Online Physics vs Offline Physics --- Which is better?

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Online Physics vs Offline Physics --- Which is better?


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I don't really prefer one over the other, there's definitely a difference but it only takes a lap or two to get used to the change when you go from offline play to online and vice-versa.
 
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At least in the case of RR cars, the OFFLINE physics is, as you mention in the original post, a bit too easy. However, it is also vastly more like reality. The problem is that under the online physics model the RR cars (especially the Yellowbird and the Alpine 1600s, the BTR etc.) simply do not respond to weight-transfer and throttle-control properly at all. It is very nearly impossible to gently lift the throttle to get the nose down, initiate that very small amount of rear-engine (throttle-off) drift, and then squeeze the pedal back down to settle the rear-end of the car. Go watch videos of how the best drivers drive classic 911s in motorsports. Or go to a PCA autocross or track-day event. The best drivers do what I'm describing, and I can honestly say that I'm very good at it also. I can to the lift-rotate-squeeze-settle thing all day long in real life and all day long in GT5 offline physics. Go online though, and everything in these cars goes to ****. They develop 2 problems which make these cars drive in a unrealistic way. 1) They get absurd quantities of snap-back even under the most mild of slip-angles. 2) The rear of the car will not settle properly when the throttle is squeezed back down.

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Here is a video I made comparing offline and online handling of the Alpine 1600s on Trial Mountain. This is one of the cars with the most severely-altered online/offline personalities, on a track which exhibits this problem severely as well. I'm purposefully exaggerating the amount I'm allowing the car to rotate to demonstrate the problem (video is annotated in my own weird way).

Offline and Online handling of the Alpine 1600s

It seems like you're describing a classic problem with "overloaded" tyres in a sim - where the usage (i.e. applied load) of the tyre extends beyond the data used to produce its grip curves (or whatever is being used), so it's possible the model gets a bit messed up. It would be nice to see if the problem starts to disappear once the fuel load goes down, since there is other evidence to suggest that offline physics don't really account for fuel properly at all. Either way, it's valuable information.

The video is interesting, too, and is indicative of my experience with RR cars online - well, the CTR "Yellowbird" at least, which I'll admit is pretty extreme. I'm tempted to do my own tests now, since I'm convinced that the S2000 is too eager to pull a tank-slapper on you online - I found that odd. Also, the RGT behaves exactly as you describe (lift, drift and go) offline, but I've not tested it online yet.

In addition, it seems that there are other things going on between the types of tyres aside from a general level of grip. For instance, it seems easier to drive on Comfort Softs in the rain than it does on Sports Hards; whilst the Sports tyres clearly have better dry weather grip, they ought indeed to be poor at displacing a lot of water. This could point to other differences that would be beneficial to investigate. One I can think of immediately, is the feel of the threshold of cornering grip - that threshold feels much broader on comfort tyres than it does on sports, sort of like the way the tyre deforms heavily under load, especially the sidewall.

I've never actually used Sports Soft tyres in this game, so I have no basis of comparison, but I wonder what your findings would be for the same cars on comfort tyres (perhaps de-tuning and re-doing the test might help :p)

Another thing to think about is track temperature - I can clearly feel the grip dropping off once the sun has gone down on the Nürburgring online (not tested it offline, don't know how, outside of an endurance race...) I wonder if different tracks have different temperatures online, but this is ignored offline for simplicity's (and consistency, for the driver) sake? Trial Mountain has notoriously been a slippery circuit (and Deep Forest), but I'm not convinced I get that impression anymore in GT5 and I've only driven Trial Mountain online once, in a car I've not driven offline. I must investigate more...
 
OK what i think people should do is 3 tests to see what sort of difference there is.

select a car you know is a little skittish

1. Enter practise mode and time trial around any circuit for 5 laps and record time

2.enter practise mode and do one make race, 5 laps, fuel/tyre depletion on. record best lap.(same circuit as 1)

3. Create online lobby, start 5 lap race on same circuit yourself and record best lap.

Hopefully if my theory is correct, and im not saying it is, your best laps for test 2-3 should be similar and best lap for test one(depending on car) should be better by 3-5 seconds. If this is what happens then it adds weight to those who think the difference is due to tyre/fuel depletion as test 2 will be run in offline conditions.

Off course all test test to be done with same tyres and same setup.

Will try this with 3-4 different cars later and report back my findings
 
This again -

There is a 100 litre tank of fuel in the car when in online practise mode. Depending on the car and where this tank is located in the physics engine, it will have a drastic effect on handling.

Lighter and less powerful cars are going to feel it the most.

In most most cars the fuel tank will be at the rear end side of the car. So you can expect more pendulum effect when a 100 litre tank is installed
 
Never had an online race where the car felt different from offline. Maybe everyones just unknowingly used to aids, that when online in restricted races, the game ***** on them... maybe.
 
OFFLINE physics are much better. Online has a fake force that holds you to the ground and around corners. Offline is more realistic



edit: also everyone online use Racing softs...thats BS
 
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I think online is more accurate of the two. But just like others I wish that it was the same offline as online. The biggest difference that I have noticed from my own time with the game is the fact that in offline tire & fuel wear is off. So depending on tire compound and suspension settings your online experience can very dramatically. I have also noticed that if you do not have a good connection to the host that will also have a huge impact on your car as well. I have noticed this the most in lobbies set to max capacity of 16 players.
 
