare than the FWD version. So, there are plenty of FWD engine/trans combos around to use. The Evo engine/trans combo is just way to big of a hassle to use because of the AWD.
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Good point! 👍 I didn't know that they spun the wrong way... And I have seen FF DSMs around here... just don't know how well the tranny/axles will fit the Lancer body... I've had that problem when swapping engines between platforms, and it's a bugger.

As a question, does the Lancer SOHC sit in the same orientation as the EVO engine, or the DSM? because if the DSM is backwards to the SOHC config, that's another big headache.

That sounds like driver and differential problems, not too much power. There are lots of cars out there with plenty of power and fwd. Have you ever seen a modded SRT Neon??? Those make power like no other, and are FWD, but get around just fine because they have a good diff.

I'm not talking about getting this thing up to like 400hp. But, just stock the DSM engine has around 200hp, depending on year. Thats easy to use and drive. If you would have trouble getting the power down with 200hp in a Lancer, maybe you should just skip adding any power at all to anything.

Hilg
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Actually, it was part driver, part engine... it was an old Lancer with an old EVO engine... horrible lag coupled with too little weight and probably a crude solution to the AWD-FF conversion. To keep it out of that big dead spot before the boost came on, he had the thing revving, but he couldn't control the wheelspin and (conversely) bogged when the engine came off boost. There are some FF dragsters here using EVO engines, but it takes a lot of balancing and way to much money (in my opinion) to get it right... money which could have been spent on a Honda FF platform instead.
 
I've done some more reading!!!!!
Amazing huh..

Apparently people HAVE seen 4g63T powered Lancer ES's..

but they are slower than I/H/E Civics......

Apparently the wheelspin is litterally THAT bad on the swap..
 
I would think so... at least now I know I wasn't imagining things when I saw that sucker run... :lol:
 
I've seen many a fast FWD turbo car, and I just don't see how this can be bad. Say you put the DSM FWD engine trans combo in. Get a decent diff, and good tires, and you'll be fine. I've seen 400hp FWD DSMs get around just fine with a Kaaz and NT555s. And, as I've said, the new SRT-4 Neons now come with a Quaife diff stock. I've seen some very powerful examples of that car that put the power down very well. Now sure, there is some wheelspin with those. There is with any car with that much power and only 2 wheels to put it down with. But, if you have a good diff and tires, you'll be fine. Like I said, we're only talking about 200hp or so here, not 400. That will be fine.

Hilg
 
High powered FF Cars when engineered as such aren't that bad, we're just talking about people trying to make an AWD Monster's engine work in an FF car with a tranny that's just not optimised for it.

The DSM is a good powerful FF car, but that chassis and tranny are built for it. The Lancer just isn't.

I'd say the guy should save up his money and buy a motorbike. Better a new car with an intact warranty + a fast bike than a new car with a voided warranty, in a thousand pieces, that only works nine weeks out of ten.
 
Hmm, sorta insane idea, but would it be possible to cheaply import an older Evo (III or so?) with no intention of making it legal, and swapping over the entire drivetrain? Even a clip w/ drivetrain could accomplish the same. Only question is if there'd be any advantage over a 1g DSM swap.
 
I don't know how well the drivetrain would swap over between generations. I've seen an EVO V and an EVO VII swap with the whole AWD system ported over, but only for same-model cars. You'll need a full front-clip and a cut-out rear subframe with the mounts for the rear-differential on top of all the drivetrain hardware.

EDIT: I can't vouch for the safety of cutting out the rear multi-link mounting brackets and replacing them... this is basically a do-it-at-your-own-risk conversion!

Commonly, these swaps are also done with the doors, front fenders, bodykit, bumpers, hood, wheels, brakes, seats, etc... of the EVO, with only the pillars, roof and floorpan remaining stock... The whole shebang (for an EVO VI) costs around $10k here (likely cost more due to importation there), don't know how much it'll cost for an EVO VII to VIII (same body as the ES), but it may cost a lot less without the aluminum body panelling...

If it's legal to do this swap with the drivetrain in your state (not likely if you're from Cali... :lol: ), and you're willing to take the risk, hey, go for it. It will be hella fast, and the only problem will be that the chassis will not be quite as stiff as an EVO chassis, and you'll still have to flare the fenders to fit the wider track if you don't get the body panelling from the EVO.

I often wonder if it will work for the Mirage, as that's basically a two-door Lancer and was sold here side-by-side with the four-door model with the same drivetrains and engines... but I'm not sure if the wheelbases are the same... would be nice... but they often just do the V6 MIVEC (FTO) swap for those... which is supposed to be a pain in the ass because of the wiring.
 
