One of the hardest races in GT2 (v.1.2 NA) Special Events IMO.

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 2' started by j102030, May 19, 2017.

  1. j102030

    j102030

    Messages:
    1
    It has to be the "Historic Cars" on Rome Circuit (A license: 295HP).
    The chance to race against a Ford GT40 on that race is very high so most of the time you are losing to RNG and simply a much faster and better vehicle.
    I think because of bad coding, they also put the chance to race a GT40 from the event's 3rd race onto this 2nd race.

    Only time I've beaten it were if the GT40 didn't show up or I block its path on the straights with a maxed out 295HP [R] Skyline GTR '89.
    Even with the maxed out Skyline that's tuned for amazing handling, it was only one time I've beaten that GT40...

    One win from the Skyline, two from the car simply not showing up, and the countless others were lost because it's too good. :(

    edit:changed font size
     
  2. Harsk100

    Harsk100

    Messages:
    9,573
    Location:
    Portugal
    Well, I also struggled on beating this event, since GT40 is a very quick car and it can be entered as a Opponent when we can't drive it 2nd Race! :grumpy:

    I actually tried with the Datsun 240Z, fully tuned with Racing Super Soft tires and it failed; After that, I went with Lotus Elan S4 Spring '71, fully tuned and with Racing Super Soft tires and I managed to win the 2nd race with a lot of work! :sick:

    But I also experienced the Mid-Engine Race 1 as difficult as well. It took me two tries to get it right, since my first try had failed (I spun out on the final corner, when I was at final lap! :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:).
     
  3. TumeK5

    TumeK5

    Messages:
    223
    Location:
    Finland
    Yep, wonder what they were thinking when they unleashed that beast, exceeding the HP limit.

    But GT2 was a rushed game, go figure...

    When I'll do my GT2 100% playthrough I'll figure out a way to beat GT40, but with a historic.

    One option that comes to mind right now is Lancia Stratos...it can be very quick when tuned. I refuse to use Cobra Coupe as that could be too easy.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  4. submaniac93

    submaniac93

    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    France
    It's an indexing error. The same glitch that caused the Vector M12 LM edition to spawn on the Trial Mountain 295hp endurance. Except this one was never patched. There are a few other instances of this happening.
     
    Michelin Man likes this.
  5. Michelin Man

    Michelin Man

    Messages:
    2,339
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Yea I remember watching a video a while back that explained the whole "cars appearing in races they shouldn't glitch". And it basically said that the code for the cars had moved along one; if that makes sense (probably not, but that's the best way of describing it, so that basically the wrong car would appear in that race.

    E.g. the Vector M12 at Trial Mountain
    The Citroen Xantia in the All-Stars Championship(?)
    And the GT40 at Rome (although that's slightly different I think)

    Basically the cars swapped races, in the case of the Xantia and M12. Was quite interesting to find out how the glitch occurs to be fair.
     
  6. JakeMR2

    JakeMR2

    Messages:
    1,007
    I think we could fix that, thanks to the GT2 VOL Extractor and hex editing. I should look into fixing that issue.
     
  7. TumeK5

    TumeK5

    Messages:
    223
    Location:
    Finland
    Oh, that explains.

    I never got the Vector LM one though, although there's so few times I've done that endurance.
     
  8. Michelin Man

    Michelin Man

    Messages:
    2,339
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Yea the Vector glitch only occurs in in V1.0 (and V1.1 maybe, not sure) of NTSC snd NTSC/J versions of GT2. PAL never had the Vector glitch since all versions on PAL are V1.2. i.e. final edition. What's quite funny is later versions apparently swapped the Vector for the Lotus Motorsport Elise, which is still outclassed :lol:.

    However there are still some irregular car glitch that do appear in PAL that I know of, with one of them being the Jaguar XJ220 road car appearing in the Rome 2 Hours, despite racing against the likes of the R390 GT1, GT-One etc. Though, the standard XJ220 is incorrectly called the XJ220 Race Car, so that may have something to do with it in the code maybe.

    Other known miss-matched cars include:
    -A Standard Viper in the Lagunca Seca 200 miles, against JGTC Cars
    -A TVR Griffith 500 in the Seattle 100miles, against America cars
    -The Taisan JGTC Viper against LM cars in Rome 2 hours

    However, I'm pretty sure none of these occur on the PAL/V1.2 versions of the game. The only other glitch I'm pretty sure I've seen on PAL, is Peugeot 306 F2 Kit car on dirt tyres, in the Tuned NA No.1 Cup, though I can't fully remember.
     
