PD car options in Gr.3 and Gr.4

[MidnightRun85]

Having now had the game for quite some time and GT7 heading towards launch (some day!) here are my observations and opinions on the car choices Polyphony Digital made throughout the game and some suggestions for GT7. These are mainly focused on the Gr.3, Gr.4 and N category cars, as that's where I spend most of my race time. Overall I'm pretty happy with the availability of cars in the game, although obviously there are loads it would have been nice to have in the game. But these are just my thoughts on the car models which exist in the game as it currently stands.

The Gr.4, Gr.3 selection.

To my simple mind, the Gr.3 car should be more performance-oriented model than the Gr.4 car. Not just a more race-spec version of the same car.

Example: Audi TT Gr.4 and R8 Gr.3. This makes sense because the Gr.3 car is the more exotic model in the real world, and more likely to be a more hardcore race car. PD got this right for Audi, Porsche and VW, but there are many brands where they've chosen the same car and upped the race spec, when the brand has a large range of options in the game. Honda, for example, could have had the Civic Type R as a Gr.4 car, and NSX as Gr.3 car, because the NSX just seems a bit much for a low-spec race car. Toyota could have just had the 86 Gr.4 and Supra/FT1 Gr.3 cars. Mazda could have had the Atenza and MX-5 as Gr.4 cars, and RX-7/RX-V as Gr.3 cars. Chevrolet could have had the Camaro Gr.4 and Corvette Gr.3.

I can understand why they have used the same-model-upgraded tactic with some brands though, like Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Nissan, etc. when there aren't many options within that brand to make the Gr.4 / Gr.3 differentiation, using the same model and upgrading it is sensible.

Missed opportunities.

There are a number of brands where there is no Gr.3 or Gr.4 cars when they have a base model that would have worked nicely even for a Gr.4.

Example: Mini. We have a choice of the classic and the modern, but a Mini Gr.4 car would have been a great inclusion in the game, as they're so commonly raced in the real world. There could have even been a hardcore Gr.3 version.

There's also a few cases where the Gr.3 or Gr.4 cars don't exist as an N category car, and vice versa, which is a shame in some cases.

Example: VW. We have the Golf R, which would have been a pretty cool Gr.4 car, maybe even Gr.3. And we don't have a street-spec Scirocco or Beetle. Same goes for Porsche with the Cayman and the Lamborghini Huracan.

Oddball choices

Then there's the choices which just slightly baffle me.

Example: Bugatti Veyron is an N1000 monster, yet there's a Gr.4 car with half the hp and no Gr.3 car? Why??

Another example: Citroën GT is an immense supercar concept and that's available as a Gr.4 car? I know the DS3 wouldn't have made much sense, but surely that's a more logical choice than the GT as Gr.4 offering?

Anyway, these are just a few thoughts I had while looking through the car list. Let me know your thoughts, if you agree with me or not, and what cars you think work well or should have been different.

Spoiler: My complete list of suggestions/changes

Alfa Romeo: would have been nice to see the Giulietta included, so Giulietta (N200?), Giulietta Gr.4, 4C Gr.3

Alpine: A110 Gr.4, Alpine A110 Gr.3

Aston Martin: Vantage Gr.4, V12 Vantage Gr.3, DBR9 GT1

Audi: TT Gr.4, R8 LMS Gr.3

BMW: M4 Gr.4, M3 Gr.3, M6 Gr.3, Z4 Gr.3

Bugatti: no Gr.3 or Gr.3, because why?

Chevrolet: Camaro Gr.4, Corvette Gr.3

Citroën: DS3 Gr.4 or maybe something else?, GT Gr.3

Dodge: Charger Gr.4, Viper GT3-R

Ferrari: 458 Gr.4, 458 Gr.3

Ford: Focus Gr.4, Mustang Gr.3, GT Gr.3

Honda: Civic Gr.4, NSX Gr.3

Hyundai: Genesis Gr.4, Genesis Gr.3

Jaguar: F-Type Gr.4, F-Type Gr.3

Lamborghini: Huracan Gr.4, Huracan Gr.3

Lexus: IS F Gr.4, RCF GT3

Mazda: MX-5 Gr.4, Atenza Gr.4, RX-7 Gr.3, RX-VISION Gr.3

McLaren: MP4-12C Gr.4, 650S GT3, (F1 GTR in Gr.1, also P1 GTR in Gr.1?)