Takumi Fujiwara
Hmm, sorta insane idea, but would it be possible to cheaply import an older Evo (III or so?) with no intention of making it legal, and swapping over the entire drivetrain? Even a clip w/ drivetrain could accomplish the same. Only question is if there'd be any advantage over a 1g DSM swap.
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I thought about that. The Evo I-III engine was the same setup as the DSM setup, just with more upgrades. Thats why people often use Evo III bits on mild tuned DSMs. They had a better exhaust manifold, turbo, stronger rods, and so on.

But, the reason I decided against that was cost. I'm sure you could find a decent Evo III engine, but then you have to get it here. And, then once you have it, you'd probably want to rebuild it. Gets into some higher costs at that point that you don't need. If you get a 1G 6-bolt DSM 4G63, and then just rebuild that, you'll have a motor thats every bit as strong as the Evo engine, if not more. It would just be easier to do here in the states since Evo III engines are few and far between.
niky
The DSM is a good powerful FF car, but that chassis and tranny are built for it. The Lancer just isn't.
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See, again, we're only talking about 200hp or so. I highly doubt a Lancer with a 4G63 in it will be undriveable. Again, yes, if it was a modded 4G63 pushing 400hp, then sure. But, in its stock form, its only 200hp or so. Thats hardly CRAZY ammounts of power. Hell, with a decent ammount of bolt ons, tuning, and upgrages to the stock motor, you can easilly get up to 170-180hp range. I don't see how that extra 20-30hp is going to make the car silly to drive.

Hilg
 
How expensive is an Evo compared with a Lancer? Shouldn't be THAT far off, why don't you save for a year or two and buy an Evo?
 
An Evo costs TWICE the price of the Lancer ES.

Not everyone has $30,000 to throw at a car!

Why don't we stop giving him stupid recommendations like this, people. Motor swaps are wholly unattainable for this guy - If you can't see that, you should stop recommending modifications for people's cars, as I highly doubt your intelligence.

SEARCH FOR THE THINGS I LISTED BEFORE ON EBAY. THEY WILL BE YOUR BEST BET AND WILL NOT COST AN ARM AND A LEG.
 
Ghost C
Why don't we stop giving him stupid recommendations like this, people. Motor swaps are wholly unattainable for this guy - If you can't see that, you should stop recommending modifications for people's cars, as I highly doubt your intelligence.
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Well, thanks for calling us all stupid. Just because you have a suggestion, that doesn't mean everyone else is an idiot. We are all just offering suggestions, ease up man. What you suggested is going to get him very little anyway. His car has 120hp. A new clutch an flywheel???? Come on. I doubt the stock pieces are struggling with the power.

The car is never going to be fast without lots of work. The only fast Lancers out there are turbo, or very highly modded. Bolt-ons do very little for almost every NA car, especially one that starts with 120hp. We're just suggesting, if he want's real speed, a turbo kit, or swap is the only way to get it. Bolt ons just waste your money, and give very little back in return.

Hilg
 
My point wasn't that he could get tons of power out of bolt ons so much as my point was that he can't do an engine swap.

I understand that his engine sucks, I understand that even with every bolt on he could buy his car would probably only make 175hp. But what nobody else seemed to notice is this guy doesn't know what he's doing.

Turbonator and performance do not belong in the same sentence together, ever. I don't especially want to see someone driving around in a 200hp torque steering car that doesn't know what they're doing.

And yes, 200hp will torque steer. My car was made to handle 200hp to the front wheels and it still torque steers, so let's just imagine what it will do in a car built to handle about half that, that weighs 800lbs less, with an inexperienced driver.

Let's all jump right in and give him more great ideas. Perhaps he should just go drive his car into a pole now and save himself the trouble of spending money on modifying it, eh?
 
csmaster09
Great! Lets tell a kid that wants cheap mods to import an old evo and swap the entire drivetrain! :lol: :lol:
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:lol:
Thats what I was thinking. Intake, exhaust, etc is about it... the rest is 'hardcore.'

Truth is-- its not a good platform. He'd need a rebuilt bottom end (forged) for the boost. Even if he went N/A heads and cam he'd need tons of extras and it would stress the motor quite a bit. Needless to say I'm sure he'd be happy with the generic mods... I mean he wants a turbonator for christ sakes@! lol

Guess we should ask what his budget is. :lol:
 
He's already said his budget is a little over $1k or so. And again, I never said the DSM 4G63 was the only, or best, option. I just said that if power is what you want, a swap is going to be your only real option with that car. And even then, not a real god one.

The stock engine makes next to no power to start with. So, any mods are just going to bring it up from horribly under-powered to just mildly under-powered.

I also didn't know we were talking about a kid here. I had no clue how old he is. If thats the case, I say save your money on mods and just drive it as is. They won't do any good, so just save the money. Buy something else with that money.