  9. submaniac93

    submaniac93

    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    France
    Oh yeah, I remember the XJ220. However, like you said @Michelin Man the other mismatched are corrected. I distinctly remember the STP Viper on Laguna seca, the Viper on Grand Valley (I've followed that one and forced it to crash many times in the 180° turns :p), and because I don't remember ever seeing a TVR on Seattle, I think it's correctly placed on Apricot Hill.

    And yes, the 306 is present (and very competitive) in the N/A tuned championship. Although someone would have to check with a memory viewer if it uses dirt tires of not.
     
  10. Michelin Man

    Michelin Man

    Messages:
    2,339
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Yea, aside from the XJ220, all the others had been corrected I assumed, although I must admit, I never remember seeing the STP Tasian Viper at Laguna Seca, so I'll be curious to check that out when I get to it :idea:, since I started another play through last summer, and have been coming back to it since.

    Yea, @submaniac93 I thought the 306 was present, as I remember being surprised to see it pop up when I looked at a demo of an N/A race :lol:. Though as you say, you'd have to double check with memory viewer to see if it does actually use dirt tyres, as is assumed it does, especially if it was competitive. Would have been interesting to see what difference dirt tyres had on tarmac as well, grip wise.

    Actually, I wonder if it would be possible to use dirt tyres on a non-dirt track. Although that's assuming it's not been already done via hybrids/modding, given my limited knowledge of hybriding etc.
     
  11. submaniac93

    submaniac93

    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    France
    To be honest i'm not sure. I have forced races on dirt tracks for fun (the GT All Stars are funny to look at on Smokey mountain north). What i've noticed is that Tarmac tires on dirt will not slide as easily, if at all. Driving on the dirt with those tires is just like on asphalt, with more jumps. I don't know about the opposite. Maybe cars slide a little more?
     
  12. Michelin Man

    Michelin Man

    Messages:
    2,339
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That's interesting about Tarmac tyres on dirt, it's almost as if the tyres have been modled so that the car handles in a certain way, irrespective of the surface. I wonder if it'd be the same for dirt tyres of Tarmac? As otherwise, like you say, I'd assume dirt tyres on tarmac would the car slide more and seem like it has less grip.

    :lol: I just have this vision of a Toyota GT-One flying through the air on Smokey Mountain now.

    Speaking of forcing races on dirt tracks, can you just imagine what it'd be like if you forced the Turbo Championship race of the Test course on a dirt track. As in that race the HKS 180SX drag car can appear, so just imagine what that'd be like on a dirt track like Smokey :lol:, or even Pikes Peak Downhill....
     
  13. submaniac93

    submaniac93

    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    France
    Yeah the GT-One and the R390 are very accident prone, mainly due to their super hard suspension setup.
    I've tried. And it's to be expected, but the 180SX sucks xD It doesn't turn enough. However, it's quite stable in the jumps due to it being understeering like crazy. The Evo V Mine's though.... still a beast obviously.
     
    Michelin Man likes this.
  14. CVPI93

    CVPI93 Premium

    Messages:
    6,574
    Location:
    United States
    Are there any videos of these mismatched races (besides the GT40 one).
     
  15. submaniac93

    submaniac93

    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    France
    There a very few with the Vector:


    I'd have to check, but I think I have a v1.2 usa version. If I have the others, I'll try and make some videos about it.
     
  16. tankuroded

    tankuroded

    Messages:
    3,363
    Location:
    Indonesia
    A list of bugged AI entries are listed here. ;)
     
    ShiftingGears likes this.
  17. TumeK5

    TumeK5

    Messages:
    223
    Location:
    Finland
    Never knew the Peugeot 306 Kit Car was mismatched as well. I always thought it was intentional, although a little out of place.
     
    ShiftingGears likes this.
  18. submaniac93

    submaniac93

    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    France
    I always thought it was odd, but cool. And It never bothered me because it's not overpowered, just top of the pack, and it's N/A. It's one index glitch that I'd say is okay :p
     
    TumeK5 likes this.
  19. Michelin Man

    Michelin Man

    Messages:
    2,339
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Yea it's weird with the 306, as it's technical mismatched, but not at the same time, since it technically meets the requirements for the N/A cup. Was just quite funny and bizarre to see it racing with the other cars, as it didn't fit in with the other competitors :lol:.

    That's interesting, didn't know the RUF BTR2 was a mismatched car in the Apricot Hill 200km. I don't fully remember what cars (road car's I'd presume) competed in that event. I don't remember what the HP limit was (remember it being quite high), so I'd guess it either came over that limit, or well under.