Mercedes: A45 Gr.4, SLS AMG Gr.3, AMG GT3

Mini: Cooper Gr.4, Cooper Gr.3?

Mitsubishi: Lancer EVO Gr.4, Lancer EVO Gr.3

Nissan: 370Z Gr.4, GT-R GT3

Peugeot: RCZ Gr.4, RCZ Gr.3, Vision GT Gr.3

Porsche: Cayman S (N400?), Cayman GT4, 911 RSR

Renault Sport: Megane Gr.4, Megane Trophy Gr.4, RS.01 GT3

Subaru: BRZ Gr.4, WRX Gr.3

Toyota: GT86 Gr.4, Supra Gr.3

Volkswagen: Golf Gr.4, Scirocco Gr.4, Beetle Gr.3

 

[05XR8]

There's a thread dedicated to this in the GT7 forum. I'm sure it's been brought up a host of times in GT Sport.

We have to remember, many of the real GT4 cars, while GT Sport was in development, were in concept/being developed/just debuted/not even created stages.

The Gr.4 Vantage is based from the Vantage GT4 2010 gentlemen race car

The Camaro GT4.R, had just been offered for sale(around September. 2017) when GTS debuted. A model built by privateers from 2013(?), had been running in the GT4 European Series.

Another weird one, is the Camaro RM we had in GT6. THere was a real "RM" made in the form of the Camaro GS.

Again, PD maybe had thought or were requested by Chevy, to have the C7 showcased in N/Gr.4/Gr.3 guises.

Mustang GT4 was just revealed in 2017.

Now, a Civic Gr.4 would make sense. However, for whatever reason, the NSx debuted for 2017. It would also make sense for PD to showcase that car in all variations(N600, Gr.4, Gr.B, Gr.3, Gr.2). That may have been a request by Honda. A Civic BTCC-type racer, would have been closer to the TT Cup car, in spec.

There was an MX-5 GT4 in the BRitish GT series. Why PD didn't make a new MX-5 ND version? I don't know. It might have been the same performance as the Alfa 4C. Why also didn't PD use the MX-5 TC and spec that to Gr.4? The Gr.4 86, is NA and making 360hp. Easy to bump up the power.

Citroen had a WTCC car from about 2014. Again, no understanding as to why they add the Audi Cup car and not this.

As for Bugatti and VW, we just don't know why or how PD came to make those choices. TCR had just debuted in 2015. May have been too late to try and get a car licenced. Specifically, the Golf TCR. Not sure aboput the TT Cup being the right choice either. It was classed as GT4 spec, but the same way PD made cars like the M4 & Mustang, which are the only current body style GT4 cars in real life, they could have made an R8 Gr.4(so happens theres a real R8 GT4 that debuted in 2019). That's a case that can be argued as why wasn't it added to GT Sport? We got the 2019 Gr.4 Supra.

 

[MidnightRun85]

There's a thread dedicated to this in the GT7 forum. I'm sure it's been brought up a host of times in GT Sport.

We have to remember, many of the real GT4 cars, while GT Sport was in development, were in concept/being developed/just debuted/not even created stages.

The Gr.4 Vantage is based from the Vantage GT4 2010 gentlemen race car

The Camaro GT4.R, had just been offered for sale(around September. 2017) when GTS debuted. A model built by privateers from 2013(?), had been running in the GT4 European Series.

Another weird one, is the Camaro RM we had in GT6. THere was a real "RM" made in the form of the Camaro GS.

Again, PD maybe had thought or were requested by Chevy, to have the C7 showcased in N/Gr.4/Gr.3 guises.

Mustang GT4 was just revealed in 2017.

