Patch 1.06/1.07: Awkward AI Behavior?

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ItsHim

ItsHim

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I just noticed recently that the 1.06/1.07 patch introduced some very awkward behavior of the AI both in A-Spec and arcade.

Even after the slightest nudge or love-tap (which can happen even if one likes to keep it clean and gives oneself a power/weight handicap and tries to drive around the opponents rather than straight through them) the AI virtually jumps out of the way, slams on the brakes and falls back a couple of hundred meters to make absolutely sure one can pass without any hassle.

Well, I didn't have any fundamental issues with the AI up to 1.06 and found that if I drove within reasonable boundaries the AI was quite ok and did put up a fight once in a while.

Now I find it's far too easy to bully my way through traffic, even unintentionally. Kills some of the fun for me.

Any thoughts on your side?
 
ItsHim
I just noticed recently that the 1.06/1.07 patch introduced some very awkward behavior of the AI both in A-Spec and arcade.

Even after the slightest nudge or love-tap (which can happen even if one likes to keep it clean and gives oneself a power/weight handicap and tries to drive around the opponents rather than straight through them) the AI virtually jumps out of the way, slams on the brakes and falls back a couple of hundred meters to make absolutely sure one can pass without any hassle.

Well, I didn't have any fundamental issues with the AI up to 1.06 and found that if I drove within reasonable boundaries the AI was quite ok and did put up a fight once in a while.

Now I find it's far too easy to bully my way through traffic, even unintentionally. Kills some of the fun for me.

Any thoughts on your side?
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Maybe PD read all the crying about the AI holding their racing line (granting some of it was zombie AI, but some of it was also the AI not ceding space when it was trying to maintain it's line) and they decided to give the people freaking out what they wanted, which was a tender and sensitive AI that cuddled and cried after a...race.
 
I've noticed this too.
I reckon this is why the seasonal F1 races are too easy, the AI yield too easily.
Wouldn't it be nice if PD gave us the option of choosing (or random selections) different driver AI types for a race. Like having a A. Senna style AI, and a Schumacher style etc.
How I dream of seeing the AI treat me as I so often treat them.....
 
Im with you, i had no complaints about the AI before the updates but now they yield far too easily except on the rare occasion where they have a snap back.
 
1.06/1.07 definitely did introduce Reckless Driving for the S-License runs. Wait till you do the trial mountain, those poor poor cars in front of you... For if they don't evade me, then I will use them as side impacters to maintain my forward momentum.
 
Yeah, I noticed the improvement in AI which is great. But it still need to get better.
 
i also noticed the AI seems to go banzai on each other.. like i watched a Zonda LM come rocketing into Arnage (the corner after the Mulsanne correct me if im wrong the name is slipping my mind) from behind me... right past my car... right into the back of a Spec II GT... nearly taking that car out.. and then my C5R gave him a love tap later.. and the Zonda slowed right up.. its weird.. i want AI that actually races you
 
Gamerwillz
Yeah, I noticed the improvement in AI which is great. But it still need to get better.
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I'm not sure if it's an improvement as such. When I'm braking just a tad too late and nudge the back of an AI car for example, on several occasions it broke away from its racing line to let me pass? That's a bit too much fair play even for me. And I do like Snooker a lot.

ZR1fan
i also noticed the AI seems to go banzai on each other.. like i watched a Zonda LM come rocketing into Arnage (the corner after the Mulsanne correct me if im wrong the name is slipping my mind) from behind me... right past my car... right into the back of a Spec II GT... nearly taking that car out.. and then my C5R gave him a love tap later.. and the Zonda slowed right up.. its weird.. i want AI that actually races you
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I think it must have been the Nürburgring GP track where they had trouble keeping up a decent pace because the Bobs slowed down after a few taps in the pack. "Oh sorry old chap." "Not at all, entirely my fault old sport." "Too kind of you to say so." "One sugar or two?" ;)

So it's not my driving style that got corrupted because I put hardly any laps in the past few days. Time to start a petition I think :sly: :dunce:
 
exactly.. racing is not tea and cookies... when the guy with the FGT online intentionally took out my SLS at Daytona during that online track day.. did i let it go? no.. i went and got my X1 and punted him into the weeds.. thats how racing SHOULD be..
 
