Patch V1.13

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jjaisli

jjaisli

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jjaisli
Patch V1.13 was released through the PSN today and you will be prompted to download and install it automatically the next time you run Supercar Challenge (provided your PS3 is connected to the internet).

According to Eutechnyx:

Bugs Fixed:


  • A couple of A.I. issues which improve the object avoidance
    Final corner of Hockenheim run off will now invalidate the fastest lap
    The adjustable ride height being out off range which incorrectly increased on track performance
    Rare Net disconnect problem

Improvements and Features:


  • General performance improvement of the A.I.

Hopefully the AI improvements with make the game MUCH better to play off line and the ride height bug fix will make choosing a setup a much more realistic prospect. 👍 I'm very happy that Eutechnyx continues to support this game with fixes and tweaks so long after release.
 
Good news! I'll give it a try tonight and perhaps start a new game save (just to keep things interesting)
 
I'll try it,as soon as I can and try to give you guys some feedback...I even left some tournments unfinished waiting for the improved AI.
I agree with Jeff ,it's remarkable that Eutchnix keeps suporting the game when the only comeback they can expect from that investment is delayed until the release of their next game-in a fidelizing costumers perspective.
Pitty that seems no other software company follows the example...at least regarding racing games...



EDIT

After a quick,quick race,excuse the repetition,in Hockenheim with the Enzo I think the improvements in AI are notorious.
I made a 5 lap race starting the race in the back of the grid,after a few hard battles with AI cars-they seem to be a little more agressive much like SSV8NC- i managed to reach 5th place in the end of the race,oh I forgot to mention AI was in legend, my best lap time was 1,52,xx and 1st and 2nd place managed to do 1,51,xx.
As I have not being played scc for over a month i thought i was out of pace and probably a more routined player would easely drop like 5 or more seconds that lap time.Just out of curiousety I went into the leaderboards and surprisingly the world record was 1,50,xx and Chillie and Dereck held the 2nd and 3rd best times with 1,51,xx so that led me to conclude that Legend seems to mean Legend from now on in scc:tup:
I'm waiting for some feedback from you guys regarding the setup fix as i'm devoted to mine first SSV8 offline championship right now:tup:
 
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I just downloaded and installed the patch. I ran two quick laps in the 348 Challenge. I noticed, much to my surprise, that the car felt different somehow. So I exited and did 5 laps of Spa on Legend in the F40 as we just had an event with this car <2 weeks ago. Again, grip levels, balance, steering feel, all felt a little off. I wondered if maybe a few hours with Dirt 2 had really put me this far off balance or if some of the suspension/ride height changes have affected the cars handling. Hmmmm. I wish now that I had run a few laps before the patch just to compare it back to back.

Anyway, there is certainly an improvement. I wouldn't say the AI is as aggressive (read evil) as they were in Ferrari Challenge but they aren't robots as they were before the patch. And they're much faster. At the start of lap 3 I was up to 7th place and when the car in front of me braked going through Radillion, I spun. In the 5-6 seconds it took to get back on track I was relegated down to last place. And I was amazed to see that the first three cars were already through Les Combs and on to the downhill straight and I wondered if I even would have caught them by the end of the race had I not spun.

No time to test ride height at the moment.
 
Yesterday I did some testing, more focused on time trials for setup testing purpose (following Jeff's suggestion) with the 250LM, a car that's temperamental, at Mugello (full course). Started on default setups, on pad, managed to do a 'white' lap of 2:25:xxx. Then using extreme setups (camber, toe & ride height), dropped it to 2:23:xxx. This would support Jeff's opinion about the setups. However, afterwards, I tweak the setups for more realistic tune:

- Camber (F/R): -2.5 / -1.9
- Toe (F/R): - 0.10 / + 0.10
- Ride Height (F/R): -3 / -3
- Roll Bars (F/R): Hard/Hard
- Springs (F/R): Hard/Hard

I managed to get an astonishing 2:21:261, which put me on 2nd on the leaderboard, just behind (by almost 2 seconds!) NewSoul, and few tenths ahead of Derek. What I make out of it is that the setup problem is solved. Yes there is no tyre wear and so you can go for extreme setups, those however don't give you anymore that shameful advantage over the rest of the pack (ridiculous increase on straight line speed w/ ride all up). You'll get the best of it tweaking for getting the car comfortable for you, as it should.

