One for the moderators (and general public)

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This has to be one of the most childish threads I've seen for a while. Two grown up guys fighting because of something happened on screen and their egos couldn't take it? And as icing on the cake, spread the drama on the internet? Really clever. Now excuse me, I'll go and get some popcorn, this will get even more amusing soon, I think. :lol:
 
kart racer
Here is my 2 bits.As a race offical in the ASN,FIA,and IKF I hope I can put some light on this.
On the opening lap,when it is a standing start,ALL paved surface is deemed to be legal race surface to avoid contact from/to another driver.After the start,all bounderies apply.From what I saw,you had the jump at the start and moved over to avoid rear endding him,once yougot pass you moved back onto the main surface.Looks like he tried a late brake move but you were clearly in front of him heading into thr first turn.From the stills,it looks like he turned into you drivers door and that is why he got the ghost.So in my eyes,this is a legit move.
Yes,things are different in a real race as your veiw around you is better but you can set up your wheel/ds3 to have a side view button that you can press for a split second to see beside you.( I do this all the time)Now I must also state that I cannot make out the other drivers name and this is fine with me because as a offical,you look at the drivers as a number,not a name or a face.Hope this helps.:)
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From what i gathered both from the pictures & Benannt/RPM_crx, this move didnt happen at the start though. It happened on the last lap of the race.
 
kart racer
Here is my 2 bits.As a race offical in the ASN,FIA,and IKF I hope I can put some light on this.
On the opening lap,when it is a standing start,ALL paved surface is deemed to be legal race surface to avoid contact from/to another driver.After the start,all bounderies apply.From what I saw,you had the jump at the start and moved over to avoid rear endding him,once yougot pass you moved back onto the main surface.Looks like he tried a late brake move but you were clearly in front of him heading into thr first turn.From the stills,it looks like he turned into you drivers door and that is why he got the ghost.So in my eyes,this is a legit move.
Yes,things are different in a real race as your veiw around you is better but you can set up your wheel/ds3 to have a side view button that you can press for a split second to see beside you.( I do this all the time)Now I must also state that I cannot make out the other drivers name and this is fine with me because as a offical,you look at the drivers as a number,not a name or a face.Hope this helps.:)
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The other driver is me, incase you didn't gather that from the thread discussion. This incident happened on the 5th and final lap, not first which I think we both understand has different guidelines as to what track surface is.

I do use my left/right views but again when entering a corner with a split second it is very disorienting to switch those views and often one doesn't have time. I have the arrow keys setup on my wheel to do it but often, like it this case, there is hardly time to reach for them let alone get over the view change fast enough visually to make the corner.

I have a few questions for you, as a real race official/moderator.

1). What does the yellow line on the track signify? Like as you see in the stills on Suzuka?

2). What is the rule for use of the pitlane exit as track space? In this case, at suzuka, outside of the yellow line and a pit exit for that matter?

3). What defines a driver "having" the corner? Is it how much car was ahead? Who had the correct or initial line?

4). What is the rule, or action for a deliberate dive bomb move made by a driver. I'm not saying this i what GTP_rpm did to me but due to his entry into the corner he had to enter with way more speed that he could have realistically had and hold his "line" (very late apex in this case.

5). Where does an official draw the line in what is a racing incident and what is deemed an illegal move? I know it's a case by case judgement but there must be a rule of thumb
 
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If this were some sort of event where it was known to all participants that crossing a white line on the track is out of bounds, then it's worthy of an out of bounds penalty. But, it's not.

This is a wide open, anything goes public race. Where there is no way to lay down ground rules and then dish out penalties if someone passes some place you deem illegal in your fantasy rules.

The only rules that mean a hill of beans right now are the rules that PD has in place and those rules are enforced by an automated system, which is far from perfect. For the most part, the system is sufficient.

Don't expect Joe Blow to follow YOUR rules.

Is what he has done worth reporting to Sony for abuse? No. So don't waste any more emotion on it.
 