ZR1fan
exactly.. racing is not tea and cookies... when the guy with the FGT online intentionally took out my SLS at Daytona during that online track day.. did i let it go? no.. i went and got my X1 and punted him into the weeds.. thats how racing SHOULD be..
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Guess Mario Kart's your game then?:)
 
I noticed AI cars were spinning out of control in some turns of Eilfel seasonal event.
 
No way, the AI was much better before last patching.

I like clean driving, avoiding contacts, and usually restart a race in which I judge contacts are my fault.

1) They brake without reason in close battle, for example when you attack them on an external line.
Thought: I liked the AI before. They were more competitive, less shy.

2) Very often are too aggressive and bumps you crossing your *legal* racing line.
Thought: very happy I haven't to buy for fixing damage, but at this time I would like an ingame insurance to make (easy) money.

Some races are more challenging, because PD upgraded the "level" of AI Bobs per race.
Pre 1.06: level 0 Bobs in level 0 races, and so on.
Post 1.06: higher level Bobs for every (?) race. Some like 10 levels more.
Higher level... but their driving has become worse.
 
To me it seems as though you can now spin out ai cars whereas it was harder before? And yeah - sometimes i just get close to other cars with no contact and they back off. PD have nearly got it right - the backing off is a bit too excessive though, racing room is all thats needed and not a change of pace.
 
This has effectively ruined anything resembling fun I had been having going through A-Spec, and I REALLY hope it gets fixed in the next update. They're slow enough already, they don't need to be made any slower. Actually, they aren't any slower, they just won't race you anymore.

Any time you get even the slightest overlap with their rear end while they are turning even the tiniest amount, even in 100% flat out corners that even they can take flat out every time, they just slam on the brakes and keep slowing down until you are past them. You don't even need to be close to them, just alongside. I had it happen with an AI hugging the far inside and me hugging the far outside lines in the last little tiny sweeper leading onto the Hunaudieres at Le Mans. Could clearly hear the guy brake heavily and downshift. In tight corners it can be really comical as they get bogged down by dropping the revs way too low.

So races now go like this: Catch up to a guy. Take a tiny peek/pull alongside to setup a fight down the next straight/take evasive action due to them being their usual slow selves. Watch as he slows down and waves you through. Set off to catch the next guy.

You already have to have a car much slower than them to have a decent fight, and now you have to make your car so slow that you can't even hope to catch up if you fall out of the Superslipstream in order to have any challenge whatsoever.

To look on the bright side, I suppose I've had some rather amusing moments when I've refused to let them let me pass, as we both come to an almost complete stop in the middle of the track and dare one another to be the first to hit the gas again. :)

What is happening to this game? Please please please fix this PD. I know it's hard to notice this with all the commotion about the horror of something that wasn't really a problem being taken away from people, which isn't really a problem either. But some people like to actually play the game, and now there's not even any reason to do that anymore, at least not to run any races offline.
 
I wish it to be known that I too am annoyed by the bi-polar tendencies of this new AI. They are both more aggressive and more, well, pathetic.

I also preferred the AI from before 1.06, they just needed their in-corner braking habits adjusting.
 
I think we have altogether too high expectations from AI, considering it is being run on hardly a supercomputer...

The bottom line is, most other games that DO have challenging AI, they do it by a combination of cheats and rubber-banding. Maybe PD's don't, but the end result is AI that is pathetically slow and no challenge in the slightest. Personally, if out of sight the AI has to cheat and rubber band to stay competitive, I'm all for it. As long as, within my sight, it behaves decently, what does it MATTER what it does off the screen?

I just don't get it... Has Kaz ever played anyone ELSE'S racing game? Surely by now he must realize how poor the GT franchise's AI is. It unbalances the game completely. You can't even HAVE an even race with an even car. It's like Carl Lewis in a Special Olympics race! But nooooo....!