My opinion is that in future events, the setup should be allowed. However, as obviously, I'm abiding the rules that would be set for those events.

PS - another thing I've notice that would (again) twist the purpose of the leader boards. While on extreme setups I manage a lap on high 2:22:xxx, but it was a 'red' lap. However, when I exited the time trial to go back to the setup table, the game assumed the 'white' 2:23:xxx lap as my session's best, and my 'red' 2:22:xxx as my personal's best (it was then 2:25:xxx). When I came back to the time trial after tweaking setups as showned above, the personal best lap that you find on the right upcorner of screen was the 2:22:xxx that was a 'red' lap.
 
Local times might be messed up but the important question is: Will red laps upload to the online leaderboards?

Afaik they didn't in the past.
 
jjaisli
And was that with the wheel or pad? ;)
Click to expand...

The 2:21:xxx was achieved with pad. On wheel, I tested a little bit only after the mrs. went to bed and the best I got was high 2:24:xxx (with the same setup described previously). I honestly didn't test the wheel / extreme setups combo, but I believe the difference would be the same as on pad - insignificant to me (remember I get the best time on more "rational" setups).

@ drivatar: previous to the first patch there were no red/white laps. They were all white and you would only have the limitations imposed by the games built in penaltys if you cross a chicane, for example. And even those were at the time too condescendent resulting in having unreal laptimes at Monza, for example, from guys that would simple cut straight the chicanes without the game's penalty. Also, by then, there were an issue on the first lap of time trials were the clock start timing a little further than the start line, giving an advantage for the first lap. When the game was first patched, they implemented the red/white lap thing and after some pressure from most of the guys they've erased the leaderboards. Since then the 'red' laps wouldn't count for that. Now, after yesterday's patch, seems to do.
 
I like this patch well done.. The cars feel more stable, like FC. The AI is way improved. I got more of a FC old school feel for the physic. Its maid a difference..
 
RED personal best laps will show as personal best laps in time trail, so was it before and so is it now. And RED laps dont go up in the leaderbords.


About the set-up.
Cars still need rear to be higher than the front to be fast, wich is perfectly normal and logical, as the rear suspension needs to travel to use the tires effectively.

After the pach car set up is not so extreme.
 
The patch is great. The AI is significantly better, and driving seems more stable. Don't get me wrong, the game is still beautifully demanding, but I can now keep a good handle on a car. As for the ride height, I didn't mess around with the tuning much before, so I can't make a legitimate judgement on the matter. 👍👍 for the patch!
 
I did some testing last night and I have to agree, the AI is now much more challenging and competent. Ultimately, it's still possible to beat them, even on Legend level, especially if you tune the car. But it's not easy and starting from the back, you need a handful of laps to do it if your intention is to do it cleanly. One botched corner or half spin and they're all over you. The game is now worth playing off-line.

What I do find interesting, as before the patch, the AI is significantly better at some tracks and with some cars. At Mugello in the 348 Challenge, my fastest lap, a poor lap by any account, was nearly 5 seconds faster than the quickest AI. Although they no longer fall all over themelves, they vigorously defend corners and the racing line and try to crowd you. I would consider some of the moves they pull to be borderline dirty. Racing them and beating them felt like trying to walk quickly through a crowded shopping mall while everybody around you just gawks (I'm sure everybody's been in one of those situations where you're walking behind somebody and move to the left to walk around them and then they move to the left and then you move to the right and they move to the right. You almost wonder if they're doing it on purpose but they're likely just oblivious and sauntering aimlessly). But in the AI's case, they do it by design. On the other hand, racing in the F40 at Mont Tremblant, the top 1/3 of the AI field was putting in the laps in the 1:38s. Trying to match their times, let alone pass them, required a lot of concentration. So I suspect people's impressions of the patch will vary depending on what they're driving, where they're driving and whether or not they have a satisfactory setup.

But over-all, good job.
 
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jjaisli
So I suspect people's impressions of the patch will vary depending on what they're driving, where they're driving and whether or not they have a satisfactory setup.

But over-all, good job.
Click to expand...

And your impressions of the setup-thing? :)
 
bullie77
And your impressions of the setup-thing? :)
Click to expand...