Now, a Civic Gr.4 would make sense. However, for whatever reason, the NSx debuted for 2017. It would also make sense for PD to showcase that car in all variations(N600, Gr.4, Gr.B, Gr.3, Gr.2). That may have been a request by Honda. A Civic BTCC-type racer, would have been closer to the TT Cup car, in spec.

There was an MX-5 GT4 in the BRitish GT series. Why PD didn't make a new MX-5 ND version? I don't know. It might have been the same performance as the Alfa 4C. Why also didn't PD use the MX-5 TC and spec that to Gr.4? The Gr.4 86, is NA and making 360hp. Easy to bump up the power.

Citroen had a WTCC car from about 2014. Again, no understanding as to why they add the Audi Cup car and not this.

As for Bugatti and VW, we just don't know why or how PD came to make those choices. TCR had just debuted in 2015. May have been too late to try and get a car licenced. Specifically, the Golf TCR. Not sure aboput the TT Cup being the right choice either. It was classed as GT4 spec, but the same way PD made cars like the M4 & Mustang, which are the only current body style GT4 cars in real life, they could have made an R8 Gr.4(so happens theres a real R8 GT4 that debuted in 2019). That's a case that can be argued as why wasn't it added to GT Sport? We got the 2019 Gr.4 Supra.

Some very valid points there. I guess the manufacturers do have some say in the car use within the game, so can define things like an NSX rally car and Gr.4, which make little sense to me! It's still quite baffling how some of the car choices were made.

Another car that would have been awesome would be the Alpine A110, if they'd made a Gr.3 and Gr.4 of that. Something along the lines of the Alfa 4C, only French.

 

[anthonyfa18]

i would love to see Honda get a GR.4 Civic TCR https://hpd.honda.com/Articles/Touring/TCR

or Even a HPD Honda Civic FK8 TC https://hpd.honda.com/Articles/Touring/TypeR

Also i hope for Acura to comeback to Grand Turismo with a GR.4 , GR.3 and GR.1

 

[MIE1992]

I'd say there's a lot of potential for all major racing classes, both for more automakers (like the aforementioned Acura that a post before me mentions) and more real-world classes within the classes. For example, we could see BMW, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bentley, and Chevrolet get Gr.1 representation, respectively with the V12 LMR, the Countach QVX (or the VGT, as it does seem to look like it'd fit well in there), the future Hypercar entry, the Speed 8, and the Corvette C7 DPi. We could also see additional options within a class. So for example, Nissan and Mazda could each get another modern Gr.1 car with their respective DPi racers.

Even LMP2 could allow some more automakers into Gr.1, like Ginetta, Alpine, MG, and Lotus. We could even cheat a bit and give TVR a Gr.1 car through that Rebellion racer. Indeed, in the promotional video for GT Sport that reviews the classes, Gr.1 is mostly defined as being for sports prototypes, without namedropping any specific class, such as LMP1 nor Group C.

I honestly think it's good for GT to have a wide variety of cars in each class - such as mid-90s and late 00s/early 10s GT1 cars going into Gr.3 - as long as we get more events that limit the eligible cars, like the Daily Races that limited racers to using the Group C cars within Gr.1. I also would like to see more automakers and/or classes in the Manufacturers Series - KTM seems like an easy choice, as they have the X-Bow GT4 and the GTX.

Now, I could repeat myself again, reciting previous posts I've made on this - including the idea of new classes like a "Gr.1V," "Gr.3V," "Gr.A," and Gr.C," but why don't we talk about Gr.B for a change? I think it's very odd that many actual Group B cars seen in prior games were absent from GT Sport's Gr.B, but I really hope they return in GT7, such as the Renault 5 Maxi Turbo, the Peugeot 205 T16, the Mitsubishi Starion 4WD, and the Lancia Delta S4. That's before we get into potential new additions to Gr.B, like the Daihatsu Charade, or Citroen's car. I also find it interesting that the Pikes Peak-spec Audi Quattro made it into GTS, but not the actual Group B-spec Quattro. Perhaps both could return in GT7, though I had heard that after Group B was banned IRL, many cars would go on to Pikes Peak, such as the aforementioned Audi Quattro. That said, I really do hope we get the Group B-spec Audi Quattro alongside the Pikes Peak version.

