Opinions Welcome: Buying A Car

[Liquid]

You couldn't pay me to go near that 406. 150,000 miles in under 10 years...

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

I would just say that the Ka is supposed to be among the cheapest cars to insure for young people. 👍

 

[Famine]

But would I actually buy the 309? God I would love to. Especially if a classic insurer would quote cheaper. That's a hell of a find, Famine!

I'd just require a drive of it

We had a 309 SRi as a kid, my brother had a 205 GTi 1.6, my wife's had a 205 GTi 1.9 and a 309 GTi. Great cars. Would. Epic would.

(though buying sight unseen down the internet from a guy who largely stocks chavwagons is inadvisable )

 

[dhandeh]

You couldn't pay me to go near that 406. 150,000 miles in under 10 years...

I bet the engine is in A1 condition, while the steering wheel, could quite possible by the shiniest thing ever.

 

[Liquid]

I'd just require a drive of it

Well if you were to be picking it up and looking after it, I suppose that's the least I could do...

If it's still for sale at the start of June, I'll give it some more serious thought. In the mean time, I'll keep looking out for any tasty Civics. But, fellow GTPers, do feel free to contribute what you can! Any previous ownership stories would be handy.

 

[Sureboss]

Can I suggest a Fiat Stilo without getting laughed at? You may also find some Skoda Fabia's in there, cheap to insure as well if you don't mind a 1.dull petrol engine that has as much pulling power as a grape.

 

[Liquid]

Stilos have had bad reviews, but I don't mind Fabias.

Anybody ever owned either of the two?

 

[homeforsummer]

Not driven a Fabia but I've never heard of any issues from them.

I bet the engine is in A1 condition, while the steering wheel, could quite possible by the shiniest thing ever.

Peugeot/Citroen diesels go on forever and a day if looked after. An old Pug 205 with the large, under-stressed naturally-aspirated diesel might out-last the universe. Okay, they clatter like two robots having freaky sex but that's the price you pay for over-engineering.

 

[dhandeh]

Can I suggest a Fiat Stilo without getting laughed at?

No.

 

[Christian_C]

If I had two grand spare, just floating about, I'd buy this. I wouldn't even haggle. And I don't mean in your position, I mean I actually would do it.

Same applies as for the Metro, but a lot quicker and better. The 309 was better than the 205 and still only weighed 850kg.

I'd second this, I was behind one a few weeks back with no idea what it was until I got close and saw '309 GTI' on the back. At first I thought it was a joke and someone had just put a GTI badge on the back until I looked it up.

Looked cool, weighs as much as a bean can and the one I was behind even sounded quite nice too 👍

 

[Dennisch]

Something Japanese, or German.

 

[DannyBarisGT]

Japanese seems better to me. Dont go french because they are not good in the reliabilty. They tend to have a lot of flaws. Maybe you can go miata/mx5? It is a fun drive might be able to get one at 2k.

 

[Solo]

I don't mind Fabias.

A friend of mine has just bought one of these as his first car aged 17 1.4 petrol for ~£1600 and its a great car. I'd definitely suggest looking at one, very comfortable and the insurance is cheap. I know several people that own them and everyone thinks they are great 👍

Found this one. The models for your sort of price range seem to have reasonably high milage though, this has slightly lower miles though.

They are insurance group 2 so on the cheaper side

 

[Pagey279]

Don't buy anything french, the age range you will be looking at they will be pretty unreliable (with the exception of the Peugeot 106)
Having said that Clios are okay, appalling interior build quality, and extremely small in the back (I can't even sit up straight in the back seat) But if you find the right one reliability is pretty good and you can pick one up for peanuts.

A corsa is a good place to start, cheap insurance, good reliability. And it's pretty much the same story with a fiesta.
With Corsas and Fiestas it's very hard to go wrong.

Fiats are very low on insurance, but you have to compromise reliability.

As for the ford ka......it's a woeful pile of misery, don't go near them.

A few more tips from personal experience: Put everyone in your household on as a named driver on your policy. I put my parents and my sister on mine and it cut the price by £800.
Stay below a 1.2L engine, you could possibly find a car with a 1.4L that won't be too bad on insurance. But anything above that and you might be looking at forking out a large amount of money.
Look at Admiral multi-car discount, there are massive savings to be found here.

 

[homeforsummer]

The "French and Italian cars are unreliable" thing is a hell of a sweeping generalisation. In simple small cars like those being discussed here, most makes are much of a muchness, and things like trim quality or maintenance costs aside, there's very little difference between most of them.

