Passing.......A real solution afterall!!

[Biggamehit]

^^hahah yea... odds are in the field of 12 cars.. only 3-4 guys know whats they are doing. i use others speed etc against them. for example i can see in my rear view mirror that they are coming down very hot... so i just move to the inside at the last minute... my guy waves to them as they go off into the sand box or wall.

also allowing someone to pass can be a strategy.. for example on High Speed Ring Reverse, sometimes a car with higher hp... ill open up the inside let them pass, get in the draft and ill blow right by them to the finish line. You hardly see this in reality, but meh its a sim.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

There comes a point when being overtaken where there is a clear choice between backing off and conceding the position or crashing into the guy who's just beaten you fair and square.

Any good racer will give the other guy room to pass, whether inside or outside. Most numptys will cause a wreck. I think it's a mixture of attitude ("He's not going to beat me!") and inexperience ("Oops! I wonder why that happened")

I think that, when being passed, the point of no return (when you've been bested) is a lot earlier than most people realise. I see a lot of accidents caused by drivers who didn't realise they were as good as a position down and, in trying to prevent the inevitable pass, end up causing the inevitable pile up.

 

[Biggamehit]

yea... almost always if im in 3rd... there is a chance that in the battle for 1st... one will screw up and ill take second lol... however... im starting to get bored, other than the pure fun of playing with other guys online... there is no points system ...

 

[Ardius]

You missed the point a bit, the "reverse lights" comment from 91hondawagon was more aimed at PD never including something as simple as that in the "real driving simulator", rather than at the situation we're discussing here.

Perhaps, but why would they put reverse lights in the game in the first place?? I dont see how reverse lights are as relevant as indicators in a racing game, even though I think indicators are a little useless in themselves. I was referring the fact that there is not a single time in the game where you would need reverse lights.

You would think, but racing online has shown me that it's not that simple. Like I said, I sometimes let people pass, for the most different reasons. Unfortunately, in at least 50% of those attempts, the guy behind me doesn't anticipate I let him pass. What this leads to are wild maneuvers of said people to avoid ramming my car, making them spin out or off the track, which I really didn't want to. Therefore, me indicating with my blinkers that I'm actually making way would make a difference.

What I meant with saying you can just slow down, is if the person behind clearly is faster than you and has already attempted to pass a couple of times or is already trying a move. Although it largely depends on how good they are at noticing what you are doing, but one would have thought that if they are trying to overtake you, they'd be watching what your car was doing. If they screw up, it's not my fault.
Anyone else isn't worth trying to do anything for, it's better just to keep racing and let them make the move.

 

[the Interceptor]

Perhaps, but why would they put reverse lights in the game in the first place?? I dont see how reverse lights are as relevant as indicators in a racing game, even though I think indicators are a little useless in themselves. I was referring the fact that there is not a single time in the game where you would need reverse lights.

But they wouldn't disturb you in any way, would they? I remember Need for Speed III having indicators and a reverse light, and that's an absolute arcade racer. How come then that Polyphony, in a game that claims to be a driving simulator close to reality, never managed to get a function as simple as that in 4.5 generations of Gran Turismo?

What I meant with saying you can just slow down, is if the person behind clearly is faster than you and has already attempted to pass a couple of times or is already trying a move. Although it largely depends on how good they are at noticing what you are doing, but one would have thought that if they are trying to overtake you, they'd be watching what your car was doing. If they screw up, it's not my fault.
Anyone else isn't worth trying to do anything for, it's better just to keep racing and let them make the move.

Absolutely agree, but it's especially the situations with pros when indicating would sometimes be a good idea. When in a dogfight, you always expect the guy in front to do something specific. When he suddenly changes his behavior to something you didn't expect (like slowing down or moving off the racing line), you may be faced with a situation where you have to avoid an impact and lose control of your car. So why not implement something as simple and as small as indicators, so I know what the guy in front of me is up to? I mean that's what indicators are for anyway. And it's not exactly the holy grail of programming, is it?