I also do propose that there be a "Gr.A" for post-Group B rally cars, like the Ford Focus or Citroen C4 that we saw in the PS3 era, as well as a "Gr.C" for pre-Group B rally cars, like the Lancia Stratos.

The other thing I wanna mention is Gr.2. I really hope we get representation from Toyota in there, whether it's through a JGTC/Super GT A80 Supra, a newer A90 Supra, or even both. I also would greatly appreciate it if we could get four automakers from DTMasters - BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Aston Martin. Oh, and I suppose Opel could come along, too.

I remain ever-curious of how JGTC GT500 cars will be categorized, though I'd imagine they'll get inserted into Gr.2. But I'm especially curious about the late-90s GT1 cars, like the Nissan R390, or the Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR. It'll be especially interesting when we factor in the McLaren F1 GTR Longtail, as the non-longtail version is in Gr.3. These late-90s GT1 cars could very well go into Gr.2, as we don't know if Gr.2 is necessarily defined as being for silhouette racers with complex aero kits, like Super GT GT500 and DTMasters. They could also go into Gr.1, as some cars that were in this class later competed as prototypes, the most obvious being the Toyota TS020, but also the Panoz Esperante GTR-1, which later became the Panoz GTP, and did indeed race as a prototype.

Of course, some classes seem more obvious, like LMP900, LMGTP, DPi, WEC Hypercar, and LMDh all being clear fits for Gr.1. If we include models that didn't race, even the Alfa Romeo SE048SP could offer that automaker representation in Gr.1. Heck, we already have the Jaguar XJ13, which was in a similar boat decades earlier, as it too never raced. (Though I would propose a "Gr.1V" for vintage prototypes, including the aforementioned XJ13, as well as the Ferrari 330 P4 and the Ford Mk.IV, perhaps alongside other potential additions, like the famed Ford GT40 Mk.II that won the LM24 in 1966.)

 

[MidnightRun85]

I'd say there's a lot of potential for all major racing classes, both for more automakers (like the aforementioned Acura that a post before me mentions) and more real-world classes within the classes. For example, we could see BMW, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bentley, and Chevrolet get Gr.1 representation, respectively with the V12 LMR, the Countach QVX (or the VGT, as it does seem to look like it'd fit well in there), the future Hypercar entry, the Speed 8, and the Corvette C7 DPi. We could also see additional options within a class. So for example, Nissan and Mazda could each get another modern Gr.1 car with their respective DPi racers.

Even LMP2 could allow some more automakers into Gr.1, like Ginetta, Alpine, MG, and Lotus. We could even cheat a bit and give TVR a Gr.1 car through that Rebellion racer. Indeed, in the promotional video for GT Sport that reviews the classes, Gr.1 is mostly defined as being for sports prototypes, without namedropping any specific class, such as LMP1 nor Group C.

I honestly think it's good for GT to have a wide variety of cars in each class - such as mid-90s and late 00s/early 10s GT1 cars going into Gr.3 - as long as we get more events that limit the eligible cars, like the Daily Races that limited racers to using the Group C cars within Gr.1. I also would like to see more automakers and/or classes in the Manufacturers Series - KTM seems like an easy choice, as they have the X-Bow GT4 and the GTX.

Now, I could repeat myself again, reciting previous posts I've made on this - including the idea of new classes like a "Gr.1V," "Gr.3V," "Gr.A," and Gr.C," but why don't we talk about Gr.B for a change? I think it's very odd that many actual Group B cars seen in prior games were absent from GT Sport's Gr.B, but I really hope they return in GT7, such as the Renault 5 Maxi Turbo, the Peugeot 205 T16, the Mitsubishi Starion 4WD, and the Lancia Delta S4. That's before we get into potential new additions to Gr.B, like the Daihatsu Charade, or Citroen's car. I also find it interesting that the Pikes Peak-spec Audi Quattro made it into GTS, but not the actual Group B-spec Quattro. Perhaps both could return in GT7, though I had heard that after Group B was banned IRL, many cars would go on to Pikes Peak, such as the aforementioned Audi Quattro. That said, I really do hope we get the Group B-spec Audi Quattro alongside the Pikes Peak version.

