Online is more than racing

[Samelborp]

I guess Kazunori won't release an online mode until it works flawlessly across all the online components: actual racing, managing best times and competitions, etc.

But what about if GT4 were to include just the bit about sending your best times to an online database and loading ghosts and so on?

What is more difficult, to manage the data traffic between players (one of them acting as a server, so TCP/IP connection quality matters, and is hard to predict) or to mantain the servers to store times and players' data?

(Just guessing about the details behind the drop of online playing...)

Hey Kazunori, you still have time!

 

[Will.c]

I suppose it's more of a "do it all or not at all" situation. creating an online service for a game which has very little use for being online is not realy the sort of thing Kazunori would do, and we know how much of a perfectionist he is.

 

[Hajaz]

from my experience, mainly from xbox live and xlink, is that xbox live doesnt really do much for the actuall games beeing played online. It just gets players in touch with each other, sortof like msn. One of the players still has to host the game. There are very few MS deticated gameservers on live afaik.

Keeping a database with scoreboards, ghosts, downloadable content and stuff like that probably requires more serverspace and bandwidth then settting up games between players does. Especially if everyone uploads their ghost everytime they break their personal record

 

[LegacySTI]

from my experience, mainly from xbox live and xlink, is that xbox live doesnt really do much for the actuall games beeing played online. It just gets players in touch with each other, sortof like msn. One of the players still has to host the game. There are very few MS deticated gameservers on live afaik.

Keeping a database with scoreboards, ghosts, downloadable content and stuff like that probably requires more serverspace and bandwidth then settting up games between players does. Especially if everyone uploads their ghost everytime they break their personal record

That's not true. Xbox Live does not use gamer's xbox to host games. Xbox Live is an API and a big network backbone. When you join a game online, you will be connected to the proper server that hosts your game. When you create a game, you are just asking the server to allocate resources for players.

Everybody is a client on Xbox Live, when someone "hosts" they are only the creator of the game and allows you to make changes, no dependency.

 

[boombexus]

So does anyone really know for sure if GT4 is not going to be "online?"

 

[LegacySTI]

I guess Kazunori won't release an online mode until it works flawlessly across all the online components: actual racing, managing best times and competitions, etc.

But what about if GT4 were to include just the bit about sending your best times to an online database and loading ghosts and so on?

What is more difficult, to manage the data traffic between players (one of them acting as a server, so TCP/IP connection quality matters, and is hard to predict) or to mantain the servers to store times and players' data?

(Just guessing about the details behind the drop of online playing...)

Hey Kazunori, you still have time!

The task to bring GT4 is too monumental.

Consider PD is a small company, not as big as EA they don't have the resources to create and host their own network and build game servers throughout the world.

Which is why Sony needs to step up and develop a game network just like Xbox Live that allows developers to build games that support the network API.

To have players and ghost cars database as well as game matching and trading, is a lot of money and manpower to implement.

This is why Xbox Live is so smart, it does not cost developers a dime to create games that are Online and have everything hosted by Microsoft, this is also the reason why you pay a monthly fee. To get all these online features requires a lot of infrasture, there's nobody online that does it for free.

 

[LoudMusic]

Yeah, I've said all that in previous posts. I don't want to race online - the Internet, no matter how great of a connection you have, sucks balls. You can have a OC12 running directly into your Playstation 2 and it won't make a difference when there is one guy in your race with a crap-ass connection. Forget that!

All I want is online score board databases. GT3Times.com style, but provided by Polyphony Digital, and times entered by the game itself. A viewer in the game, and a webpage for viewing and discussing. That would rock balls. And as far as I know, it would be a first for console gaming to have a counterpart outside of the game.

 

[LegacySTI]

So does anyone really know for sure if GT4 is not going to be "online?"

My guess is when Sony get their act together and creates the Sony Online network then PD will be able to use their network for GT4 Online.

I'd say it'll be cheaper to just translate GT4 to PC and let us gamers host GT4 servers like the Counterstrike servers.