I still need to do some more testing, specifically for setups. I'd like to pick 3-4 different cars and visit 3-4 different tracks and try a variety of set up changes to see how they affect the cars handling characteristics. And I don't think I'm consistent enough as a driver where I can just do 2-3 laps and make comparisons. So it will probably take a few hours.

But from the limited experience I had, I'm pleased with the change. And as it stands right now, I'm leaning towards allowing setups in the Challenge Series.
 
jjaisli
But from the limited experience I had, I'm pleased with the change. And as it stands right now, I'm leaning towards allowing setups in the Challenge Series.
Click to expand...

:cheers:...he's a jolly goodfellow, he's a jolly goodfellow, he's a jolly goodfellow...
 
Following the installation of patch 1.13, existing car setups still remain. For example, previously I had my 333SP rear ride at 0.07. After installing the new patch, this value was still shown. Changing this value made it move immediately to <=0.03. This sudden change could be seen on the car in the setup screen. At this stage I knew that it would probably affect the performance. So I tested it out.

I reverted to my 0.07 rear (by just pressing cancel to avoid saving the changes) and drove around an oval, making note of the speed (and without setting a laptime). Then I changed to 0.03 rear ride and did the same test. The top speed was around 10kph less.

So the existing ride height setup carries over even following the new patch. Naturally this is a problem as it puts a question mark over the validity of the leaderboard times, again.

In my case, all of my cars have a rear ride height of >0.03. I will change mine to valid settings. Many people won't be aware of this problem and will set laptimes with the old rear ride. And sure, some people will be aware of the bug and will preserve their old ride height to keep an advantage!

I can't understand why they don't modify the locally stored PS3 data with the patch update. Maybe it's not possible due to user permissions or something. But there's ways around it; before entering a race/session, a check could be done on the car settings, and if the rear ride is found to be >0.03, a message could be displayed telling the user that the setting must be changed before entering a race.
 
I can't believe this happened.

It's so obvious that you have to check existing save games and change wrong values during loading.

Now people can continue to use the glitch accidentally or intentionally :mad:
 
A ride setup of -0.03/+0.03 has more power than default ride. My test was to drive the 333SP in a time trial at Autoclub oval, and check the speed across the line at the end of lap 1.

Using default ride, the speed across the line was 327kph.

Using -0.03/+0.03, the speed across the line was 334kph.
 
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Alan_G
A ride setup of -0.03/+0.03 has more power than default ride. My test was to drive the 333SP in a time trial at Autoclub oval, and check the speed across the line at the end of lap 1.

Using default ride, the speed across the line was 327kph.

Using -0.03/+0.03, the speed across the line was 334kph.
Click to expand...

A speed difference of 7 kph is not unrealistic with the improved aerodynamic efficiency of lowering the front ride height. Before the patch, and due to the bug, the speed difference was much greater.

None-the-less, it's disappointing to see how this was handled and that it will potentially effect the leaderboards yet AGAIN! Eutechnyx should just make a deal with the lot of us--free games for beta testing patches before release.
 
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I'm not sure how realistic it may or may not be. Arguments can be made for each side. The point is, to me it appears that this increased speed is not part of the intended physics; it's the same ride height problem that was supposed to be fixed. Or rather, the problem was not some bug which suddenly clicked into place once the rear ride went above some value - the problem was always just the physics modeling.

Using the 333SP, the fastest setup is minimum front ride, maximum rear ride, maximum camber. It handles like a bag of cats, and it's the fastest way. But it's unrealistic. So everyone "in the know" will use this kind of setup.

So what happens now. They could do another patch, wipe the leaderboards yet again. But this will take at least a month, and it will seem like an endless line of patches for them. I'd say nothing will happen.
 
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I have just played my first couple of hours since the update and found the game nothing but frustrating......... i use the 333sp most of the time and have unlocked all trophys and won all game modes, since the update i cannot win a race for the life of me. Ai now seems to be aggressive, now it's like a stock car race if you are coming from the back, also the feel of the car seems more sloppy.

I never use the set up car section A. because it takes so long to make a set up and try it with the loading time and B. because i don't really know what i'm doing.

I'm glad i got all the trophies before this update
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Alan_G
A ride setup of -0.03/+0.03 has more power than default ride. My test was to drive the 333SP in a time trial at Autoclub oval, and check the speed across the line at the end of lap 1.