I also do propose that there be a "Gr.A" for post-Group B rally cars, like the Ford Focus or Citroen C4 that we saw in the PS3 era, as well as a "Gr.C" for pre-Group B rally cars, like the Lancia Stratos.

The other thing I wanna mention is Gr.2. I really hope we get representation from Toyota in there, whether it's through a JGTC/Super GT A80 Supra, a newer A90 Supra, or even both. I also would greatly appreciate it if we could get four automakers from DTMasters - BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Aston Martin. Oh, and I suppose Opel could come along, too.

I remain ever-curious of how JGTC GT500 cars will be categorized, though I'd imagine they'll get inserted into Gr.2. But I'm especially curious about the late-90s GT1 cars, like the Nissan R390, or the Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR. It'll be especially interesting when we factor in the McLaren F1 GTR Longtail, as the non-longtail version is in Gr.3. These late-90s GT1 cars could very well go into Gr.2, as we don't know if Gr.2 is necessarily defined as being for silhouette racers with complex aero kits, like Super GT GT500 and DTMasters. They could also go into Gr.1, as some cars that were in this class later competed as prototypes, the most obvious being the Toyota TS020, but also the Panoz Esperante GTR-1, which later became the Panoz GTP, and did indeed race as a prototype.

Of course, some classes seem more obvious, like LMP900, LMGTP, DPi, WEC Hypercar, and LMDh all being clear fits for Gr.1. If we include models that didn't race, even the Alfa Romeo SE048SP could offer that automaker representation in Gr.1. Heck, we already have the Jaguar XJ13, which was in a similar boat decades earlier, as it too never raced. (Though I would propose a "Gr.1V" for vintage prototypes, including the aforementioned XJ13, as well as the Ferrari 330 P4 and the Ford Mk.IV, perhaps alongside other potential additions, like the famed Ford GT40 Mk.II that won the LM24 in 1966.)

I think your post highlights the complexity of including so many classes of true race cars. For GT Sport, which was a departure from the original series intended to simplify the car selection and focus on e-racing, having such a complex breakdown of class divisions probably just would have made the online racing more complex to administer and manage. But I so agree it would be awesome to see a lot more of those classes and cars included in GT7.

Rally is massively underrepresented in this game. I guess they decided there are better rally games so they focused on their bread and butter race formats. Gr.B cars in this game are all very weird indeed. Mustang, NSX and GT-R rally cars?! What??

I just wish they had made more use of the N group cars into Gr.3 and 4 and pulled some into N categories.

It also might have been an idea to get the Zonda and P1 into Gr.1 so they could have more of a purpose.

 

[MIE1992]

It also might have been an idea to get the Zonda and P1 into Gr.1 so they could have more of a purpose.

I think it's better to keep track-only cars in Gr.X, such as the Zonda R and P1 GTR like you mention, but also the Aston Martin Vulcan. Especially if they can use DRS, and I believe the P1 GTR can use it. I think that'd be best, where cars that aren't street-legal nor race cars go into Gr.X, including some concepts like the Honda 2&4.

That said, I'd try to create some new classes to avoid having clearly similar vehicles in Gr.X, like a group for vintage prototypes like the Jaguar XJ13, but also a group for vintage grand tourers like the Shelby Daytona Coupe. I also would create a "Gr.SF" for any and all Super Formula vehicles, whether it's one of the SF19 cars, or another model that's added to the series. Either that, or I'd keep both SF19 cars in Gr.X, but allow both models in a given event, and seldom just one at a time.

 

[tankuroded]

Bugatti has a planned Gr.3 car, but it didn't seem to go far beyond planning stages (remember the original #imaginEBugatti marketing were loaded with references to Le Mans so I guess PD made it a Gr.1 to fulfill hypercar fantasies):

Mustang, NSX and GT-R rally cars?! What??

For NSX and GT-R, I imagine because of them being 4WD (and in case of NSX, needing a mid-engine rally car representation).

