Okay, how do we get PD's attention about the AI?

[Zardoz]

Slam dunk: The graphics, tracks, multi-car race fields, car list, background activity, photo mode, B-Spec, and general scope of GT5 will be mind-boggling. Great.

But will Kaz and company blow the Artificial Intelligence component once again? Has their problem always been one of priorities? Do they actually think the quality of the AI is unimportant, and all we players care about is eye-candy? Does Kaz simply not care about the basic quality of the racing in his games?

Is there any way of getting through to them that they must make real improvements in the behavior of our AI competitors this time? Can we as a player community somehow communicate that to them?

Any thoughts or suggestions on how we can do that? Or would we just be wasting our time?

 

[kikie]

PD has got " a spy" or more than 1, reading this forum . Don't worry, he knows!!! KY will get it right this time, he has to or a lot of people will be very angry. GT5 won't be released the next 10 years, so time enough for PD to get it like it should have been years ago!!

 

[G.T]

PD has got " a spy" or more than 1, reading this forum . Don't worry, he knows!!! KY will get it right this time, he has to or a lot of people will be very angry. GT5 won't be released the next 10 years, so time enough for PD to get it like it should have been years ago!!

True, but people were raving on about the AI being improved for GT4 and that really never happened.

I agree that GT5 should have better AI otherwise people will be angry. The PS3 has 20+ times computing power than the PS2 so there should be no problem.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I think we should paint ourselves green and put glow sticks round our necks and jump up and down outside PDs main office.

That should get their attention.

 

[Zardoz]

I think we should paint ourselves green and put glow sticks round our necks and jump up and down outside PD's main office.

We laugh, but this may be what it will take.

 

[maggkrabar]

exactly!
or may be they need

 

[F1GTR]

Lol at ExigeExcel

 

[Impreza04]

lol, Im in who else

 

[DuckRacer]

I think we should paint ourselves green and put glow sticks round our necks and jump up and down outside PDs main office.

That should get their attention.

 

[civicgsir]

The PS3 has 20+ times computing power than the PS2 so there should be no problem.

I read it was 35x the power of the PS2 & 2x the power of the XBox 360.
I was reading in the specs to my computer buddy & the when i mentioned that the GPU has 1.8 TFLOPS floating point Performance he was like "that is badass".
i am not totally sure what Tflops are, but when i mentioned them to him about the multi-million dollar computer that Sauber F1 had built for their wind tunnel, he said the same thing.

back on topic....there has to be something PD can do about the AI, i mean come on. They have to know it is bad. i think with the 50gigs of space the Blu_ray disc allow for, they could put something seriously kickass for AI in the game.

 

[Dave A]

I love the way Sony waited for Microsoft to come out with "heres the X-Box 360, and heres how good it is", then almost straight after, Sony comes in and says "heres the PS3, look how much better than the X-Box 360 it is".
Kaz knows tha AI is bad, he's admitted it before, so making him aware that it's bad isn't a problem, it's getting him to actually do something about it and make it good.

 

[Famine]

I read it was 35x the power of the PS2 & 2x the power of the XBox 360.
I was reading in the specs to my computer buddy & the when i mentioned that the GPU has 1.8 TFLOPS floating point Performance he was like "that is badass".
i am not totally sure what Tflops are, but when i mentioned them to him about the multi-million dollar computer that Sauber F1 had built for their wind tunnel, he said the same thing.

back on topic....there has to be something PD can do about the AI, i mean come on. They have to know it is bad. i think with the 50gigs of space the Blu_ray disc allow for, they could put something seriously kickass for AI in the game.

It's been put at 2.5 Teraflops. A "flop" is a "Floating point operation". "Tera" means 1,000,000,000,000. So that's 2,500,000,000,000 floating point operations per second.

Don't ask what a floating point operation actually is. Suffice to say it's a standard mark of processor performance, and 2.5 Teraflops per second for a games console is "Gosh" good. The XBox 360's 1 Teraflop per second isn't exactly shoddy - the PS2 managed 7 gigaflops (that's 350 times less) and the XBox only 3.6 Gigaflops...

What the PS3 SHOULD make up ground on is the graphics processing. Before, the XBox had an nVidia graphics set and could render graphics 1.5 times quicker than the custom Sony one in the PS2. Now the PS3 has an nVidia graphics set...

