PD... make eVs' use their battery!!!

[rex1825]

...I know it is hard since they wouldn't last long, but at least give us an option to use eVs' as standard cars, there are 3 of them now, BMW i3, Tesla Model S P85+ and Porsche Taycan Turbo S.

There is mechanics in game already, LMP1 Hybrids for example have it, and can use it, and one feels when eV part dies out.
Give an option for eVs' to be part of the standard car lineup... Gr.X was supposed to be prototypes, none of those tree are prototypes anymore. They are in groups N200 for BMW i3, N500 for Tesla Model S P85+, and N800 for Porsche Taycan Turbo S.

Also give us a way to fiddle with gearbox and diff... there is no way (if any car can have it) these 3 can't.

This needs to be addressed ASAP!

 

[SUPRASTAR0003]

They are in groups N200 for BMW i3, N500 for Tesla Model S P85+, and N800 for Porsche Taycan Turbo S.

Also give us a way to fiddle with gearbox and diff... there is no way (if any car can have it) these 3 can't.

This needs to be addressed ASAP!

They’re are in Gr.X because they have no gears.

 

[Racer93]

They’re are in Gr.X because they have no gears.

Actually, I believe the Taycan has 2 gears.

 

[RACECAR]

...I know it is hard since they wouldn't last long, but at least give us an option to use eVs' as standard cars, there are 3 of them now, BMW i3, Tesla Model S P85+ and Porsche Taycan Turbo S.

They are modelled to work exactly as they are in real life, therefore they can't be made to be standard petrol cars. What engines would they even use instead?

There is mechanics in game already, LMP1 Hybrids for example have it, and can use it, and one feels when eV part dies out.

That's kinda the key here: They are Hybrids, designed specifically to use both an conventional engine and an electric source of some kind (Flywheel, Batteries, Compacitors, etc). The same goes for the road going 2017 Honda NSX. The All-Electric cars you mention are, what else, All electric. Their entire drivetrain functions on that.

 

[FoRiZon]

Also:

They are in groups N200 for BMW i3, N500 for Tesla Model S P85+, and N800 for Porsche Taycan Turbo S.

Not going to happen since electric cars behave way differently than petrol cars, mainly being accelerates quickly but terrible top speed amongst others.

Separate class E rather than existing class N is possible.

 

[rex1825]

@SUPRASTAR0003 they have gears, i3 and Model S have 1 gear drive, while Taycan has 1 gear front, 2 gears rear.
BTW, so if PD brings Regera into the game, it'll be in Gr.X considering it has 1 gear only?!

@RACECAR they are standard cars, just instead of petrol or diesel or some other fuel, they use electricity... but they are standard cars as any other car is. And no one said anything about changing engines lol, I just said PD needs to enable battery drain on those cars (as it was in GT5/6)!
Not sure what you wanted to say with second answer TBH...

@FoRiZon same goes for diesels, great accel, but no top end, yet we are getting more and more of those in game.
...whole Grouping system in GTS is flawed, but PD should put those in their respective N groups, regardless of fast 0-100 and low top ends...

 

[RACECAR]

@RACECAR they are standard cars, just instead of petrol or diesel or some other fuel, they use electricity... but they are standard cars as any other car is. And no one said anything about changing engines lol, I just said PD needs to enable battery drain on those cars (as it was in GT5/6)!
Not sure what you wanted to say with second answer TBH...

I was under the impression by standard (and from you mentioning messing with the gears), you meant making them petrol cars. As for the second answer, you used those Hybrids as examples of using their Batteries which again made me assume by having the option of making them "Standard", making them work without the drivetrain they went meant to use in the first place. I'm more then likely misunderstanding your use of standard.

However, the point I tried to convey is the time it takes to charge these cars just wouldn't work in a racing scenario. The Hybrids work the way they do because they have an onboard regeneration system, which doesn't need an exteral source of recharging like those three do.

 

[FoRiZon]

@FoRiZon same goes for diesels, great accel, but no top end, yet we are getting more and more of those in game

Im sorry, what?! The electric cars are in the whole, whole different league of difference when compared to diesel cars.

I let a Youtube video does the explanations.


P.S.: There's a reason why Formula E races is on tight city tracks, not actual racetracks like any other formulas including F3 and even F4.

 

[eran0004]

Gr.X was supposed to be prototypes

Gr.X was never supposed to be prototypes. It’s supposed to be a category for cars that doesn’t fit into any other category.

 

[Hygrade B]

Would be nice to have a full line up of EV and use them in A race like fourmla E & I-pace

 

[OJT6627]

Also give us a way to fiddle with gearbox and diff... there is no way (if any car can have it) these 3 can't.

I am no gearbox expert, but electric cars use planetary gears as opposed to conventional gear setup on ICE cars. You can't just adjust the gears on them like you can in regular racing gearbox nor can you swap such gearbox on the eV cars that are in the game, since the whole drivetrain concept is different

 

[KepleroGT]

Gr.X was never supposed to be prototypes. It’s supposed to be a category for cars that doesn’t fit into any other category.

Then why was Gr.2 created? Is it difficult to put electric cars in Gr.E and 80's LMPs in Gr.C?

