scaff
Yes JPM did set a few poles and wins in his first F1 sesson, now lets look at what he did in his rookie CART season? Oh he won the championship outright.
JPM's problems in NASCAR have nothing at all to do with NASCAR requiring more skill that F1 or CART, but with JPM spending his entire professional racing career before NASCAR in open wheel cars. He raced open-wheel cars almost exclusively from 1992 to mid way through 2006, that's around 14 years. His experience in closed wheel cars (at what I am happy to admit is a high level) is around 1 year.
Do you not think that is a rather significant factor?
To keep trying to imply that NASCAR requires a higher level of skill that almost any other form of racing is simply making you look foolish. It may be your personal preference in choice of motorsport, but does not make it more skilled or automatically better.
I apologize for implying that NASCAR requires a higher level of skill then forms of road racing. That is not what I meant, though.
I am very defensive, because far too often people who probably never seen an entire if any part of a NASCAR race are very quick to desrespect it, because how easy it looks from afar. My family was the same way until they saw the IMAX movie 'NASCAR TO THE MAX'. They had a new appreciation for NASCAR. I recommend the movie.
But in all honesty, I think driving a 1300 LB F1 car with 850 HP around a road course pulling 4gs in some corners is in many ways tougher than driving a 3500LB 850 car around an oval despite the fact NASCARs have no traction control and have the same size tires on the front and back.
But thats from a spectator viewpoint.
The thing that I have against F1, that really bugs me, is that I think F1 is more about the car and engineer then it is about the driver. Sure, in NASCAR top teams like Hendrick, Rousch/Fenway, and Joe Gibbs win almost everything, but the cars are far more equally matched. And more is in the drivers hands. A top NASCAR NEXTEL CUP driver can conserve his tires better then others, and make better adjustments in pitlane to gain an advantage.
In F1 it's all about horsepower and downforce. It wouldnt surprise me if Ferrari had 75-100 more horsepower then some of the lower teams. In NASCAR the top teams may have 15 more horsepower, and the chassis are all almost equal in downforce performance. (very little downforce I should add)
I remember clearly some time ago in Formula 1 when Mika Salo took over Michael Schumacher's car after his injury. Now Salo finished no better than what, 12th his entire career but came very close to winning the German GP at Hockenheim until Ferrari's team boss ordered him to move over and let Eddie Irvine win. (yet another disgrace in F1's past)
I soon became a disgruntled F1 fan. There were too many flaws in the sport. Overtaking became near impossible because cornering speeds were too high and the track designs were awfull. At one point Michael Schumacher won what, 10 races in a row?
It's hard for me to say Michael Schumacher is one of the best drivers in motorsport ever, when he's only raced and won in F1, and he's almost always had the superior car.
Even today, if you don't drive for Mercedes or Ferrari you have basicly 0% chance of winning or even scoring a podium.
Today the only reason why I still watch F1 is because it's F1. The top motorsport in the world. I couldnt call myself a motorsport fan and not watch it. But sadly, I usually just watch the start and come back way later to see who won.
The courses are becoming increasingly bland and its the cars that win the races, not the drivers.
IMO NASCAR's 2 roadraces are far more entertaining then F1's best road races of the year. The cars are heavier so the corner speeds are lower and its easier to outbrake people so it's not rare to see half a dozen passes a lap, and contact doesn't mean DNF. I tell you if F1 didn't have those awesome standing starts I think I would have lost more interst then I already have...
Now NASCAR has it's fair share of problems. From too many caution flags to not enforcing the rule book consistantly.
F1 and NASCAR, or on a greater scale, road racing and ovals are totally different beasts. Each require a different set of great skills to be the top driver. Each have low points and high points. I enjoy the technology and glamour of F1. I enjoy the close racing and strategy it takes to win in NASCAR.
At the moment if I had to pick between watching the Sunday NASCAR race at Bristol Motorspeedway or the German GP, it would be NASCAR, easily. The NASCAR races are far less predictable and strategy plays a huge role in the outcome of the race. It's a totally different story in F1.
But now I'm soundling like I'm bashing F1...I like it, I really do. I like NASCAR too, but F1 is boring to me as NASCAR is boring to you. But I do have massive repsect for the drivers of an F1 car. Again, 850HP connected to a 1300LB car must take incredible driving skill and physical ability. I respect F1.
Roo
Admittedly I know next to nothing about NASCAR, but I do know that JPM won his 7th NASCAR race at Mexico City in the Busch series race. And he's top rookie in the Nextel Cup. And it's not even half way through the season. He didn't score his first pole until 2 thirds of the way through his first F1 season, and won the 15th (of 17) race - his 5th finish at that stage that season.
NASCAR (by which I mean oval racing) takes great skill. F1 (by which I mean circuit, or "road" racing) takes great skill. But they are completely different skills. The quicker you work that out, the less of a complete NASCAR fanboy you'll look.
Juan Montoya won at Mexico city in the Busch series. That's a feeder series to NASCAR. I'm sure Montoya can win in any feeder series, not to mention the fact that 75% of the guys he was racing against in the Busch series probably never seen a road course before. (Totally different story in NASCAR NEXTEL CUP) There was only 2 regular NEXTEL CUP drivers in the race. And he had to spin out Scott Pruett to win. And I dont remember Scott Pruett finishing in the top 10 at a road course in NASCAR's top series NEXTEL CUP in some time.
But I have no doubt he will do well on the Nexte Cup Road Courses. Most likely he will qualify and finish top 5 but that's because that's all he's done all his life. The NASCAR drivers have raced ovals all their life and that's why they're beating him on ovals.
As I mentioned earlier I'm not saying it takes more skill to race NASCAR then it does F1. All I'm saying is that it takes skill, a great amount of skill at the NASCAR level. I'm saying Montoya is an extremely talented driver, but for the first time in a decade he is struggling to be competitive. That should say something about NASCAR and oval racing in general.
But despite the level-headed debaters in here(scaff,dukeetc) there's always a
KAMKA-Z.
Somehow these people just don't get it. Sure, Jeff Gordon wasted his time winning 4 Championships and collecting 80 wins. If he went openwheel at the beginning of his career he probably would have made F1 and been 100x the driver Scott Speed who? is.
But as for Robby Gordon, if you watched CART you would know that guy was a mid packer there as well. He's not a great talent. That's why he lost his RCR NASCAR ride
One last thought, I think alot of people consider NASCAR boring because the cars are not that intersting to watch driving by themselves on an oval compared to a road race car accelerating and braking from greatly varying speeds around a track with scenery etc. I agree watching a NASCAR run laps by itself on an oval isn't as excting as watching a car run laps by itself on a road circuit.
But once you've came to the understanding that NASCAR is about strategy and close racing, you will appreciate the sport for it's strengths, not weaknesses.
Now excuse me, I´m going to eat an apple and an orange to actually see if they have any similarities in skill...
. the technique and mentality required to survive a race and finnish 1st is slightly different. For example, on normal road courses you'll defend and try and keep people from passing 99% of the time. On the oval, being too defensive usually slows you down quite a bit especially on superspeedways or on tracks that dont require any braking. then there's the freaky raceline differences created by camber and road grip changes. Tire wear issues from which raceline you choose etc... and if you dont find a good draft partner, you can get owned hardcore. pileups are pretty easy to cause because of the speed. 
I remembered about the rule change and when you mention "lotus" I was like"man, how could I forget about that?"
It was a just a post where I thought I tried to put my two cents in ,when someone pretty much already said what I wanted to say......