    Ahh,:idea: I remember now, reading about the Camaro Z/28 as a a filler car, on the infamous NSTC V1.0 Tahiti Maze event. Though it only occurs when your try to force 3 cars right? Wonder if there is/was a video of that too? (would doubt it sadly).
     
  20. TumeK5

    TumeK5

    Messages:
    223
    Location:
    Finland
    I also kinda wish they would've made more strict requirements like in GT3. Anyone could pick just about any car with matching HP. When I'll do my playthrough I'm gonna use the appropriate cars :p
     
  21. Zero McDol

    Zero McDol

    Messages:
    85
    I've been looking for that car to spawn, my 86 wants a piece of it lol :D. No luck as of yet, but if it's a v1.0/v1.1 glitch, then I'm probably not going to see it.

    Edit: Meant to quote the video.
     
  22. Michelin Man

    Michelin Man

    Messages:
    2,339
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I think it's a pure v1.0 glitch only, as it was rather funnily patches up with a Lotus Motorsport Elise IIRC. I kind of want to experience it for myself too :lol:, mind I do plan on getting the both of the NTSC and NTSC/J copies of GT2 at some point (and eventually will start hunting for the demos too).
     
  23. SiriusR

    SiriusR

    Messages:
    478
    I don't think that GT40 could be an accidental mismatch, as it's only 10hp above the limit (and, IIRC, the game also allows you to go a bit above the limit (~+5hp) as well). But then, the player isn't allowed to participate in a GT40 in this event. That certainly should've jacked the difficulty (aka required license) up to IA rather than A.
     
  24. submaniac93

    submaniac93

    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    France
    No i don't know where that came from but GT2 never allowed over the written limit. Ever. It's a simple comparison where if player carns hp is over the limit then deny entry.
    Apart from that, accidental or not, compared to the opposition and rhe tendency of GT2 ai to use very underpowered cars for races, the GT40 is too OP.
     
  25. SiriusR

    SiriusR

    Messages:
    478
    The trick was: tune the car so its HP is over the limit by a very narrow margin, replace some of its hp-affecting parts to lower spec one (like normal muffler or normal ECU), enter the race and put it on again.
    I recall trying that trick out and it seemed to work, but now I don't remember what car I can use to try that trick again.

    Really?
     
  26. submaniac93

    submaniac93

    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    France
    HP in the settings menu is always higher than hp in the garage, i guess that's why it would seem like this is a trick.
    I don't know if it's made on purpose to reflect horsepower at the crank vs horsepower at the wheels, or if it's simply that they kept the PS power scale instead of translating fully to HP (280ps = 276 hp, see where i'm going?)

    I'll try it someday to see for myself, but i really don't think that actually works. Plus, it's not 5 hp thatns gonna make a difference really...

    As for the underpowered examples:
    GV endurance, 690hp limit, AI uses stock 350-500hp cars.
    Apricot hill endurance, 591hp limit, AI uses stock 290-350hp cars
    Historic car cup 295hp races, AI use ~150hp cars apart from the one GT40.
    Super touring car champ, 493hp limit, AI uses BTCC 300hp cars.
    GT300 championship, 541hp limit, highest HP AI is the Impreza with 490hp, the rest is as low a 358hp (Trueno GT300) with an average of 420hp.

    The AI always uses underpowered vehicles when racing. The only time they're slightly competitive is when racing GT500 or GT1 cars, and yet, these races are not restricted, so you can enter any car over 700hp and manage to win.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  27. TumeK5

    TumeK5

    Messages:
    223
    Location:
    Finland
    On my GT2 100% playthrough stream today I tried to beat the GT40 at Rome with Stratos...I didn't succeed before fitting super softs. I got THIS close without them, maybe possible if I perfected the track and setups, but wanted a quick way out. It's REALLY close, you need to drive really well. But when you put super softs on, goodbye GT40 :D
     
  28. Pupik

    Pupik Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    17,537
    Location:
    United States
    The Xantia can be found in the SSR11 Endurance race. Must have lapped it about 20 times.
     
  29. Liquid

    Liquid Premium

    Messages:
    21,070
    Location:
    Slovakia
    In all honesty, I find the Kei Car races to be genuinely some of the toughest races in the game. They're so frustratingly slow to drive and the races are so monotonous and not even particularly easy.
     
  30. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

    Messages:
    2,721
    Location:
    Australia
    Stratos and Europa will work. The Mini 1275s is doable. If you want to cheat then the EG Civic is very good. In the Grindelwald race there is a Stingray which is above the horsepower limit as well - but luckily it's no GT40.