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

I love the way Sony waited for Microsoft to come out with "heres the X-Box 360, and heres how good it is", then almost straight after, Sony comes in and says "heres the PS3, look how much better than the X-Box 360 it is".
Kaz knows tha AI is bad, he's admitted it before, so making him aware that it's bad isn't a problem, it's getting him to actually do something about it and make it good.

Not the first time, either. Once upon a time, long long ago, in the aincent year of 1994, Sega appeared at E3, and said, here is the Saturn, look how good, and behold the price of $500. And Sony came, and said, here is the PlayStation, look at how it smites the Saturn, and see that it is only $300. And Sega was vanquished. And the people rejoyced.

 

[Blackbird.]

The PS3 has 20+ times computing power than the PS2 so there should be no problem.

This may sound dumb but what the hell does computing power have to do with the intelligence of the AI?

 

[Solid Lifters]

This may sound dumb but what the hell does computing power have to do with the intelligence of the AI?

It means they finally have enough "room" to make the AI better. The AI takes up a lot of processing power. Remember, it's times whatever the amount of AI cars. In the case of VGT, it's 16 to 22 for regular courses, and 6 to 8 for Rally courses.

PD, increase the performance of the AI!

That should be good enough.

 

[un_peacekeeper]

maybe we should have some rally races with point to point racing...and racing against TIME!

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

I think we should paint ourselves green and put glow sticks round our necks and jump up and down outside PDs main office.

That should get their attention.

SWEET! I'll use any excuse to get naked and wear glow sticks, not to mention a huge smile. lol

Sign me up for it if anyone actually does it. 👍

 

[Solid Lifters]

SWEET! I'll use any excuse to get naked and wear glow sticks, not to mention a huge smile. lol

Sign me up for it if anyone actually does it. 👍

If anybody shows me proof they did it, I'll send them five dollars.

 

[FWA2500]

if you watched the video, lokk and see, the AI are not on the same lines and acually make attempts to pass/block/avoid being rammed......and dont drive in dead strait lines.....im thinking they already have new AI in the works.....now, about that damn damage model...lol, im sick of the cars bouncing off each other, i want a realistic damage model so that it forces you to drive right and not ram the opponents off the road to win....and i mean damage like if you T-bone a wall the nose will crunch and depending on your terminal velocity possible snap your axel and effectivly make you a DNF....THAT would be the REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR, were you must drive like it was real or pay the price of a lost race due to an accedent or so - especially with the F1 cars.....hit the wall too hard on the front wheel and the braces snap and you are then effectively a 3 wheel vehical....

real life examples of what i would like to see in GT5:

yes, i think you should be able to roll your car...i have yet to se anyone succesfully do that in any GT game....

some of the damage that the F1 cars should get in GT5:
http://people.freenet.de/f1network/video09.mpg
http://people.freenet.de/f1network/video20.mpg

 

[the-god-of-gt4]

if you watched the video, lokk and see, the AI are not on the same lines and acually make attempts to pass/block/avoid being rammed......and dont drive in dead strait lines.....im thinking they already have new AI in the works.....now, about that damn damage model...lol

yes, I noticed that too, also did you see at the begining of the video how one of the cars in the back, think it was the orange supra looses control and goes of the road

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

If anybody shows me proof they did it, I'll send them five dollars.

I have a picture of me from when I ran down the street wearing nothing but tiger slippers and a smile, does that count? lol

 

[Solid Lifters]

I have a picture of me from when I ran down the street wearing nothing but tiger slippers and a smile, does that count? lol

If you showed that to me, you would owe me five dollars.

 

[G.T]

I think we should paint ourselves green and put glow sticks round our necks and jump up and down outside PDs main office.

That should get their attention.

Great idea.

SWEET! I'll use any excuse to get naked and wear glow sticks, not to mention a huge smile. lol

Sign me up for it if anyone actually does it.

No. We should get sexy Japanese girls jumping up and down naked outside PD's office. That'll get their attention.

 

[alba]

I love the way Sony waited for Microsoft to come out with "heres the X-Box 360, and heres how good it is", then almost straight after, Sony comes in and says "heres the PS3, look how much better than the X-Box 360 it is".

so true, MS got owned there

 

[rk]

No. We should get sexy Japanese girls jumping up and down naked outside PD's office. That'll get their attention.