He'd rather have photo-realistic modeled headlamps (that you can only see in photo mode) than an AI that gave you a good race.

I wish that one day, all of Kaz's opponents on a REAL track drove like his AI. Just to shame him! Shame is a powerful force in Japan. Kaz and PD need a healthy dose of it. If Kaz came in first by several laps, because everyone came almost to a standstill as he went past, braked twice as early as him, and let him past every opportunity they had, he would never race again! Not until he fixed his AI once and for all, anyway!
 
Somebody somewhere, who I'll shamelessly quote without proper credit, summed the problem up perfectly.

"That's why it's called the Real Driving Simulator, not the Real Racing Simulator."

However this latest turn of events is just ridiculous. Did they even bother to test the changes they made before releasing them?
 
Destinkeys
I think we have altogether too high expectations from AI, considering it is being run on hardly a supercomputer...

The bottom line is, most other games that DO have challenging AI, they do it by a combination of cheats and rubber-banding. Maybe PD's don't, but the end result is AI that is pathetically slow and no challenge in the slightest. Personally, if out of sight the AI has to cheat and rubber band to stay competitive, I'm all for it. As long as, within my sight, it behaves decently, what does it MATTER what it does off the screen?
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Actually what is really needed to have a good AI is mods. F1 2010 AI was improved on the PC by those who were very good at driving a track then went back updated the AI to run those lap times and correct braking points. That's the real problem with consoles is you can't mod stuff like the AI like you can with PC games. I really wish there were a pc version of GT5.

I agree I like the AI before 1.06 patch as now they are too passive.
 
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SkylineObsession
To me it seems as though you can now spin out ai cars whereas it was harder before? And yeah - sometimes i just get close to other cars with no contact and they back off. PD have nearly got it right - the backing off is a bit too excessive though, racing room is all thats needed and not a change of pace.
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Yea I noticed that to.
 
I like the choice between Senna and Schumacher style idea.

Both would be ridiculously fast and in the case that another driver tries to pass they would ram him/her into a wall.
 
I'd love to see some video of this new courteous AI as i don't see it in my game in any way shape or form.
I still find a collision with the AI will 9 times out of 10 end in me spinning off while the AI continue without even slowing,wether i've gone into them or vice versa.
Only change i've seen in the AI is my Bob's seem more aggresive and daring,but that could be just where i haven't BSpec'd for a while.
I'm level 31 ASpec/40 Bspec for what its worth.
 
Zoom!Zoom!
Actually what is really needed to have a good AI is mods. F1 2010 AI was improved on the PC by those who were very good at driving a track then went back updated the AI to run those lap times and correct braking points. That's the real problem with consoles is you can't mod stuff like the AI like you can with PC games. I really wish there were a pc version of GT5.

I agree I like the AI before 1.06 patch as now they are too passive.
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Well, no, WE can't mod GT5, but what do you think 'patches' are? That's PD, 'modding' the game. Bad news is, they have their head so far stuck up a dark place, they don't seem to CARE how fubared the AI is. This patch has only made them slower.

The only problem I have with 'ghosted' AI is, it still doesn't take into account what does the AI do when it can't stick to the script..? That's what those Special Licenses are, to be honest. Before the patch, they just ran their script, slammed into you if you got them out of sync, and YOU got the penalty. But PD's so called 'fix' for this was simply to dumb down the contact penalty, and make the AI scared of us.

I think it is time that PD just disassembled Forza and Shift, and just copied their routines. You put Shift's AI on Hard, you had to drive a similar car like a madman to keep up! Dunno about you, but THAT'S my idea of a good race!
 
ItsHim
the AI virtually jumps out of the way, slams on the brakes and falls back a couple of hundred meters to make absolutely sure one can pass without any hassle.

