Perfect Shifting?

[neurokinetik]

just shift up as soon as the line hits the red.

Not always! Driving the Nismo 400R I noticed that acceleration was much worse if you ran it up to its 9k redline instead of shifting at 7.5k. Watch how fast the speed climbs as you accelerate and you will see it.

 

[Stune]

Not always! Driving the Nismo 400R I noticed that acceleration was much worse if you ran it up to its 9k redline instead of shifting at 7.5k. Watch how fast the speed climbs as you accelerate and you will see it.

yeah thats probally becouse its peak power was at 6,00rpm or somthing. Its best to know your car well, most cars its best to run it up to the redline but there will allways be some execptions becouse of the way the engine is tuned. i seem to remember most GT games have a diagram showing whaer the power is at what revs for most of the cars this will help you to realise the best shiftpoints

 

[Scaff]

It is saver, cause you don;t ahve to spend time watching the clutch and gear, but can just look over the traffic.

If you know how to drive a manual (IRL) you should not be watching the clutch and gear, changes should be done without thinking about them.

 

[Tuscan UK]

At the risk of looking real stupid (but I wanna learn!), isn't that what the point of torque is? When a car says max torque at, for example, 5,600rpm's, isn't that when you should change gear?

 

[Swift]

If you know how to drive a manual (IRL) you should not be watching the clutch and gear, changes should be done without thinking about them.

Yes, it should become second nature. It's important to know you gear without having to constanly stare at the indicator.

 

[Stune]

At the risk of looking real stupid (but I wanna learn!), isn't that what the point of torque is? When a car says max torque at, for example, 5,600rpm's, isn't that when you should change gear?

Thats a good question, I never really know what torque is in relation to horsepower. If somone could explain exactly what torque is that would be great

 

[fporto_br]

At the risk of looking real stupid (but I wanna learn!), isn't that what the point of torque is? When a car says max torque at, for example, 5,600rpm's, isn't that when you should change gear?

That's almost correct... There is always a gap between maximum power and maximum torque... that's the best place to change gears. Look at the little graph I made below.

It shows the power curve on green and torque curve on blue and their top levels on the dots... Usually, maximum torque comes before maximum power, so, the best place to change gears is between them. The problem is, when power is going up, torque starts to go down, making it harder for the engine to keep its pace. If you force the car to its redline (top of the graph), you are wasting power and torque. If you change gear before maximum torque, the engine will need more time to rev up.

When buying a car, pay attention to power and torque specs. Try to change gears between these maximum numbers and you'll see feel engine running at its optimum range.

Torque is a twisting force about an axis of rotation. Power is the rate at which work is done.

 

[Darts]

So Torque is an very important thing also for the acceleration: the more torque: the better grip and less wheel-spin am i correct?

 

[Porrchris]

You dont have to watch the rpm to see when to shift, after some practise you hear when its time. You drive faster with manuel, because you always have the right gear.

 

[Darts]

You dont have to watch to when to shift, after some practise you hear when its time.

But still its another thing your mind is busy with, also it is just a little bit of busyness, it still makes you lose some concentrating at driving the cr constantly at the perfect lines.

 

[Scaff]

So Torque is an very important thing also for the acceleration: the more torque: the better grip and less wheel-spin am i correct?

Nope, sorry not even close on this one.

Only one thing determines grip and when you will lose it (i.e. when wheel spin starts) and that is the maximum grip level of the tyres.

Almost all cars produce sufficent torque to break the maximum grip levels of road tyres, so controlled delivery of the engines power is vital.

What you right on however is that torque (when compaired to the weight of the car) is a major factor in determining the accelerartion of a car.

A very simple was of looking at it is this.

Horse Power determines top speed (up to a point and then aerodynamic drag makes things interesting) and torque determines how quickly you can get to that speed.

It is of course, far more involved that that, but it is a good starting point.

 

[KSaiyu]

Dart's, learn how to do it in a race with low powered cars. If you practise in free-run, you'll probably get lost when you turn to racing in a manual and have to put more concentrating into driving. I recommend the Vitz series to start out on, and all you have to do when you're beginning to learn downshifting is to downshift to the gear it shows on the indicator, and when you become confident you can judge what is the best gear to downshift to and when.

 

[Izanagi]

But my question still isnt answered, why is manual better than Automatic? on automatic you have no mistkaes and can fully concentarte on driving.

dude u r "Gearbox Challenged!" i know kids who have the same problem....no matter what they do they have trouble with gears....as for me, i HATE automatic....puts me to sleep and i concentrate so much more when i have to constantly be thinking about shifting....makes things so much faster and really challenges you. i would have it no other way tho i understand if u use automatic on a car that only comes with SMG or full Auto. also u can't use your engine as well if u drive auto....cant keep it redlined if u need to cuz the computer does the thinking for u and holding gears using R2 is cheating...another reason im offed by Auto in GT. u cant engine brake using an auto tranny unless u downshift into position 2 or L which is not good for ur engine anyway or ur tranny. bottom line is, since GT gives u gear selector indicators.....USE THEM....thats how i originally learnd manual in GT....then it became natural and i never pay attention anymore....i just know what gear the car needs. practice!

 

[Darts]

I tried to learn it many times, but i just can't do it, i grow up playing F1 games with always automatic transmission on, i just can't change that way of driving, and i get better lap times to good racers wich have always driven manual, cause i was driving much smoother and racing more concentrated, sio i stick to auto, but thnaks anyway.