 

[Ardius]

But they wouldn't disturb you in any way, would they? I remember Need for Speed III having indicators and a reverse light, and that's an absolute arcade racer. How come then that Polyphony, in a game that claims to be a driving simulator close to reality, never managed to get a function as simple as that in 4.5 generations of Gran Turismo?

Stop with the "these people did it, so why not them?" argument and just give me one good reason you need reverse lights in a racing game. Go on.
Because that in itself is the reason we have not seen them in Gran Turismo and probably never will - they are pointless and not needed at all.
Yes, Gran Turismo is close to reality, because I can't remember any real racing car that uses reverse lights on a track, ever.

And, ok, yeah, someone might not do what you expect them to.....but that is one of the main points of racing. If you suffer from this a lot then you need to stop assuming what people will do and watch them more carefully, either that or stay away from open wheel racing because you sure won't get any indicators there!

 

[the Interceptor]

Stop with the "these people did it, so why not them?" argument and just give me one good reason you need reverse lights in a racing game. Go on.

It's not a racing game, it's a driving simulator. It claims to be one of the most realistic driving experiences to date, and also in the past. It has working brake lights: you step on the brake, the lights light up.

Now you tell my why, when I put in reverse gear, the reverse light doesn't light up. That's like 5 minutes extra of programming on a car that takes how many manhours to model? A few hundred? Why does a ten year old arcade racer have that, and "the real driving simulator" doesn't?

 

[Ardius]

It's not a racing game, it's a driving simulator. It claims to be one of the most realistic driving experiences to date, and also in the past. It has working brake lights: you step on the brake, the lights light up.

Now you tell my why, when I put in reverse gear, the reverse light doesn't light up. That's like 5 minutes extra of programming on a car that takes how many manhours to model? A few hundred? Why does a ten year old arcade racer have that, and "the real driving simulator" doesn't?

I'm sorry, perhaps I worded that wrong, what place does reverse lights have in Gran Turismo?
Reverse lights have use in driving in the real world on roads.......but they do not have a place driving on a race track.

Yes, its lazy modelling and programming....but then its fair enough because its completely bloody pointless.

I dont care what Polyphony have named the game, it is a racing game and as much as you want to avoid that blatant fact, it means that reverse lights have no reason to be in there except to be "faithful to the car model", which is the last thing I want to be realistic in relation to how the cars work.

 

[the Interceptor]

I don't see the point of reverse lights in actually using them in the game. But that's not my reasoning to discuss this. I know that Kazunori Yamauchi is obsessed with cars. He makes his employees model every single detail of a car in countless hours. The clear glass headlamps alone will make up a significant amount of time when modelling a car. But when it comes to lighting, something that would take a minimum of extra effort in programming, they suddenly stop and say "Nah, that's not important!". Why?

How does a headlamp modeled to an extent I'll never be able to appreciate when driving matter to me? In comparison, how does a function that only takes a tiny fraction of the work, is part of every real life car to date, and at least has the chance of helping somebody in the game (for example when I spun out and back up onto the track), not make it into the game?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the game is bad because of this, nor am I implying that someone should not buy this game because there are no reverse lights or indicators. Yet, I see very little reason for this not to be in the game, simply because it would be so easy to implement and belongs to the nice touches one likes a game for.

 

[GTP_chemicaL]

Well the full game could have brale lights, who knows

 

[Ardius]

I don't see the point of reverse lights in actually using them in the game. But that's not my reasoning to discuss this. I know that Kazunori Yamauchi is obsessed with cars. He makes his employees model every single detail of a car in countless hours. The clear glass headlamps alone will make up a significant amount of time when modelling a car. But when it comes to lighting, something that would take a minimum of extra effort in programming, they suddenly stop and say "Nah, that's not important!". Why?

