Over de-tuning

  • Thread starter Thread starter Skeletor27
  • 47 comments
  • 3,669 views
I will do excessive detuning, but only on cars that have already been tuned. That way I never detune to below stock levels. except for on the stock z4 30i which I detuned to match my own 25i.
 
I use the 90% rule in that I never de-tune a car past 90% unless it's absolutely necessary.
 
johnnutz
It's my understanding that overuse of the power limiter will often put one at a disadvantage. The limiter reduces hp more than it reduces torque creating an 'unnatural' torque power curve. This sounds good but because torque is a factor in calculating pp you are essentially sacrificing hp for torque. On tracks where acceleration is key (think tsukuba or eiffel) this might be okay but more often than not having greater hp is preferred. The best way to tune for power is to 'tune up' your car by adding parts then if necessary reducing power by a percentage point or two using the limiter.
Click to expand...

That would be inaccurate sir. Torque is far more important as it is the componet that puts the vehicle in motion. Sacrificing horsepower for torque is ideal and gives the de-tuned driver the "unfair advantage". Torque wins races, horsepower sells cars.
 
Simple way around all of this: min weight + power instead of PP

Btw: I detune quite heavily sometimes, for example when I have engine tuning stage 3 which can't be removed.
 
I think it should stay in place but would make more sense to me if a car cannot be de-tuned lower than it's factory pp setting.
 
Bogey
I think it should stay in place but would make more sense to me if a car cannot be de-tuned lower than it's factory pp setting.
Click to expand...

That's a great, simplistic idea:tup:
 
XXI
That would be inaccurate sir. Torque is far more important as it is the componet that puts the vehicle in motion. Sacrificing horsepower for torque is ideal and gives the de-tuned driver the "unfair advantage". Torque wins races, horsepower sells cars.
Click to expand...

Take the same car, 1 with power limiter for more torque at a given PP and tune the 2nd to have more hp but less torque, take them to SPA and hot lap!

HP will beat torque!
 
The torque vs. HP battle could go either way. Adjusting for high torque with low HP changes the power band or curve, it's a matter of adjusting gear ratios and shift points. Either way can be faster with the proper setup, but the point of the thread is the fact that using the high torque setup lowers the PP rating which gives an unfair advantage.
 
I think you should only be allowed to detune the engine back to stock level HP and not below (IE add a turbo for an extra 50HP then only allow a detune of the engine by 50HP).
Then it wouldn't be such a problem as it is now. IMO makes things a bit fairer.
 
The limiter flattens out the power band at upper rpm range, while leaving all the torque in the middle. I've tried doing this and the car I did it with fell flat getting up to speed. Some cars apparently work just fine like this. But why people would want to do this and give the car a very unnatural & bizarre power band is beyond me.

Yes, the point of this post was to call out the power limiter abusers who continually bring supercars/street race cars into pp/hp ranges that they don't belong in.

So knock it off.. please.
Your 458, LFA, R8, ZR1, etc. are NOT 500pp cars. Pick another car.
 
I'm not a big fan of detuning either but they do in real life as well.
The 458 GT2 is powered by a 470 horsepower V8 and weighs 1245 kg. The alloy wheels are 18 inches. Interestingly, to fit into regulations, the 458 GT2 is 100 horsepower less powerful than street version and almost 30 kg heavier than the recently unveiled Ferrari 458 Challenge.The gearbox is a Hewland sequential 6-speed novel, called to replace the 7-speed dual-clutch, which is part of the standard equipement needed.
Click to expand...
http://www.infomotori.com/auto/2010/12/10/ferrari-458-gt2/
 
XXI
That would be inaccurate sir. Torque is far more important as it is the componet that puts the vehicle in motion. Sacrificing horsepower for torque is ideal and gives the de-tuned driver the "unfair advantage". Torque wins races, horsepower sells cars.
Click to expand...

Perhaps my point was not clear enough. When you utilize the power limiter both hp and torque are affected but to varying degrees. Specifically hp will be reduced to a greater degree than torque. Furthermore, sacrificing horsepower for torque by using the power limiter is NOT ideal for two reasons:

1) Take two otherwise identical cars with identical pp. Car A has 505hp and 495 lbs/ft torque. Car B has 495 hp and 505 lbs/ft torque. Car A will have a higher top speed.

2) Using the power limiter distorts the powerband by pushing max torque "to the left" to lower rev ranges. This results in high torque levels existing at unusable rev ranges. Therefore you are sacrificing hp for unusable torque.

In conclusion, users who make drastic use of the power limiter are putting themselves at a disadvantage. At any given pp level a properly tuned car that does not use the power limiter should always be faster than a car overly de-tuned through use of the power limiter.

But don't take my word for it:

Observations on PP Maximization by Harvey Wallbanger & Friends
 
Everbody don't forget one thing , when someone de-tune car he's punishing him self the car will be useless .
 
johnnutz
Perhaps my point was not clear enough. When you utilize the power limiter both hp and torque are affected but to varying degrees. Specifically hp will be reduced to a greater degree than torque. Furthermore, sacrificing horsepower for torque by using the power limiter is NOT ideal for two reasons:

1) Take two otherwise identical cars with identical pp. Car A has 505hp and 495 lbs/ft torque. Car B has 495 hp and 505 lbs/ft torque. Car A will have a higher top speed.

2) Using the power limiter distorts the powerband by pushing max torque "to the left" to lower rev ranges. This results in high torque levels existing at unusable rev ranges. Therefore you are sacrificing hp for unusable torque.

In conclusion, users who make drastic use of the power limiter are putting themselves at a disadvantage. At any given pp level a properly tuned car that does not use the power limiter should always be faster than a car overly de-tuned through use of the power limiter.

But don't take my word for it:

Observations on PP Maximization by Harvey Wallbanger & Friends
Click to expand...
👍👍
My thoughts exactly, you no longer have a smooth power delivery, as you would normally have. (and perhaps other people have in the room) Think of it like a light switch, with a higher limit you have a regular 2 position switch, all or nothing. Without excessive limiting you have a dimmer control, able to feed in the power more gradually, and with much more control over the exact level of power applied. This is especially true if you're using a regular controller, which has even less range of control, so feathering the power is even harder!
 

Latest Posts

Back