More like innocent honkey schoolgirls in thier scanty Catholic school skirts and white blouses...
Seriously, If you want to get good AI's you have to change Kazunori's philosophy and I am not being cryptic here. His games so clearly say: "Isn't a wonder to actually own and drive the Toyota 7, or the Auto Union V-16, sure, run it up to top end, zip it around The 'Ring, but if any of us, and I am not talking about VAG or Dome, us normal people, actually owned one or some of these cars, would we REALLY enter our Pescarolo in Le Mans?"
I think Kazunori Yamauchi is someone who has seem both sides of a race car windshield. I think when he found himself on the starting grid, watching those lights count down, he had a chance to think back, and wonder where did it all go. Somewhere in the turboes, the racing schools and rules, the angles and cambers and alloys and composites, somewhere along the way the joy of driving turned into the nail biting anxiety of competition. It's not so much whether you will die gloriously, as it is whether you will be made the laughing stock of the pits because of your effort to return ratio.
So, to get him to provide an AI of even the quality in TOCA (for PSX) you would have to convince him that racing definately represents the ultimate refinement of the art of driving.
If we accept the fact that the joy of going swiflty down a twisty lane pleases the sub-cortical desire to apply the tools of ones enviroment to roam it freely, then it should be an easy extension to understand that the application of this ability in competition furthers excellence and satiates the desire to excel in the hunt (for the gold).

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

If you showed that to me, you would owe me five dollars.

BAH! NO! This site is just like all the other sites and my family reunion! No one ever lets me show off the pictures of me streaking!

But back to the AI issue. How was TOCA's AI better than GT4's? From what I played of TOCA, I noticed no huge differences, little ones here and there, but none overly huge.

 

[rk]

But back to the AI issue. How was TOCA's AI better than GT4's? From what I played of TOCA, I noticed no huge differences, little ones here and there, but none overly huge.

Mostly, and this was a huge most for me, they were quite civil until you actually jostled one, then he, and only he, would go after you with a vengance. After a while he would mellow out. Also, the Honda seemed to have a different response than say the Vauxhall, bit this is conjeture, what is important is that they seemed to have a rudimentary personality. I used to love to trap one of them against a wall and watch it squirm like a fly under a microscope...
The GT4 thing is like computer cars vs the biological in an all out survival war to get one, or all, of them over the finish first. Whether they are capable or not is the only challenge.
BTW, I think that rear ramming thing is intentional, I have seen them sverve off the good line to try and hit me, sometimes fail and go off the track.

 

[Zardoz]

...somewhere along the way the joy of driving turned into the nail biting anxiety of competition. It's not so much whether you will die gloriously, as it is whether you will be made the laughing stock of the pits because of your effort to return ratio...

Its as if he thinks we're all really afraid of losing, even in a single-player console game. Of course, there are those who actually turn off the PS/2 every time they lose, just so they can complete the game with a 100% win ratio, so some of his customer base really is like that.

His marketing people probably insist that the game be dumbed-down. They probably have all kinds of proof that the way to highest profits is by aiming low and going for that lowest common denominator.

 

[kikie]

Didn't KY said in an interview last year, that he is going to make the AI human like with real human decisions and mistakes. Look what he did with the "drivers" in the convertibles (movements and looks). The PS2 is way to powerless to get all the feature he and we want, especially the AI and damage (which he said is going to be in GT5, or whatever it is going to be called), real time, calculated damage, not preprogrammed dents like in other games. 💡

 

[rk]

I think that true racers are a dying breed. It is reasonable to postulate that the culture of Asia with its population base and crowded cities represents the shape of things to come. Is it any wonder that the fewer assosciations an Asian country has with the west, the less it's involvement in international racing? I think Kazunori Yamauchi, with his obvious affection for the GT40 and early muscle cars, considers himself the envoy, the light of the misguided but salvagable Yankee automotive enthusiasts. If he could just get them to stop driving from their crotches, they would be awakened to the pure thrill of fluid motion (somebody should trademark that).
Having completed over 98% of the game, I have long ago consigned myself to meticulously setting cars then pitting them against "the pack", finding no suitable organic challenge. My win ratio is deplorably low since I enter the same race repeatedly to test adjustments. If Kazunori has a more exciting alternative up his sleeve, I might be up for giving it a try.
Meanwhile, back to that final Suzuka Formula GT that keeps me from 100% and the black F1...