 

[MidnightRun85]

I think it's better to keep track-only cars in Gr.X, such as the Zonda R and P1 GTR like you mention, but also the Aston Martin Vulcan. Especially if they can use DRS, and I believe the P1 GTR can use it. I think that'd be best, where cars that aren't street-legal nor race cars go into Gr.X, including some concepts like the Honda 2&4.

That said, I'd try to create some new classes to avoid having clearly similar vehicles in Gr.X, like a group for vintage prototypes like the Jaguar XJ13, but also a group for vintage grand tourers like the Shelby Daytona Coupe. I also would create a "Gr.SF" for any and all Super Formula vehicles, whether it's one of the SF19 cars, or another model that's added to the series. Either that, or I'd keep both SF19 cars in Gr.X, but allow both models in a given event, and seldom just one at a time.

Gr.X is just too wide. The Daihatsu Vision GT is in it, and its utter *****. Then you have things like the super formula, the red bull cars, etc. There's no way to make a fair race by class limitations with Gr.X, which is annoying, aside from making it a one-make race.

 

[05XR8]

Another odd GR.3 option, is the Ford GT. PD saw fit to keep adding cars for BMW and Toyota and McLaren and Mazda and Lexus and Peugeot and Renault. Why not add a then new Ford GT '17 GR.3? Took PD long enough to add the N class car to the list. The LMGTE, is seen in the Ford Museum pics.

The X-Bow is a no-brainer. Once the GT4 was created, that's a car that could have been added. Now, I recall a mentioning of only a certain amount of licenced cars can be in one game. Such as an F1 car.
We got one real life GT4 car in the Camyman Clubsport. So, I don't know if the X-Bow would breach such a stipulation.

Anyway, moving on to the GT7 thread, we'll see what PD have updated, if any, as far as manufacturer choices.

 

[MidnightRun85]

Another odd GR.3 option, is the Ford GT. PD saw fit to keep adding cars for BMW and Toyota and McLaren and Mazda and Lexus and Peugeot and Renault. Why not add a then new Ford GT '17 GR.3? Took PD long enough to add the N class car to the list. The LMGTE, is seen in the Ford Museum pics.

The X-Bow is a no-brainer. Once the GT4 was created, that's a car that could have been added. Now, I recall a mentioning of only a certain amount of licenced cars can be in one game. Such as an F1 car.
We got one real life GT4 car in the Camyman Clubsport. So, I don't know if the X-Bow would breach such a stipulation.

Anyway, moving on to the GT7 thread, we'll see what PD have updated, if any, as far as manufacturer choices.

Definitely an odd choice. Same with the McLaren F1 which is more of a Gr.1.5, and the Aston DBR9.

Got a link to the GT7 thread?

 

[MIE1992]

Gr.X is just too wide. The Daihatsu Vision GT is in it, and its utter *****. Then you have things like the super formula, the red bull cars, etc. There's no way to make a fair race by class limitations with Gr.X, which is annoying, aside from making it a one-make race.

I think that's exactly the point. Gr.X is not meant to be a class where the included vehicles are meant to race alongside each other like the other classes. Rather, each vehicle in Gr.X is meant to be raced within a one-make event, excluding the two SF19 models. (You don't really expect a Mercedes-AMG W08 to compete with a Renault R8 Gordini, do you?) In that case, I'd always permit both SF19 models to be used in events that focus on the SF19 in general, unless it's some sort of event that focuses on either brand - namely Honda or Toyota.