Well, I didn't have any fundamental issues with the AI up to 1.06 and found that if I drove within reasonable boundaries the AI was quite ok and did put up a fight once in a while.
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True, not funny at all. Before the patches they were damn too slow anyway, now they're even dopey. :dopey:
 
Bigbazz
I like the choice between Senna and Schumacher style idea.

Both would be ridiculously fast and in the case that another driver tries to pass they would ram him/her into a wall.
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An ancient game called Sports Car GT on PC (ISIs first game I believe) had an interesting Ai variable set that I recall using to try and create ai styles like real drivers, it was very simplistic but I think elegantly so. I can't remember off hand but it was something like 0-10 for Aggression, speed and accuracy. Senna and Schuey would score pretty much 10-10 for all three to be the hardest opponents to race against. That system seemed to have doed with the game as subsequent ISI releases got too complex with the Ai editing IMO.

I'm fascinated by Ai programming especially in racing games as almost universally racing game Ai is panned! It's obviously not easy, but it seems programmers just concentrate on the "fastest line" and let the Ai loose on that. I don't see why they can't program overtake zones on a track and then have the Ai PLAN overtaking maneuvers and plan to defend too. Couple that with personality and skill modifiers like a mention above and I think Ai would be much better. Of course you then have the resources problem, how much do you devote to the Ai. In that we have our problem, console games will ALWAYS put graphics before Ai. It's a shame.
 
Destinkeys
I think it is time that PD just disassembled Forza and Shift, and just copied their routines. You put Shift's AI on Hard, you had to drive a similar car like a madman to keep up! Dunno about you, but THAT'S my idea of a good race!
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I have to say the AI after being patched wasn't that bad at all in Shift (console). Codemasters made it easier to spin out after contact - that made the player pay a bit more attention - and they toned down the aggressiveness of the AI a bit. The result was quite convincing if you don't mistake battling the AI with battling a good human opponent.

I'm quite gutted right now because I did enjoy the Special events and arcade races as they were but right now it's not fun. I've hardly ever driven on Indi and I sliced 2 seconds a lap in arcade against the AI on hard :grumpy: Not much to do right now for me other than going for a sunday drive as I don't believe in online play.
 
ItsHim
I have to say the AI after being patched wasn't that bad at all in Shift (console). Codemasters made it easier to spin out after contact - that made the player pay a bit more attention - and they toned down the aggressiveness of the AI a bit. The result was quite convincing if you don't mistake battling the AI with battling a good human opponent.
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"wasn't that bad" is a good way that putting it since it wasn't that good either even after the patch. The hardest thing about Shift was getting use to it's odd physics. After this I had no problem beating the AI. Without the PC mod the AI was bad at wrecking on the first corner.

This is one thing that made FM3 AI seem better than it really was compared to Shift. Fm3 line up the cars on the grid with the best car first down to the slowest last while Shift put the slowest in front which cause problem at the first corner. GT also doesn't line up the cars in order from fastest to slowest yet doesn't have a car pile up at the first corner. In this area GT5 AI is better than Shift and probably FM3. Still you had to be careful not to go three wide in the first corner or you will get pitted by the AI since the cars in GT5 are mixed up.
 
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Live for Speed actually has a very decent AI when set on hardest. Atleast they brake into and accelerate out of corners like you should. And that game is made by 3 guys.
I get so annoyed in B-Spec when bob brakes at weirdest places and even taps the brakes coming out of corners. Just watch a replay and go to an onboard of one of the AI's, the amount of weird lines and mid-corner braking is ridiculous.
 
Heyhuub
Live for Speed actually has a very decent AI when set on hardest. Atleast they brake into and accelerate out of corners like you should.
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I almost got a seizure when Bob dive-bombed me today on Laguna Seca. Now where did he learn that from? Also running the Eifel track classic car online special thingy, all Bobs seemed their usual self.

Seems quite a mixed bag for me at the moment. :nervous:
 
I tell you what I've noticed, a lot of the AI drivers will get right alongside and overtake then having made the pass, will just back out of it and give the place back. Very odd!
 
I agree. The AI seem to brake when the player gets too close.
 
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