 

[LoudMusic]

Well, technically, that's how it works. Same as XBox Live!. The game network is merely a server that provides a list of game servers. You select one from the list and you're done talking to the game network. From then on out you're only talking to the guy who created a game. It's not like Microsoft has a **** load of servers somewhere hosting all those games.

 

[LegacySTI]

Yeah, I've said all that in previous posts. I don't want to race online - the Internet, no matter how great of a connection you have, sucks balls. You can have a OC12 running directly into your Playstation 2 and it won't make a difference when there is one guy in your race with a crap-ass connection. Forget that!

All I want is online score board databases. GT3Times.com style, but provided by Polyphony Digital, and times entered by the game itself. A viewer in the game, and a webpage for viewing and discussing. That would rock balls. And as far as I know, it would be a first for console gaming to have a counterpart outside of the game.

Sounds like you never raced on Xbox Live before. Because Xbox Live is dedicated hosting, it's not peer-peer gaming.

If one guy has a crappy connection, the server doesn't slow down, neither are the other gamers with good connection.

You should play some Rallisport2, PGR2 and TOCA2 on Xbox and see how much Online racing rocks. It is fluid and rock solid, people with crappy connection just get dropped off.

Nobody that I know on Xbox Live prefers only a score board database, since they've been spoiled by true dedicated game hosting.

 

[LoudMusic]

Seriously? Because when I play Ghost Recon on Live! it's very noticable that someone has a lousy connection. Are all games hosted by dedicated game servers, or is that on a case by case basis?

 

[LoudMusic]

But now that I think about it, MotoGP showed signs of server based hosting. Occationally there would be a rider that just jumped all over the track. How interesting.

 

[LegacySTI]

Seriously? Because when I play Ghost Recon on Live! it's very noticable that someone has a lousy connection. Are all games hosted by dedicated game servers, or is that on a case by case basis?

When you say someone has a lousy connection, do you mean that some games are lousy and some games are great because they are not full of slow connect people?

I think it is more likely the server that you hopped on is lagged. In a dedicated server scenerio, one client should not be able to slow others down, that's impossible unless your connection or the server is lagged.

I've never had any lag, I play on Cable and never had lag, I've seen people who lag get frozen and disconnected but that's it.

 

[Jim X]

Exactly, internet gaming is based on the speed of the host and the speed of the peer. When you have a peer to peer type of game it doesn't bring anyone down, but that person. The host gathers everyones data through his download speed, and sends the information out through his upload speed. As long as you have a host with a good connection the game is fine.

If the server has a good connection both up and downstream then the game should run fine, the only thing that would happen is, certain people with a larger ping number (time it takes to respond) will in fact have a large amount of lag. You can see this in the game by what online gamers call teleporting, the player moves around between different position instantaneously as the info is trying to get caught up with by the HOST.

So what I'm trying to say is you WILL BE ABLE TO TELL WHO IS LAGGING. They will be jumping around on the screen. There is a very easy way to solve it. VOTE THE GUY OFF!!! That's why online games have that feature to remove unwanted people from a room. If you don't want a lagger vote him off! All the other people who pay the money for a good connection can go on about there racing while someone with a GOOD CONNECTION takes his place. SIMPLE!


EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot one thing. If you join a game and everyone is jumping around on the screen, teleporting, and the game is being really laggy, GUESS WHAT? You are the lagger, figure out your settings, troubleshoot your PS2 connection and get it up to par!

 

[kinigitt]

It's not like Microsoft has a **** load of servers somewhere hosting all those games.

actually, they do. That's why people have to subscribe and pay fees; for server upkeep.

 

[SaintKamus]

I suppose it's more of a "do it all or not at all" situation. creating an online service for a game which has very little use for being online is not realy the sort of thing Kazunori would do, and we know how much of a perfectionist he is.

Oh please, if i hear anyone else use that he didn't release online because he's a perfectionist as an excuse i'm gonna go postal. that is NOT an excuse.

 

[Corvette]

I know that most people won't agree with me but with a good AI, you don't need an online mode.

Let's face it: 80% of the people online don't know how to drive and they will ram into your car !! With a good AI, why having an online mode ??