If you'd like to know comparative reliability of various vehicles in that class I have more than a decade of car magazines with reliability surveys in, so can provide info based on more than just outdated heresay...

And saying the Ka is a "woeful pile of misery" is frankly a load of bollocks.

 

[Pagey279]

Out of the people in my year 2 had Saxos and they have all broken down one way or another, one guys expired in a could of smoke, steam and oil.
Another had a peugeot 306, it was going well untill he had to replace the gearbox.

Of all the people who passed their test one girl got a Ka, and only because it was dirt cheap, no other reason.

I'm going on my personal experiences, that's all. No need to take it to heart

Edit: Also the thread title is "Opinions Welcome: Buying a Car" Opinions being the key word.

 

[homeforsummer]

With the greatest respect, a bunch of teenagers trashing the ass off their cars aren't the best barometer of a car's reliability. The engine design in stuff like Saxos and Clios is well proven, and they're the sort of cars you'll still see going strong, albeit battered and bruised, at the hands of a French farmer in 50 years time. The huge numbers of Renault 4s, 5s, Citroen 2CVs and the like knocking about France are evidence of this.

Likewise supposedly unreliable Fiats in Italy. People treat cars as disposable items in the UK, thrash them, don't maintain them, and then wonder why they break down all the time.

As for the Ka, it's an excellent car. Handles better than pretty much any small car over the last 20 years, has another well-proven engine (Ford Kent, with around 50 years of history for the basic design), it's economical, and hilariously cheap to fix.

And yes, I realise you were dispensing opinions. I'm simply telling you why they're wrong

 

[E28]

No idea about insurance costs on one, but how about an E30? A decent one can be had for pretty cheap, and should be reliable too.

 

[Liquid]

No idea about insurance costs on one, but how about an E30? A decent one can be had for pretty cheap, and should be reliable too.

Pricey. Big engine. Prestigious badge.

If it's going to cost ~£3,500 to insure a 309 GTi, then a Beemer will cost more I'd imagine...

 

[homeforsummer]

I expect it would be more, but a boggo 316 might not be too horrific to insure. Still, more modern stuff with extra security kit should still be cheaper. Unless you were lucky with a classic policy again, that is.

 

[Pagey279]

With the greatest respect, a bunch of teenagers trashing the ass off their cars aren't the best barometer of a car's reliability. The engine design in stuff like Saxos and Clios is well proven, and they're the sort of cars you'll still see going strong, albeit battered and bruised, at the hands of a French farmer in 50 years time. The huge numbers of Renault 4s, 5s, Citroen 2CVs and the like knocking about France are evidence of this.

Likewise supposedly unreliable Fiats in Italy. People treat cars as disposable items in the UK, thrash them, don't maintain them, and then wonder why they break down all the time.

As for the Ka, it's an excellent car. Handles better than pretty much any small car over the last 20 years, has another well-proven engine (Ford Kent, with around 50 years of history for the basic design), it's economical, and hilariously cheap to fix.

And yes, I realise you were dispensing opinions. I'm simply telling you why they're wrong.

I agree that cars are treated as disposable in the UK, and he lives in the UK, not France. So a large majority of small used cars like Saxo's, 106s etc were owned by teenagers at some point, who like you said most likely thrashed them meaning it's very very hard to find one in good condition. Because they weren't owned by French farmers.
So there is a very high chance the ones you do find only have a few more miles left in them. As shown (to some extent) by my experiences.

Which is why sometimes you need to play it safe and get cars with a reputation of reliability.

 

[Christian_C]

There's nothing wrong with something that's been thrashed so long as it's been well maintained, most people my age don't seem to realise that though unfortunately

One of my friends didn't even know how to check his oil and another when I checked his oil for him the dipstick came out totally clean

 

[Doog]

Volvo S60 2.0? £1,350

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201217465764254/original-id/201214461600137/associated-ids/201034366668427%2C201217465764254%2C201218468886940%2C201143424487383%2C201146428782432/usedcars?logcode=a

 

[Liquid]

I'm thinking about this a little too much; I just dreamt that my mum bought me a blue Austin Allegro.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

A corsa is a good place to start, cheap insurance, good reliability. And it's pretty much the same story with a fiesta.
With Corsas and Fiestas it's very hard to go wrong.

Fiats are very low on insurance, but you have to compromise reliability.

As for the ford ka......it's a woeful pile of misery, don't go near them.