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davethestalker
Is what he has done worth reporting to Sony for abuse? No. So don't waste any more emotion on it.
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No. But both of us race for different boards as tagged racers. Therefore we have a code of conduct and responsibility to our respective communities to be fair and clean drivers (in this case both communities share man of the same members and thoughts on clean racing and often meet on he track). Thus it is being discussed. It's part of racing with a tag. if this sorta thing seem irrelevant to you and no big deal then why use a team/board tag. Just go out and race however you want with no care for anyone else. That is your right. But by racing with a team/board tag you gie up that "anything goes" right.
 
This will be "over discussed". That's the problem. Why discuss it so much? You will get emotional and others will get emotionally charged as well.

Are penalties going to be dished out? No.

What resolution do you want? Do you want him to be "grounded" for a day? Send him a PM and maybe he'll bite.

This, as with many other things, will become a "mountains out of mole hills" discussion.

That's all.


Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying. The mood I'm in right now, this sort of thing is not worth investing the emotion, because there will be no resolution to it.
 
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davethestalker
This will be "over discussed". That's the problem. Why discuss it so much? You will get emotional and others will get emotionally charged as well.

Are penalties going to be dished out? No.

What resolution do you want? Do you want him to be "grounded" for a day? Send him a PM and maybe he'll bite.

This, as with many other things, will become a "mountains out of mole hills" discussion.

That's all.
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In the specific issue of the race incident that started this discussion and per the video stills I admitted my judgement of his pass was wrong. I was wrong, he was right. I admit full blame and from now on I will drive a different line to defend the corner so this issue doesn't pop up. Though oddly (or ironically) in the few hundred races I've raced in in the past few weeks GTP+rpm is the only driver who has attempted to pass me in this way in that place, for both tagged and untagged drivers. I admitted that in the first post I made in this thread. He has two wheels on the racing surfaces and as much as I hate it I have to admit it was clean in that sense because I'm using defined OLR rules for what is in and out of the track. I still think it is a dirty move and unsporting but I can do nothing about it.

But, I'm trying to frame this in a larger discussion. One which no one seems to want to have or actually participate in yet everyone complains about punters.

What I want is a community conscenses of what "clean and fair" racing means in online racing in GT5p and eventually GT5 just like we have for OLR hotlapping. This won't happen over night but the only way we will get there is to discuss it, just like way back when the OLR hotlapping rules were discussed over and over and over until they were eventually defined. Now is the time to define these as GT5p is a fairly small demo...far smaller than GT5 will be whenever that comes out. Because I've been such a pain about issue repeatedly I have been contacted by various moderators and people trying to define these rules. I know people are trying to do them, and it is no small task at all, and I applaud that.
 
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Excellent.. who could have thought that a game could produce so much emotion...."This is Living!"
 
You are making a great case that does need to be addressed. The question is whether or not PD will incorporate penalties for violating these real world rules. I hope so, at least for the PRO races. It would cheeze a lot of people off, sure. But, it would also intensify the racing as it comes another step closer to realism. Personally, I don't think it would be hard for them to code in an infraction for cases where a driver gets all 4 wheels below that line.

Same goes for Daytona. In NASCAR, you CANNOT pass below the yellow. I would really like to see that rule enforced for our version of the big D. Just enough of a penalty that would cause the person passing to give back the spot gained. You can't even get 2 wheels over the line to make a pass without having to give it back.
 
davethestalker
You are making a great case that does need to be addressed. The question is whether or not PD will incorporate penalties for violating these real world rules. I hope so, at least for the PRO races. It would cheeze a lot of people off, sure. But, it would also intensify the racing as it comes another step closer to realism. Personally, I don't think it would be hard for them to code in an infraction for cases where a driver gets all 4 wheels below that line.

Same goes for Daytona. In NASCAR, you CANNOT pass below the yellow. I would really like to see that rule enforced for our version of the big D. Just enough of a penalty that would cause the person passing to give back the spot gained. You can't even get 2 wheels over the line to make a pass without having to give it back.
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PD will do whatever PD wants to do with the game. They always have and always will. They have rarely, if ever, asked the GT community for any real input. It does seem them do check the GT community boards and have in whatever way heard and seen how their in game penalty system doesn't work and have been making changes.