I prefer the offline physics because you can roll your car but I just want it to be the same physics in every game mode.

An easy way to test this is run the F2007 on Cape Ring with max downforce. On the carousell corner the car will try to spin every time online but in a one-make race it grips the road like the tires are made of glue. Tire wear on in both cases.
 
I don't know if either is better, I just want them to be the same.

Especially with the PSN outage, I shouldn't have to be online to be able to practice reliably for online race series. Also with online lounges would save or have telemetry data available for later review.
 
Anyone who thinks that off-line the cars are "way too grippy" and that the game is "way too easy", needs to put down the crack pipe, and back away from the race slicks - in fact, maybe even from the game itself as they are just too obsessed with gaming the game.

In short - it's not. Pushing things to known ridiculousness doesn't really prove anything because all software can be pushed outside of it's intended bounds. It may well be that PD just didn't do that great a job of reigning in jack-assery like that, but that doesn't say anything about how the modeling is when things are treated properly (well within expected parameter bounds).

Also, anybody can put slicks on a car and blow the field away and turn in good laptimes. Use normal tires and actually drive the car and learn it's quirks. Put comfort softs on a car with no driver aids and learn how to actually drive, rather than just ace a game.

You'll find plenty of challenge then, and not too much grip - guaranteed.


There's a difference. Online tires seem "cold" at start. And the car is definetly more tail happy. I put slicks only on race cars,but i drive road cars 90% of the time. No doubt in my mind there is a difference.
 
I don't know if either is better, I just want them to be the same.

Especially with the PSN outage, I shouldn't have to be online to be able to practice reliably for online race series. Also with online lounges would save or have telemetry data available for later review.



:tup:This.
 
Offline is better, you can roll the car for 1 example.

Online seems to have something turned off to help data transfer, and other things tweaked to cover the whole left in the physics model.

Also I agree, I cant practice for the BTCC thing my team run, because I may as well practice on another game.


Use the right tires, technically only comforts are "road legal".


I personally think that offline has the best physics, and online is just too oversteer inducing.
People just interpret this wrong because they use tires with to much grip and/or set up the car online.
When used online this car may act fine, but when taken to the "better" physics offline, the grip levels are to high and/or the car has been setup to understeer to counter the "online oversteer".
 
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This physics thing has me puzzled, I see a few people have mentioned it is to do with data transfer etc, but that just seems a bit of a cop out to be honest. It would just make more sense, if both were the same, practice offline, then have no surprises online.
 
for the record i accidentaly voted for online.. and meant offline.. any way,,
Awsome Video BTW ;)
And another thing, I can run much faster lap times offline then i can online..
 
When playing online with others, when you are driving behind somebody, your car doesn't accelecrate faster.


Not true.

Offline is better, you can roll the car for 1 example.

Online seems to have something turned off to help data transfer, and other things tweaked to cover the whole left in the physics model.

Also I agree, I cant practice for the BTCC thing my team run, because I may as well practice on another game.


Use the right tires, technically only comforts are "road legal".


I personally think that offline has the best physics, and online is just too oversteer inducing.
People just interpret this wrong because they use tires with to much grip and/or set up the car online.
When used online this car may act fine, but when taken to the "better" physics offline, the grip levels are to high and/or the car has been setup to understeer to counter the "online oversteer".

Semi-slicks (Sport tyres in Gran Turismo) like the Toyo R888 are road legal
modp_1006_01_o+tire_buyers_guide+toyo_proxes_r888.jpg




On topic: I find online physics better (I don't mean more realistic) because you can actually activate tyre wear
 
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Semi-slicks (Sport tyres in Gran Turismo) like the Toyo R888 are road legal
Road legal, but you wouldn't want to drive with them on normal roads.
If you enable realistic grip on wet surfaces/outside the track in practice mode, you can see the difference with confort tires on wet surfaces (on tracks with weather changes)

On topic: I find online physics better (I don't mean more realistic) because you can actually activate tyre wear
Tire and fuel depletion can be activated offline too, if you do single races in practice mode. There, you can run an infinite number of laps and drive as if you were running online. Still, I think that a proper "track day" mode would be better.
 
I think it depends on the cars. Premium cars are more accurate than standards but many use standards because they are faster.
I bet there is a difference here and not just a matter of online or offline.
 
Surely the difference in physics is due to the limitations of online gameplay compared with offline. Like disabling the ability to roll the car over takes away some of the work.
Therefore, the offline physics is probably more accurate and online will be a simpler version. Of course, people may prefer either.

Otherwise, why would PD bother to have different physics at all?

The only other sensible explanation I've read is that it is to do with tyre wear and fuel extra but that only applies on certain a-spec races.

Has there ever been official word from anyone at PD?
 
TonyLomas
Has there ever been official word from anyone at PD?

Difficult to translate, but the word most used officially, was SOON.


Sorry lol.
 

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