 

[talhaONE]

Also:

Not going to happen since electric cars behave way differently than petrol cars, mainly being accelerates quickly but terrible top speed amongst others.

Uhh no. The way they have terrible top speeds because they very short transmission settings that cant be changed. If we could adjust their gearbox, those electric cars could have much more top speeds without sacrificing their acceleration.

Ev cars isnt really much different then petrol cars. The only difference is electric motors usually produce same horsepower and torque in all rpm ranges. Because of that electric cars usually dont need more then 1 gear.

Pd put them on Gr.x class because they dont want to bother balancing them against regular petrol cars. They dont even bother to balance N class cars so they just put Ev cars to Gr.X and call it the day. If they wanted, Ev cars can be easily bopped against N class cars with adjustable gearbox of course.

 

[eran0004]

Then why was Gr.2 created? Is it difficult to put electric cars in Gr.E and 80's LMPs in Gr.C?

Gr.2 was created because they needed a category for GT500 cars.

I can’t imagine that it’s difficult to create new groups. The reason why there is no Gr.E or Gr.C is probably because they haven’t seen a need for such groups.

 

[Cerebral303]

So what would be wrong with having electric cars use up their charge and then limp to the pits like when you run out of fuel in petrol/diesel cars?
(other than unrealistic charging time when you get there, but then these are not real cars, the petrol isn't real, the electric isn't real, simulation liberties are taken with 20x tyre wear etc so why not here with charge time?)

 

[FoRiZon]

Uhh no. The way they have terrible top speeds because they very short transmission settings that cant be changed. If we could adjust their gearbox, those electric cars could have much more top speeds without sacrificing their acceleration.

Uh no. This guy above you explains it better:

I am no gearbox expert, but electric cars use planetary gears as opposed to conventional gear setup on ICE cars. You can't just adjust the gears on them like you can in regular racing gearbox nor can you swap such gearbox on the eV cars that are in the game, since the whole drivetrain concept is different

Also this video starting at 2:33 showing how much transmission change in GTSport affects top speed (hint: none, if not minuscule at best):


As I was saying, electric cars drop off in power so quickly as the speed goes up compared to petrol. And most if not all electric cars provides transmission that has a setup that has considerably more top speed than the electric drivetrain can handle.

 

[eran0004]

Uhh no. The way they have terrible top speeds because they very short transmission settings that cant be changed. If we could adjust their gearbox, those electric cars could have much more top speeds without sacrificing their acceleration.

Ev cars isnt really much different then petrol cars. The only difference is electric motors usually produce same horsepower and torque in all rpm ranges. Because of that electric cars usually dont need more then 1 gear.

A smaller gear ratio would (probably) increase top speed, but it would do so on the expense of acceleration. An electric motor typically has a range where it produces constant torque, followed by a range with constant power and finally a range where both drops. No engine can produce constant torque AND constant power over the same range of speed, because that contradicts the definition of power.

Here is an example comparing the wheel torque and top speed of two electric cars with different gear ratios:

The vertical axis is wheel torque, while the horizontal is wheel speed. The units are irrelevant, as this is just to illustrate the principle. In this example the blue car has a gear ratio of 1:1, while the yellow car has a gear ratio of 2:1. At low speeds, between 0 and 15, the yellow car produces constant torque. From 15 to 50 (point B) it produces constant power and beyond point B the power drops.

The blue car produces constant torque between 0 and point A, then constant power from A to C and then the power drops.

Both cars have the exact same motor, the only difference between the cars is the gear ratio.

From 0 to point A, the yellow car produces more wheel torque than the blue car, which means better acceleration (provided that the tyres have enough grip). Between A and B they produce the same amount of wheel torque and the acceleration is identical. From point B the blue car produces more wheel torque than the yellow one.

The yellow car reaches a top speed of just over 70 (where the yellow line meets the drag curve), while the blue car reaches around 110.

So while the blue car got a higher top speed thanks to the smaller gear ratio, it did so by sacrificing acceleration at low speed.

 

[MIE1992]

At any rate, I’d imagine that EVs would require a system that would either come in a notable update, or the next game. It could easily take a while for an EV to refuel compared to a non-EV, and I don’t even think it’d refuel the same way at all, when in the pits. My idea would be to simply have the battery get consumed without a way to recharge it, and between the range of a given EV, the fuel consumption rates, and race lengths, an EV would always be able to finish. But if it can’t - such as by fiddling with the race settings in a custom race - then you’d be SOL if you run out of power.

But with the above in mind, I would also agree that there could be an N-Series for EVs, and similarly segmented by general power figures.

More recently, I had thought that the N-Series was more for modified cars (as all cars can be equipped with various full customize parts, adjust their BB/TCS/FM, and change their power/weight, including via BoP) rather than stock-spec vehicles, so an N-Series for EVs would be similar in effect. It’d especially be nice if other EVs from prior games returned, like the Mitsubishi i-MiEV, Nissan Leaf, the older Tesla Roadster, or the Fisker Karma. Meanwhile, hybrids could stay in the N-Series, as one could see with the new NSX, or the Honda Fit hybrid.