I'm talking about the OLR community defining and adding too standing OLR hotlapping rule to encompass realtime online racing. These are rules the GT community and OLR scene (which existed a long time before GT5p) defined on their own and enforced to make competition possible. They had nothing to do with PD. I' talking about things like "2 wheels on the track at all times, no shortcutting, no hybriding, etc...). I am aware it is very early days for GT5p and realtime online racing in this GT community (the whole community, not just GTP) (but old LAN evnts had rules for on track race manners, though those were easy to define and police given how LAN racing worked) but jut like the original OLR rules were discussed over and over in all the GT boards these rules need to be discussed.

Again. If we are going to have team tags and want to race each other cleaner and fairer than general racing in GT5p we need to agree to and define the above. if not, what is the point of having team tags? Vanity?
 
I would have done the same thing as the original poster...but i would have done it in an F40...much more class :D
 
did I miss something here ??? or am I the only one who "plays" gt5;P. thats just a game, no needs to tell us why you did that and not this, we dont car :P, so until next time, lets just play and have fun :D
 
All I will say is that I think its a unfair overtake. You should have waited or gone too left..

I also often defend my line by going right on straight and dont expect that someone squized on the right..(certanly not a "clean" driver)
 
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If I where you, RPM, I would have waited aswell, cause from what I see on the pictures ( being the angle of your car on pic's 12 and 13), you stayed on the brakes while going on the grass on the inside off the corner. That caused you to go over to the left a bit and eventually push the other guy off.

I do agree that you didn't get that much room on the inside, but at the end of it, you did push him off by your own mistake, so you should have waited. (or at least that's what I would have done)

PS: Why is pic 14 the same as pic 15 and pic 16 same as pic 13? Quite confusing.
 
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Leonidae
This has to be one of the most childish threads I've seen for a while. Two grown up guys fighting because of something happened on screen and their egos couldn't take it? And as icing on the cake, spread the drama on the internet? Really clever. Now excuse me, I'll go and get some popcorn, this will get even more amusing soon, I think. :lol:
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I nearly fell off my chair laughing out loud when reading this thread. Fighting on the internet over a move somebody made in a game? Buying an expensive camera just to prove your point (over the internet)? Some people take this stuff way too seriously.

Ask yourself the following question: if a game that you're supposed to play for entertainment and relaxation is making you all worked up and stressed out, aren't you doing something wrong?

No offence intended, but I am very serious when I say you guys need to relax more. :)
 
Have to laugh at this thread especially considering how trivial it is.

Looking at the photos, although I would prefer a video, I would just call this a racing incident rather than any deliberate foul play. You can easily tell what is deliberate and what is a racing incident and on a track like Suzuka things like this are bound to happen.

I was saying to my friends the other day that when private rooms becomes available we should make an agreement never to fall out with each other. We know that we are all clean racers and any incidents are likely to be accidental.

I shall reserve judgement of this incident after I have watched the video.

P.S why on earth did you spend £300 on a camcorder and yet play on a SDTV??
 
If this was F1 and the other driver was Massa and you were Bourdais - you would have been penalised.
 
Benannt
Edit 1: Using the pit exit as part of the track in that way (off the "race line") is iffy as well. In F1, if there was a car leaving the pit and you crossed that line in that way you would have been issued a penalty. You know that.
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bicycleshorts
Wrong. See: Massa's overtake on Webber last weekend at Fuji.
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Quoted for relevance.

That said, enough already. If there's a complaint against a GTP_Registry driver, follow the complaints procedure:

Sphinx
All complaints relating to a racing incident must follow this procedure:

1. Contact the driver concerned privately (GTP_PM or PSN_PM)
2. Discuss in a manner that is normally acceptable here at GTP
3. If a complaint cannot be resolved privately then as a last resort contact Sphinx (CLICK HERE)
4. Name PM subject title 'Racing Complaint'
5. Supply Members GTP_Tag
6. Supply Date & time of incident
7. Supply Event type
8. Supply Car driven by driver
9. Supply Details and any other relevant information relating to the incident


All complaints relating to official GTP events should follow the same procedure as above, but the complaint must be sent to the designated Race Steward for any given GTP event.
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If there isn't a complaint against a GTP_Registry driver then there's no reason for any of this.

Now I can't see any complaints against you, and I can't see GTP_Benannt in the Registry. So...
 
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