On that note, given that Toyota is a partner of Gran Turismo, I could see there being a special series of Toyota-focused events, where you drive various modern Toyota models, like the GR Supra and GR Yaris, the Toyota-engined SF19, and the TS050 to name some - or, instead of that last one, the GR010, if it's added to GT7. You could move through the classes, with the new GR Supra GT500 being the Gr.2 car, the TS050/GR010 being the Gr.1 machine, and the. In this regard, it could be more specifically focused on the GR label of Toyota, rather than Toyota in general. Indeed, the Toyota-engined SF19 does have a GR sticker on it. So if there were an event specifically focusing on the GR label, here's what cars I'd potentially feature:

-GR Yaris
-GR Supra
-Possibly the GR 86, if it's in GT7 - though if not, the 86 GRMN could be a good substitute.
-GR Supra GT4, as I hope for the Gr.4 Supra A90 in GTS to be entirely replaced with the formal GT4 machine, especially since the cockpit for the former is the same as the road car.
-GR Supra GT500
-GR010, or the TS050 if the GR010 doesn't make it in.
-SF19 with the Toyota engine

And who knows, maybe there are other cars with the GR or GRMN label that could be featured. I think there was even a Prius GR. As for a Gr.3 car, maybe we could stretch things a little, and use the Lexus LF-A that was used by the team in the Nurburgring 24h.

But I think I'm getting a bit side-tracked. I would definitely introduce new classes for those historic race cars to fit into, especially for vintage prototypes and vintage grand tourers. Ideally, between those two classes, many cars would be removed from Gr.X and placed into these new ones, where they can race alongside similar cars that also were formerly in Gr.X. Meanwhile, I would also move the Aston Martin Vulcan into Gr.X, as I can't help but to wonder if its placement in the N-Series is related to why its brakes are so terrible. Besides, I feel like a car that isn't street legal like the Vulcan doesn't really belong in the N-Series, and would better fit alongside the Zonda R and P1 GTR in Gr.X. That said, I fully expect that if the Zonda F and/or P1 are added, then they'd be added to the N-Series, as they are street-legal. And I could've sworn that I heard that the N-Series was officially defined by street-legal cars, even if they've been tuned up or made in very limited numbers, with the Mazda Roadster Touring Car and RE Amemiya RX-7 being examples of the former, and the Lamborghini Miura P400 Prototype being an example of the latter. (Though I do hope we get a more mass-produced version of the Miura, so we don't have to spend over 10 million credits to drive a Miura, haha! Maybe the Miura SV? Hey, we already have had something similar with the Countach, where we have the 25th Anniversary Edition, which funny enough was made in higher numbers than the original Countach that's also available!)

 

[05XR8]

Definitely an odd choice. Same with the McLaren F1 which is more of a Gr.1.5, and the Aston DBR9.

Got a link to the GT7 thread?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/revised-group-3-and-4-cars.396115/

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/what-new-gr3-and-gr4-cars-should-they-add.374534/

 

[tankuroded]

Same with the McLaren F1 which is more of a Gr.1.5, and the Aston DBR9.

Worth noting the F1 GTR that's in the game is a short-tail one and in 1995 BPR GT1 wasn't yet a near-prototype class, so I disagree with your assessment with it being a "Gr.1.5" car.

 

[MidnightRun85]

Worth noting the F1 GTR that's in the game is a short-tail one and in 1995 BPR GT1 wasn't yet a near-prototype class, so I disagree with your assessment with it being a "Gr.1.5" car.

Fair call. Its definitely beyond a GT3 though, as is the DBR9 GT1. But I guess that's where they just tweak its performance so it fits within the Gr.3 category...

 

[MIE1992]

Fair call. Its definitely beyond a GT3 though, as is the DBR9 GT1. But I guess that's where they just tweak its performance so it fits within the Gr.3 category...

I don't personally mind, as these two open up a possible precedent for more similar vehicles to be put into Gr.3, like the Maserati MC12, the Saleen S7-R, or some of those other mid-90s racers, like the Toyota Supra LM, the Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33) LM, the Bugatti EB110, or even the Sard MC8R.

I know this is a bit off-track, but I'd love more cars from various tuners, especially race cars by said tuners. There's the aforementioned Sard MC8R, but I think there have been others, right? Like the Super GT300-spec Autobacs Garaiya could return, alongside the road car. And that's before we get into other tuners - both in-house and otherwise, like Tommykaira, TRD, Nismo, Autech, Mine's...