Using default ride, the speed across the line was 327kph.

Using -0.03/+0.03, the speed across the line was 334kph.
Click to expand...

i think tats normal, there might not be much accuracy in the phisics, but thats down to the core of the game.

It wold be wierd when changing reid height did affect only the feel of the car and not the performence.

I am not 100% happy with the changes, it means i have to set all my cars rear to +3 and then figure out -3;-2 ore -1 at the front, my corvette dose not work with -3 at the front... .. and there might be some other cars that need +1 at the front, i suspect the 550GT.

.. atleast the cars with rear +12 are gone, they cold not drive without assists.

..and the preexisting set ups are annoying to!


when i last played 1000 m run in test course there was the same effect.


one more thing that i miss, is the contriller disconecting- charcing- unpluging it issue, its still there, waited for that fix since FC days, it got mentioned, but not yet pached.

im for a next pach, wold be nice to have a option for the host to set all cars to defaul set ups.

there is a glich when reentring a lobby, when you had a default set up, so when you enter a lobby and llock at the livery it shows the default livery from the last lobby in the first place, im not sure if that changes sonething but, its suspicious.

.. when eutechnyx will not pach SCC again then i bet wee will have a new game beta as soon the new game is presented. :)

wishful thinking :dopey:
 
From an aerodynamic point of view it is totally feasible for changes to the ride height to increase or decrease straight line speed and it is standard practice to have a lower front end. I don't agree with Alan's comment that the ride height changes he made gave the car more power. The increased speed came from a more aerodynamically efficient car.

The 7kph speed differential seems like quite a small improvement especially considering the test was done on the fastest oval in the game. What speed improvement would you get on most of the tracks we use more regularly?

The idea of setup changes is to improve the performance of the car and this is all that had happened here. It is normal. Is the 7kph improvement 100% accurate? I cannot answer that and in the words of the man with the moustache "Frankly my dear I don't give a damn"
 
Guess we will be back to default setups events:indiff:Whatever! For me works either way I don't think that will make much diference in the final positions!
 
They stated that the problem was due to the front/rear ride bias going beyond a point where the front of the car goes into the ground, causing the physics to "push the car along" or something. The implication of this was that restricting the adjustable range of the ride would remove the undesired effect of increased speed with low/high ride setups. But with -0.03/+0.03 ride now, it does the exact same as before, just to a lesser extent.

I was expecting there to be flexibility in choice of ride height setups. But now there is an obvious fastest way, which goes against the point of setups. And what about how the ride should affect the centre-of-gravity and cornering speeds. Just as was before, lowering the car doesn't improve cornering speed (if anything it's actually slower cornering). In real life I would expect a more noticeable improvement in cornering speeds with lower ride setups, and less so with improved aerodynamics (especially with the more road-like cars such as 348C, which is already way up in the air compared to 333SP).

Does this ruin the races? No. Can setups be used? Why not.

As for the big problem of existing car setups following installation of the patch, it won't affect online races as it'll be easy to spot a car with an old ride setup. It's more a pain just for time trials and the leaderboard times.
 
Alan_G
I was expecting there to be flexibility in choice of ride height setups.
Click to expand...
its the same with camber and toe, maximum values are likely to produce best results.

As for the big problem of existing car setups following installation of the patch, it won't affect online races as it'll be easy to spot a car with an old ride setup.
Click to expand...

Yes i suspect many players will stay on the old setup, but as far as I tested, i can do the same lap times with the new set up, and even go a litle faster.
 
Have to say I like the new patch. AI is very tough to beat now - Racing on Expert I find that I can't match the leader's race pace. The only reason I got in front of everyone is because the qualifying times are still borked - when racing an F333 I got pole by nearly 20 seconds(!) and then found myself slowing up the field in race pace...

I have found also that the cars I had set up pre-patch (using settings that were based on advice given to me by folks I'd raced online) do handle differntly now and I found myself having to break earlier than I did before. It was fun once I got used to it.

All this game needs really now to fix the single player mode is to fix the computer cars' qualifying time and to give us a proper Championship mode.
 
But still it's still not the same as racing on highest setup in FC, legend i think. That was hard racing car like GT, it was to easy with 333 SP
 

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