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So why call it an Elise at all?The Elise is in a different class now. It doesn't matter that it's gained 400 pounds because it's no longer supposed to be a flyweight track car. It's now a focused Boxster rival.
So why call it an Elise at all?The Elise is in a different class now. It doesn't matter that it's gained 400 pounds because it's no longer supposed to be a flyweight track car. It's now a focused Boxster rival.
So why call it an Elise at all?
Thank you. Might as well be comparing buying a $20,000 C5 Z06 & how you can build it to run next to Ford GTs all day with the money you save.^ Exige beat me to it. And here in the UK you can pick up an Elise from about £5k. Of course an NA MX5 that's as much as 21 years old is going to be cheaper than a brand new Elise and if you spend $50k modifying pretty much anything it'd beat an Elise...
Let me reiterate my point here. I didn't have the money to buy it, but recently I attempted to jump through some car loan hoops to buy a 1999 Miata. It had 10,000 original miles, as opposed to that Elise's 35,000. It cost $10,000, as opposed to that Elise's $24,000. That's a savings of 25,000 miles and $14,000. That's quite a lot of money left over to modify your technically newer 1999 Miata. And since it is a Miata it actually has more creature comforts than the Elise, so is all around the better car.You can't really be comparing buying a brand new Elise to a modifying a 20 year old Mazda.
Here's a 5 year old Elise down the street from you asking 24,900.
Don't even talk about being a motoring purist if you're going to spend that kind of money on some flashy, useless sports car when you could spend a fraction of the money on the sports car and do some man work without having to drop the subframe to change the air filter. In your garage, with some buddies, a case of beer, and football on the TV.
Makes more sense than coming up with an entirely new moniker.
This argument would work except:In the interest of not dragging this on too long I'll just stop arguing about the current car. I generally feel that adding weight to a car simply makes it worse most of the time, and I've lost quite a lot of respect for Lotus not adhering to it's founder's ethos. The only fairly mainstream company that was so adamant about light weight for years now, producing only the Elise and Exige, has gone the way of every other company out there. Just like BMW, advertising "The Ultimate Driving Machine" when they're smallest offerings are approaching 2 tons. Lotus has pretty much defaulted on the philosophy that they were founded on in the name of profit.
The Esprit was never light and it was launched (and updated) within Chapman's lifetime. Sure, the S1 was a metric tonne - which is some fabled promised land these days - but look at the other cars of the day. It weighed 25% more than the Golf GTi, 12% more than an Escort RS and 10% more than an Opel Kadett, while coming in at 30% less than a Datsun 280Z.
Flash forwards 33 years and the Esprit now weighs 1,450kg. That's almost identical to the top Golf (Golf R), 1.1% less than the Focus RS and 11% less than the top Astra, while coming in at 20% less than a Nissan GT-R.
In terms of what's around it, the Esprit is lighter now than it ever was. So who's going against Chapman?
This is a ridiculous argument.Mazda, on the other hand, started by making Kei cars. They didn't begin with a sporty identity, they created it. They're the only company putting their ridiculous rotary engine in production because that's the identity they want, they've applied to numerous flagship sports cars which set this sporting identity in stone, they're the makers of the most popular light weight sports car in history, they still make it, and want to get back to its roots next time, and of course they still make cars for everybody just like the did in the beginning. Mazda is pretty honest. Lotus just isn't anymore. I feel lied to, and I find it astonishing that everyone is isn't raving about this.
Weight causes problems that ultimately can only be overcome by less of it. More stress on the brakes, no matter how good the brakes are, and more stress on tires, no matter how good the tires are. It's a fact that weight is the enemy of performance, and technology is only hiding that reality. I feel that is a temporary condition and eventually cars will simply need to start shedding weight, simple as that.
You mean more than simply using the name of the car Lotus makes that already exists in that class?
No. The Europa.
Again, the GT-R is the prime example. Whilst it weighs 3,800lbs., the tech. is so advanced that the weight hardly looks as if it even affects it compared to the car's competition.
Edit: Lotus is going to change the Europa design:
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By the way, who is Lotus owned by now?
It’s been a while since we last heard of South African designer Idries Noah but now he’s back, this time with a new design proposition called the Lotus Europa i6.