How does a headlamp modeled to an extent I'll never be able to appreciate when driving matter to me? In comparison, how does a function that only takes a tiny fraction of the work, is part of every real life car to date, and at least has the chance of helping somebody in the game (for example when I spun out and back up onto the track), not make it into the game?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the game is bad because of this, nor am I implying that someone should not buy this game because there are no reverse lights or indicators. Yet, I see very little reason for this not to be in the game, simply because it would be so easy to do and belongs to the nice touches you like a game for.

Ok, now I'm confused. You agree that they have no place in the game then you ask why they didnt bother when making the car models?
Also, I repeat again; they have no use in game. It doesn't help anyone letting them know you are reversing because:
1. Almost always, you are going to be reversing when the other person is coming around the corner at high speed, in which case whether a little white light is on or not doesn't really make much difference.
2. If the other person is travelling slower though, they would already be able to avoid you quite easily because they would anyway, regardless of white lights.
3. There should be never a time when you are reversing onto a race track, ever. If you are, you are doing perhaps one of the most dangerous things possible.
4. The only time I can think of needing to reverse is when you are head first in a barrier or wall, but since usually those are off in the sand or not on the racing line, a white light is again quite useless.

 

[the Interceptor]

Ok, now I'm confused. You agree that they have no place in the game then you ask why they didnt bother when making the car models?

I said they at least have a chance to make a difference in the game. But if we don't need reverse lights, why do we need things like clear glass headlamps? They will not have the slightest impact in racing, they use quite a bunch of processing power (lot of details, reflections, etc.) and they need loads of programming time. Why is Kaz so pedantic about these parts of the car, but on others, even if they are very basic and easy to implement, he just doesn't bother at all?

 

[Ardius]

I said they at least have a chance to make a difference in the game. But if we don't need reverse lights, why do we need things like clear glass headlamps? They will not have the slightest impact in racing, they use quite a bunch of processing power (lot of details, reflections, etc.) and they need loads of programming time. Why is Kaz so pedantic about these parts of the car, but on others, even if they are very basic and easy to implement, he just doesn't bother at all?

Probably because they do intend in using the headlights and they have no intention of using reverse lights?
The reverse lights are on the car though......so this isn't related to modelling, this is related to special effects.

 

[the Interceptor]

Probably because they do intend in using the headlights and they have no intention of using reverse lights?
The reverse lights are on the car though......so this isn't related to modelling, this is related to special effects.

You're missing my point. What I'm trying is to explain how they use gazillions of hours on programming one thing, but leave out another thing that is at least of the same importance for the game, but would take way less time to implement. Additionally, they do program some lights to work in the game, but just leave out others. Then, they talk about how every car ate hundreds of hours to be modelled to an extent no other game achieves.

 

[zodicus]

The other cars audio I think would help a lot, If I loose the guy in my rear view I have no idea where he is. Ive gone wide the whole way around a corner only to come out of the corner and see the guy I thought was on my inside just comming back on the trak from a off on the way in. Now if I heard his car drop off I would know my inside was clear. Also Ive followed people before and not been in a good spot to pass so I stay behind but while back there im on and off the throttle if they could hear that mabye they would realize that im faster and give room to let the faster car through. (prob not but I know I would anyway) IDK however if this is in PD's skill set because for whatever reason the audio, especially when it comes to the cars in GT has always been sub-par at best.

P.S. The interceptor I totally agree with you. why? well why not, they serve no perpose is moot, a working G meter serves no perpouse especially when theres one already in the HUD but yet there it is in the GTR...........

 

[Patrocles]

I've raced and raced many times online and every time I would catch a slow car in front of me but instead of him letting me pass he would just block me. Now i am not saying that this is unfair at all mates after all we r fighting for a position.
The problem with blocking is if you do decide to throw your car at me when there's a fast corner approaching, say like, Suzuka for example where there's plenty of those ( ), if you brake too early and I too late what happens (I crash into you and then you go bye bye). I've seen this happening many times over and over again, even with GTP members. I think I speak for everyone else in here.