Where on earth did you get that from? The Corsa is, from numerous people I know's opinions, terrible and uncomfortable to drive. While our Ka is still running fine after 7 years, and from driving it myself I can tell you it's a very pleasant experience. 👍

Stay away from first gen Clios- they have a heap of known problems. 1 of which was, I'm pretty sure the bonnet catch failing.

 

[Liquid]

Where on earth did you get that from? The Corsa is, from numerous people I know's opinions, terrible and uncomfortable to drive. While our Ka is still running fine after 7 years, and from driving it myself I can tell you it's a very pleasant experience. 👍

Sort of what I thought already, but nice to know I'm not alone.

Stay away from first gen Clios- they have a heap of known problems. 1 of which was, I'm pretty sure the bonnet catch failing.

Clios are alright as long as it's a Clio II facelift minimum. Clio Is have been pretty terrible during my experiences, and my friend's Clio II pre-facelift's exhaust fell off, the windows didn't work, it wouldn't lock and there was something wrong in the engine which caused a constant oil leak! But I passed my test in a facelifted Clio II, my dad used to own one and I don't personally know anyone who has had problems with them.

 

[homeforsummer]

Which is why sometimes you need to play it safe and get cars with a reputation of reliability.

That's fair enough.

However - no one supermini in particular (apart from the Fabia, which always seemed to do well) has a significantly better reputation for reliability than any one other, so tarring all the French or Italian cars with a brush is a little unfair, unless you're prepared to do the same with the others.

Using personal experience is all very well, but there are limitations. Saying that you know one girl who bought a Ka because it's cheap is in no way a suitable grounding to suggest "it's a woeful pile of misery, don't go near them". Particularly as it's mechanically identical to the Ford Fiesta, to which you say "cheap insurance, good reliability...it's very hard to go wrong". It's either one or the other - they're both crap, or they're both good choices.

The moral of this story, particularly given your friends' experiences of exploding Saxos (for the record: not a car I'd choose, but then I knew people back when I was in high school with them and they never had any problems), is that with whatever Liquid buys, he buys on condition and service history rather than mileage and badge.

Stealing Famine's words from another thread:

a car that has run 30,000 miles in first gear at redline for a 2 mile journey every day and badly maintained will be terrible, but a car that has run 300,000 miles driven sympathetically and maintained correctly will be fine. Mileage is just a number and not a very relevant one.

Even the Fabia mentioned could be no good as a used choice if it's been driven flat out everywhere and never topped up with oil (unlikely, but to illustrate my point), but a supposedly unreliable Clio with 250,000 miles on the clock might be fine - and frankly, any supermini that racks up huge mileages and is still on the road was probably put together properly in the first place.

Or to sum up: Whatever car you buy, buy one that has plenty of evidence of being loved, and if you're buying privately, run a mile if the owner is in their teens.

I'd also personally recommend going for a trim level with as little equipment as possible. You don't really need aircon or leccy windows in your first car. Electrical stuff is most likely to go wrong, it's just something else to potentially waste money on.

 

[Liquid]

The moral of this story, particularly given your friends' experiences of exploding Saxos (for the record: not a car I'd choose, but then I knew people back when I was in high school with them and they never had any problems), is that with whatever Liquid buys, he buys on condition and service history rather than mileage and badge.

True. Ergo, Civic. More reliable than most, but of course I'll have to check and see whether the car has been looked after or not.

Or to sum up: Whatever car you buy, buy one that has plenty of evidence of being loved, and if you're buying privately, run a mile if the owner is in their teens.

Sound advice.

I'd also personally recommend going for a trim level with as little equipment as possible. You don't really need aircon or leccy windows in your first car. Electrical stuff is most likely to go wrong, it's just something else to potentially waste money on.

I'm really not expecting much trim wise. I've only ever been in one car in my life which had air con. And as you say, electrics are more likely to go wrong. Window crank handles for the win!

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Sort of what I thought already, but nice to know I'm not alone.



Clios are alright as long as it's a Clio II facelift minimum. Clio Is have been pretty terrible during my experiences, and my friend's Clio II pre-facelift's exhaust fell off, the windows didn't work, it wouldn't lock and there was something wrong in the engine which caused a constant oil leak! But I passed my test in a facelifted Clio II, my dad used to own one and I don't personally know anyone who has had problems with them.

Oops. Sorry, I should have put Phase 1 Clios, not 1st gen.

Yeah I meant the pre facelift ones tend to have a bad reputation for odd things going wrong. 👍

 

[the_stig_1]

What about this? High mileage but is a Cooper (not a one ), and in British Racing Green!