Hilg
 
JNasty4G63
See, again, we're only talking about 200hp or so. I highly doubt a Lancer with a 4G63 in it will be undriveable. Again, yes, if it was a modded 4G63 pushing 400hp, then sure. But, in its stock form, its only 200hp or so. Thats hardly CRAZY ammounts of power. Hell, with a decent ammount of bolt ons, tuning, and upgrages to the stock motor, you can easilly get up to 170-180hp range. I don't see how that extra 20-30hp is going to make the car silly to drive.

Hilg
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Not undriveable, heck, the guy who raced that one runs it as a daily drive... but fast in the 1/4th and on track, definitely not... at least not fast enough to make up for the expense of the swap.

With a DSM engine, at 200hp, granted, that's okay, and driveable. :)

I know the kid won't be able to afford this stuff, that's why I keep saying it's not worth the money to do all this with a brand new car... but it's fun to think about.
 
The thing is, once you start increasing power, you will always want more. No matter how much power you have, you will eventually get used to it.
Before doing anything, ask yourself if you really want to modify an ES Lancer. Do you see yourself keeping it or selling it on?

From what I'm reading, you seem to want to modify it for the sake of modifying it. Not good. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.

Keep the mods simple and you should be sorted, and is there a possibility of trading it in and getting something older and more performance oriented, if that is the route you want to go. Otherwise keep it stock, and save up for something more worthwhile.
 
csmaster09
Great! Lets tell a kid that wants cheap mods to import an old evo and swap the entire drivetrain! :lol: :lol:
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Hey, I was just wondering if it was possible, not really suggesting it...

Oh, by the way, I've heard of a couple evo-swapped Mirages.
 
Takumi Fujiwara
Hey, I was just wondering if it was possible, not really suggesting it...

Oh, by the way, I've heard of a couple evo-swapped Mirages.
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Don't get me drooling, there's a Mirage sitting in my garage right now, and my cousin is talking about doing the swap right before he leaves for the US... (he's bringing it home with him when his time studying here is over...) :D
 
cobragt,

In the last 10 or so years, my friends and myself have done up around a dozen small cars (1.6 - 2.2L). The following advice is my opinion only and I respect that others may disagree with me completely.

1 - MAKE SURE THE CAR IS MECHANICALLY SOUND
It's no use doing anything to the car if it needs repairs or safety work done on it. Take it to a good mechanic and have them give it a full service. Take it to a suspension shop and get them to give it a safety check. Check the body for rust and the seams for cracks. Make sure seatbelts work and the lights all turn on and off when you want.

2 - FIND PEOPLE WITH YOUR CAR
While asking people on forums such as this can be enlightening (or at least entertaining) you would be better served going to a Mitsubishi forum or similar to ask people who actually own these sorts of cars. Usually they will be more than happy to answer your questions and brag about what they have done to their cars. Try searching Yahoo and Google for 'Lancer modified forum'.

3 - KEEP WITHIN YOUR BUDGET
It's no good if you spend all your money on it just to find you can't afford to fix it when it breaks down - and it will break down, all cars do over time. Don't put yourself in to debt doing up your car unless you know for certain you can pay the money back - it's a horrible feeling having to sell your car to pay for what you just put in to it.

4 - KEEP TO THE BASICS
Unless you intend on racing your car on the track you will not need purpose made track equipment - you'll just be wasting your money.

Get a good air filter. If you use a pod style then you may want to put in some heat shielding so you're not sucking in hot engine bay air. Not all washable (sponge) air filters are high flow - shop around. Unless you are running the engine at high revs all the time you will not really need to make huge changes here as most cars suck in more than enough air stock standard.

For a near stock engine you wont need any larger than 2inch dia exhaust. The standard catalytic converter should be enough, but if it is old and needs replacing then look for a performance or high flow design. Remember, if you make your exhaust pipe too big, it may sound louder but you will lose power as the air cools too quickly in the pipes and becomes dense and harder to push through.

Use good spark plugs and, if possible, good leads. A good spark makes a world of difference.

Make sure the handling is good. Shocks, springs, strut bars, tyres... these things can be relatively cheap but make the car feel like a completely different monster.

Chips - no, not the sort you eat. A fairly cheap and efficient way to get better power is to have the engine chip replaced or modified. There are a number of different manufacturers and you should look for one that is suitable for your needs.

5 - HIGH PERFORMANCE
If (or when) you decide to go the next step, find someone to talk to again. Go back to the forums and find people who have done conversions and turbo charging etc... Ask people who know what they are talking about then find some more and talk to them too.

As I said earlier, the above is my opinion only, and others may disagree with me.
 

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