There could even be other EVs added, like if there were any all-electric Toyota Prius models, the newer versions of the Nissan Leaf and/or Tesla Roaster, or the Chevrolet Bolt/Spark/Volt.

I’m also unsure if this new class series would just be for electric vehicles, or more so alternatively-fueled cars in general, such as the Toyota Mirai and Honda Clarity. But speaking of the Nissan Leaf, I bet the Nismo Leaf RC (either or both iterations) could be a good fit for Gr.3.

(EDIT: It looks like the Nismo Leaf RC would be better in Gr.X, as it seems to be an all-electric racer. Still would be neat to have, and could be also joined by the Jaguar i-Pace eTrophy racer as Gr.X cars best for one-makes - alongside the various formula cars - rather than being placed in Gr.X as a “wastebin” class.)

 

[rex1825]

I am no gearbox expert, but electric cars use planetary gears as opposed to conventional gear setup on ICE cars. You can't just adjust the gears on them like you can in regular racing gearbox nor can you swap such gearbox on the eV cars that are in the game, since the whole drivetrain concept is different

TBH none of the cars have adjustable geaeboxes as in GT and Forza games... It is simply too expencive to do it this way... But cars do have some preset ratios that can be used and mainly fast swapped (counting on getting gearbox out of the car, changing gears and returning it)
Most of the cars today use planetary gesrboxes, because of space.

So, if every possible car in GT (not real life) can have whatever gear ratio, why not on that one stupid gear that eVs' have?

Look at the Assetto Corsa gear setup, and you'll understand how gear ratios are choosen on racing gearboxes, as per in real life...

Gr.2 was created because they needed a category for GT500 cars.

I can’t imagine that it’s difficult to create new groups. The reason why there is no Gr.E or Gr.C is probably because they haven’t seen a need for such groups.

Gr.2 was good until they added old GT500 cars, basically adding cars that have more in common with modern GT3 cars to the modern GT500 lineup... So stupid...

Also Gr.C should be a thing, those old LMPs can't compete with modern ones... Not to mention stupid VGT mix in all of that...

 

[Bloodytears]

Anyway even in gr.X Tesla has maximum much more less than Porsche's minimum, so no practical way to have electric cars race. Not to mention i3.

 

[Chevy Heavy]

I would just be happy with a one make Daily race with the Taycan like they did with the Audi e-tron when it was released. Instead we get a repeat of the Honda S800 which we just had not that long ago. There are so many cars that are under utilized in Sport Mode. Hey PD, variety is the spice of life.

 

[RacingFan1]

GrX = races with the same car for everybody, thats about it

 

[tankuroded]

Gr.2 was created because they needed a category for GT500 cars.

I can’t imagine that it’s difficult to create new groups. The reason why there is no Gr.E or Gr.C is probably because they haven’t seen a need for such groups.

That and Gr.2 was already coded in the game from the very beginning.

 

[rex1825]

That and Gr.2 was already coded in the game from the very beginning.

...how hard is it to put new group in game? Simple, add additional name with identifier into ini file, and use that identifier id on car ini that should be in that group...

 

[Bloodytears]

...how hard is it to put new group in game? Simple, add additional name with identifier into ini file, and use that identifier id on car ini that should be in that group...

I'm pretty certain enough hard to not bother, because it is not first time people complain about categories in video games and even bigger developer like Rockstar don't dare to touch their broken cars groups system made 7 years ago. There is much more than the name, because I'm sure every group physics specific and code depended.

 

[Cerebral303]

Since there are already 10x and 20x tyre and fuel multipliers, why can't EV's use battery and have a multiplier on the charge rates so it's faster?

 

[V1LR-GUE10]

Also:

Not going to happen since electric cars behave way differently than petrol cars, mainly being accelerates quickly but terrible top speed amongst others.

Separate class E rather than existing class N is possible.

The top speed thing is not true. The Challenger and and other older muscle cars have terrible top speed, stock that is. PD can just do the most logically thing. If “Fuel” Consumption is the problem, restrict EV’s if it’s turned on. If not, let them race with other N Class cars.

 

[Nuschel01]

Just make it like FormulaE did. In order to race longer races you‘d have to own multiple same cars to swap them out at a pitstop If you don‘t own for example 3 Taycans you‘re in trouble

 

[rex1825]

@Bloodytears it is simple parameter in ini file that determines the group to which car should belong, and same identifier is used in car ini. There is no difference in physics, if there were, those cars wouldn't be able to race together, since PS4 would need to do twice the calculation job if two groups would race together...

 

[Bloodytears]

@Bloodytears it is simple parameter in ini file that determines the group to which car should belong, and same identifier is used in car ini. There is no difference in physics, if there were, those cars wouldn't be able to race together, since PS4 would need to do twice the calculation job if two groups would race together...

They actually couldn't race together, in other words they in one lobby would race by own rules each. That is what group X is, because I guess if this will be so easy change, at least SF cars could have their separate group, the same with so in use Red Bull and other. From the top, those two mentioned classes couldn't be bop'ed together. Changing their display name isn't the solution, don't you think?