So today I was watching LeMans 24hrs and then I noticed something AMAZING (MIRACLE , for me) that I was like wow, this could end this annoying thing for all of us afterall.....maybe GT should take note on this. Everytime a P1 car would go past say by a GT1 car....the GT1 car would give a signal either to the left or to the right depending where the car on the back was. Now it would be stupid to use turn signals while cornering the car.....(People this isn't real driving, sry) but it would start solving a lot problems when you r trying to pass this slow car and he just don't know whether you will go left or right (VISE-VERSA).

So if the car in the front knows that you are about to pass, he will give you the light (Left or Right) making it easy for you and him. All this means is, no more silly crashes while trying to pass someone and plus clean races since after this new update is hard to find anymore.

Good observation!

Perhaps an sim racing expert, or an expert on real racing, can also help out here, but the method I follow is to allow only 1 blocking move per straight section. For example if i'm fighting for position with a car behind me going into a left-hand turn and I move to the left side to take a defensive line and block a potential pass. I will stay to the left and not move again until we have exited the curve. If the car behind me goes right and takes the outside line on the left-hand turn I will make NO attempt to stop him.

Also, I try to use my smarts a bit...if the car coming up behind me is clearly faster than me I will let him pass. Why risk both of us getting taken out when he is clearly the faster pilot!

 

[L_Hamilton]

The majority of players don't know how to use left/right view.
Expecting them to turn blinkers is ridiculous...

Who said to look side to side?..If they can look back, then it's better..but when do you look to the side of your car trying to see the person's blinkers?

 

[MeWhiteNoise]

One thing that some of the TOCA games had when a car was nearing you a red arrow would appear at the bottom of the screen in relation to the cars position on track that was coming up behind you, at first appearing with perhaps say a 10% tint and increasing in solidity until it reached 100% solidity when the car was right on you. This was such an easy GUI effect to read, only taking a mere glance for you to understand pretty much exactly where the closing car was. Obviously PD can't go ripping it off verbatim but some sort of proximity/location indicator I found to work really well.

PS - Reverse lights 👍

simulator |ˈsimyəˌlātər|
noun
a machine with a similar set of controls designed to provide a realistic imitation of the operation of a vehicle, aircraft, or other complex system, used for training purposes'

 

[ProtoCell]

Who said to look side to side?..If they can look back, then it's better..but when do you look to the side of your car trying to see the person's blinkers?

Exactly my point. Racing online you are telling me that you are going to look to the right or left to see where the guy is? That's just crazy...that's the last thing I wanna do.

 

[zodicus]

Exactly my point. Racing online you are telling me that you are going to look to the right or left to see where the guy is? That's just crazy...that's the last thing I wanna do.

Whys it crazy I do it all the time.

 

[ProtoCell]

Whys it crazy I do it all the time.

Then you are truly blessed cause it's really hard to do that while you have someone on your side going 150mph!

 

[Ardius]

Then you are truly blessed cause it's really hard to do that while you have someone on your side going 150mph!

Just a simple tap is all that is required...its not like you have to try and read the writing on the opponents helmet!
I don't see how glancing left or right is any more challenging than glancing behind you?

Oh, and by the way, I'm referring to using the look left/right function while in any view other than the cockpit view, because then its instantaneous, rather than that slow motion it does to simulate the drivers head moving.

 

[Div is back]

Who said to look side to side?..If they can look back, then it's better..but when do you look to the side of your car trying to see the person's blinkers?

You got it all wrong?💡

I said if people can't be bothered to look to their sides when making an overly aggressive pass, overshooting a corner and deliberately getting on the race line, then how can you expect these guys to use blinkers?

 

[sxboyd]

Please note that the signals in Le Mans series racing is done between classes of cars, NOT when two cars are vying for position. When racing for position, they go at it tooth and nail, but since they know the consequence of bashing on each other, they are patient and race cleanly. However, even they do a little blocking and punting occasionally. Remember the finish at the last year's La Mans between the Porsche and the Ferrari at the end of the race? It was NOT pretty, but it still wasn't as brutal as some of the online races get - right, jasonhoph? You FINALLY won one out of 5 the other night with your punting, then you didn't come back. WAHHHH!