 

[code_kev]

I know that most people won't agree with me but with a good AI, you don't need an online mode.

A question. What's more fun...beating your mate using a fiat panda while he's using an RUF online, or beating the AI in the same way? Racing real people is far more fun, because no matter how good is, it never reaches the unpredictabilty of people. It's also fun taking the piss out of crap players.

 

[kinigitt]

It's also fun taking the piss out of crap players.

That is so true! Taking somebody down a couple rungs after they try to talk trash. Then asking them if you should take a slower car. Priceless.

 

[ALPHA]

A question. What's more fun...beating your mate using a fiat panda while he's using an RUF online, or beating the AI in the same way? Racing real people is far more fun, because no matter how good is, it never reaches the unpredictabilty of people. It's also fun taking the piss out of crap players.

You could do that over LAN, online is just a convenience based option and it doesn't make GT4 good or bad. It's the fact that most people are lazy and can't be bothered going round to their mates house and linking up to him that people say GT4 is nothing without online. GT4 is something it has LAN capabilities, wait until next year for GT4 online, Kazunori hopes it is coming.

 

[kinigitt]

You could do that over LAN, online is just a convenience based option and it doesn't make GT4 good or bad. It's the fact that most people are lazy and can't be bothered going round to their mates house and linking up to him that people say GT4 is nothing without online. GT4 is something it has LAN capabilities, wait until next year for GT4 online, Kazunori hopes it is coming.

the key word is convenience, like you said.

Maybe the person who plays online doesnt have friends that like GT, or that aren't good at it, therefore taking any fun out of it.

Or maybe it's the frustrating process of setting up 3 tvs and 3 ps2's and 3 copies of GT3 with 6 controllers (I don't mind it, some people would. Hell, I've played 16 player LAN halo matches before.)

LAN isn't for everybody, just like online isnt.

 

[LegacySTI]

I know that most people won't agree with me but with a good AI, you don't need an online mode.

Let's face it: 80% of the people online don't know how to drive and they will ram into your car !! With a good AI, why having an online mode ??

That's the same thing with all the Street Fighter and fighting games, no matter how hard they made the AI, people still want to play other people.

No matter how good an AI is, it is "programmed" action. We want the human element of playing against someone who is not programmed to do certain things.

That's why people play online. It's unfair sometimes if an AI is too good or too weak.

GT4 must go online eventually, people who never played online racing will keep saying GT4 does not need to be online.

I don't care if they release GT4 tomorrow without online mode, but they need to have online to extend GT4's longevity.

 

[Cosmic]

Do you want to race online with real people? Huh?
Then...download Live for speed S1 demo and get online and stfu!
Nuff said!

 

[Hajaz]

That's not true. Xbox Live does not use gamer's xbox to host games. Xbox Live is an API and a big network backbone. When you join a game online, you will be connected to the proper server that hosts your game. When you create a game, you are just asking the server to allocate resources for players.

Everybody is a client on Xbox Live, when someone "hosts" they are only the creator of the game and allows you to make changes, no dependency.

i'm sorry but uve got it wrong. Do some research.
I'm not gonna argue over it tho.

 

[Mister9]

With xbox live the host connection does matter. LegacySTi for all the games I've played on live it's easy to tell when the host has a good connection so I agree with Hajaz in the fact that you've got it WRONG.

For those saying that online racing isn't important you are missing out. I know there can be problems getting a good group of guys together to race with, but once you find a good crew it's the best kind of racing around. With live and the friends list it can pretty easy to establish a solid base of whatever kind of opponents you are looking for. If you're into bump and run racing then race with the smash and go crowd. If you're into clean races that require patience and a working knowledge of the brake pedal (you have more than the first turn to win a race) then race with that crowd. If you want to show off your initial D drift skills then play with that crowd. You never have to complain about crappy AI and there will always be someone just as fast if not faster than you.

Yes GT4 will be fun to play offline and the DFP makes it impossible to pass up. That doesn't change the fact that for a lot of folks the addition of online support would have made this game 10x better.

If you don't have high speed internet or your provider sucks in general I suggest you move out the sticks to get a taste of how sweet online racing can be.