Ah, but I digress. I would frankly be shocked if we don't get an expansion of Gr.2 by way of modern DTM racers, namely those from Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz - especially since I recall those cars racing alongside actual Super GT500 cars recently. I also hope for race cars from more obscure automakers, both returning from prior GT games and those that'd be new to the franchise. For one example, Ginetta seems like it has at least a potential Gr.4 car, and perhaps a Gr.3 one as well. The same applies to Maserati, which may not be obscure, but still only has the GranTurismo for representation in GT. Then there's stuff like the Gillet Vertigo, which could be placed in Gr.3, since I recall it being a GT2 racer. GT2 did precede GTE, and we already have at least one GTE racer in Gr.3 with the Porsche 911 RSR. Also within GT2 were racers like those from Panoz, Spyker, and I think TVR as well.

Heck, even Dome could return, not only with the Zero road car, but also with the S102 as a Gr.1 racer.

 

[MidnightRun85]

I don't personally mind, as these two open up a possible precedent for more similar vehicles to be put into Gr.3, like the Maserati MC12, the Saleen S7-R, or some of those other mid-90s racers, like the Toyota Supra LM, the Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33) LM, the Bugatti EB110, or even the Sard MC8R.

I know this is a bit off-track, but I'd love more cars from various tuners, especially race cars by said tuners. There's the aforementioned Sard MC8R, but I think there have been others, right? Like the Super GT300-spec Autobacs Garaiya could return, alongside the road car. And that's before we get into other tuners - both in-house and otherwise, like Tommykaira, TRD, Nismo, Autech, Mine's...

Ah, but I digress. I would frankly be shocked if we don't get an expansion of Gr.2 by way of modern DTM racers, namely those from Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz - especially since I recall those cars racing alongside actual Super GT500 cars recently. I also hope for race cars from more obscure automakers, both returning from prior GT games and those that'd be new to the franchise. For one example, Ginetta seems like it has at least a potential Gr.4 car, and perhaps a Gr.3 one as well. The same applies to Maserati, which may not be obscure, but still only has the GranTurismo for representation in GT. Then there's stuff like the Gillet Vertigo, which could be placed in Gr.3, since I recall it being a GT2 racer. GT2 did precede GTE, and we already have at least one GTE racer in Gr.3 with the Porsche 911 RSR. Also within GT2 were racers like those from Panoz, Spyker, and I think TVR as well.

Heck, even Dome could return, not only with the Zero road car, but also with the S102 as a Gr.1 racer.

I just hope they don't make do the same thing with repeating a car through multiple categories when it doesn't really belong in those categories (like the NSX, Mustang and GT-R in Gr.B, and the Veyron in Gr.4).

 

[MIE1992]

I just hope they don't make do the same thing with repeating a car through multiple categories when it doesn't really belong in those categories (like the NSX, Mustang and GT-R in Gr.B, and the Veyron in Gr.4).

I agree, but I also think that GT7 should bring back what we already had in GTS, and then build on it. So for example, for Gr.B, the Ford and Nissan could get a new option respectively with the RS200 and the 240RS rally cars. I think some players will still find the idea of a GT-R R35 rally car interesting, and I don't think PD should throw away the work they've done with those rally cars. But like a lot of the other groups, I do believe in expanding them with additional options from across time, as well as potential VGT projects that would fit into a given group.

On that note, the Lamborghini VGT's shape and reported power figure make it seem like a nice fit for Gr.1, and it could be neat to see it alongside the Group C-era Countach QVX, offering Lamborghini two Gr.1 cars. I was also going to say that Ferrari could have a Gr.1 car via the 333SP, but perhaps we could just wait for a future title - or GT7 update - to include Ferrari's Hypercar entry.

Similarly, I do hope we get a TCR-spec Hyundai model, potentially for Gr.4. Honestly, Hyundai feels so neglected - here's hoping the Veloster N will be in GT7, and maybe even one of the older Tiburon models!

 

[MidnightRun85]

It'll be interesting to see how much rally there is in the next release. I loved rally in GT2, but it seems to have reduced over the evolution of the game. The Ford Escort and Hyundai Accent were great rally cars.

On the Hyundai front, it would be nice to see the i30N hot hatch they released to take on the Golf, RS Clio, etc.