As for the new Europa, it's a shared design as Dodge is going to be using the same body for their EV car. I don't know if that means the Europa will cease production then, but, it'll be weird having two cars with the same body but different interals....they'll be brothers literally from different mothers.
As for the new Europa, it's a shared design as Dodge is going to be using the same body for their EV car.
I don't know if that means the Europa will cease production then
it'll be weird having two cars with the same body but different interals....they'll be brothers literally from different mothers.
No. The Europa.
The Europa itself is a bit of a strange case for Lotus. Proton hired Lotus to come up with a sportscar for the Asian market, still under the Proton name. The car was seen testing there alongside other Proton test cars. Their marketing team decided that there wasn't enough of a demand for an Elise with more accessibility and comfort, so the car was shipped back to England, and Lotus just decided to release it under their own brand. That's why it doesn't look anything at all like their current brand, and it doesn't seem like Lotus lost any money at all, even with the poor sales.
and the rest of it was basically an Elise anyway with different bodywork. I suspect it took very little re-engineering to turn Elise into Europa.
AutocarLotus: How we're going to do it
Lotus stunned the world last week with the launch of six new models at the Paris motor show that will take the Norfolk firm right into the heart of Aston Martin, Porsche and Ferrari territory. Many commentators have expressed extreme scepticism over the plans, so Steve Cropley went to meet Lotus's new CEO Dany Bahar for the inside story on how the firm will carry out its radical plan.
I always had a weakness for this brand, says Hethels rule-changing CEO of the past 12 months, Dany Bahar. Even while I was working at Ferrari, I knew Lotus was special. But to me, the products werent doing justice to the great name and heritage.
Bahar, who sounds like a soft-voiced Michael Schumacher when he speaks, comes across as a far more emollient character than the person portrayed on the rumour-mill for the 12 months he has so far spent in the main mans seat at Lotus, avoiding interviews while he put his radical changes into action.
He settles comfortably in an armchair as we talk, resting one leg comfortably on the other and displaying the sharpest trouser creases Ive ever seen.
We want our new cars to be as big as the brand itself, he explains. The previous management tried hard to do that with the Evora, but they had to leave everything else the same. Our new plan means we have the opportunity to change everything to do things from a better position and thats what were going to do.
Bahar readily acknowledges outsiders worries about his plan raising the investment, finding the buyers, delivering the quality and deals calmly with them, one by one. Our investment is confirmed, he insists. Our shareholders have lost a lot of money at Lotus over the past 14 years, and they wanted to stop that. There were two options: sell the company or run it to its potential. They made the second choice.
But just how dependable is the solvency of Lotuss owner, Proton, given its well-known past losses and market difficulties? Bahar points to its strong links with the Petronas oil company and with the Malaysian government.
Theyre strong, he says. They have their own aggressive plan to lift production to a million cars over the next five to seven years, from around 350,000. Besides that, theyre fun to work with. They have 1000 engineers of their own, and Lotus is already making use of those as capacity allows to work on third-party engineering projects. Its a great partnership.
Bahar insists that although his name is on the recovery plan, it wasnt simply something he dreamed up. I asked people, he says. I'm not a car guy. We did lots of research and I consulted people I trust, some of whom liked the idea so much they now work in the business. That part feels good; knowing there are people who believe we can do this thing just as passionately as I do.
Downsides? Bahar is disappointed by the reaction of the UKs coalition government to Lotuss requests for loans to finance its plant development. We were asking for loans, he says, not grants. We could have 1200 new manufacturing jobs here under the new plans. They complimented us on our presentation, and the whole thing looked a no-brainer. But we learned it wasnt a no-brainer
Now, Bahar says, theyll make more use of outside suppliers. Well do what we have to do here, but well outsource things that arent our speciality just like every other modern manufacturer does. That, and clever design, will help a lot with the quality thing. We wont try to be experts at leather work. Well find people who can deliver it.
Bahar, a study in coolness, becomes almost excited when the talk turns to motorsport. Lotuss DNA is based on racing, he says. No other company has ever had such a wide spread of success: F1, other open-wheelers, Le Mans, sports cars, GTs. Why would we discard such treasure, when its where the brands authenticity comes from?
Besides, says Bahar, racing has a big impact on the road cars. After they have been tested by the best drivers, you feel safe to take them to the maximum.