 

[RobcioPL]

dude u r "Gearbox Challenged!" i know kids who have the same problem....no matter what they do they have trouble with gears....as for me, i HATE automatic....puts me to sleep and i concentrate so much more when i have to constantly be thinking about shifting....makes things so much faster and really challenges you. i would have it no other way tho i understand if u use automatic on a car that only comes with SMG or full Auto. also u can't use your engine as well if u drive auto....cant keep it redlined if u need to cuz the computer does the thinking for u and holding gears using R2 is cheating...another reason im offed by Auto in GT. u cant engine brake using an auto tranny unless u downshift into position 2 or L which is not good for ur engine anyway or ur tranny. bottom line is, since GT gives u gear selector indicators.....USE THEM....thats how i originally learnd manual in GT....then it became natural and i never pay attention anymore....i just know what gear the car needs. practice!

I feel you brotha. The automatic seems so slushy. It seems like it shifts slower, revs lower, and accelarates out of corners slower. Manuel you dont have to think of when to shift. A good driver just knows when to shift. Its just a reaction my fingers do. I love to engine break(in real life it helps your brakes last longer!) I usaully take a car out on a track, beat the living **** out of it, and then i understand the physics of the car.

 

[Izanagi]

well good luck bro....hopefully i'll race u in GT5 online mode (PD willing) one day and we'll see how your auto stands up to my manual!

 

[KSaiyu]

I tried to learn it many times, but i just can't do it, i grow up playing F1 games with always automatic transmission on, i just can't change that way of driving, and i get better lap times to good racers wich have always driven manual, cause i was driving much smoother and racing more concentrated, sio i stick to auto, but thnaks anyway.

Seriously, at least try the Vitz cup like this. I used to think like you, but manual really does make the game more fun and improve your lap times if you use it right.

 

[Darts]

well good luck bro....hopefully i'll race u in GT5 online mode (PD willing) one day and we'll see how your auto stands up to my manual!

Oke, but i will have the smoother lines and the better action reactions when i am overtaking your ass!

 

[Darts]

Seriously, at least try the Vitz cup like this. I used to think like you, but manual really does make the game more fun and improve your lap times if you use it right.

I know, but i ahve tried to do it at TOCA Driver 2 for a month playing 3-4 hours a day, but i just couldn't get the hang of it, not even near my automatic racing.

 

[Gabkicks]

Here's a randome question.. Is ECU tuning in GT4?

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

Just what I was going to say. When you redline turbo cars the turbos loose power.

I haven't heard anything of this before, so I'll just ask this, if I went out for a drift in GT3, I used manual too: better control offcourse, but always when I exit the last corners of midfield with my tuned Silvia, when I shift after that corner, I hear on the replay afterwards...........something like...........the car passes the camera earlier than the car REALLY does, and when it REALLY passes you offcourse hear him pas again, so first a sound like the car passes (fake) and then a sounsd that the car passes again (this time for REAL). Might be a bit confusing, but has anyone noticed this in GT4 yet. It seemd to start when I began manual shifting, anyone???

 

[KSaiyu]

I know, but i ahve tried to do it at TOCA Driver 2 for a month playing 3-4 hours a day, but i just couldn't get the hang of it, not even near my automatic racing.

That's a shame

I guess the only other advice I can give is to look at some of the faster GT4 drivers laps and see how they gear shift, although that wouldn't help you learn I suppose....

 

[Izanagi]

Oke, but i will have the smoother lines and the better action reactions when i am overtaking your ass!

what u talking about i have to react quicker than u cuz i have to do the extra step of: percieve corner, judge brake plus shift point, it takes about 1/20th of a second for me to react and shift, all the while worrying about other stuff like turning in, racing line, make sure my tires keep gripping, and i gotta make sure this whole time that my tach doesnt hit the rev limiter....then i gotta worry about exiting correctly, shifting at the right point, and continuing on....its a little more involved than an auto tranny which skips the whole....oh crap i gotta downshift step. and i have to tell u that my lines r VERY smooth even tho i use the D-pad....im talking hours upon hours of 1 on 1 time: 1 car, 1 track, 20-50 laps depending on how i feel....along with different setups, etc. Ive used most of the cars in GT3 and 2 extensively learning how each reacts on each track....some say i have no life....others say im an addict....but in any case....i can tell u that unless i misjudge something in my drawn out process at the beginning of my post...u WILL NOT overtake me....not in grip driving. then again, i really dont know how good u r either....im basing it on the fact that i kill everyone that used to destroy me when i first started playing GT. but no more arguing and big talk....we'll just wait for GT5

 

[kjakan.no]

The most importent reason to use manual over auto is because it is so much more fun. You are in control of the car. And remember to turn off all kinds of traction control. So much more fun. I actually think it is easier to drive fast with maual, because I always know how fast i go. When I am in auto it is changing up and down at the most idiotic places, and I lose control of witch gear I use.

And auto and drifting is total useless. Ever tried that in real life. That is just dangerous. Suddenly shift against your will.

Manual is FUN! It`s all about control.

 

[Izanagi]

And auto and drifting is total useless. Ever tried that in real life. That is just dangerous. Suddenly shift against your will.

Manual is FUN! It`s all about control.

try locking ur tranny and differential!

 

[Gabkicks]

Here's a randome question.. Is ECU tuning in GT4?

I was asking because this would help better determine when to shift.

 

[kensei]

I've seen videos that race drivers shift earlier than usual on corners so I don't think it is best to shift just before redline. Race drivers know best!

Again...you can't make blanket statements like that. it is different for every car on every circuit...driving style, lap traffic, local condition (i.e. oil, debris, etc) are all factors.....

The best is to know your car inside and out and learn how to feel it with your hands, feet and butt in the seat and know how it will behave and know how to work with that and get the best out of your car. GT4 is actually pretty good about allowing you to get a "feel" for the car, much better than GT3. The physcis is alot more subtle and you can feel the car moving around alot more, especially weight shifts form braking or acceleration.

Still nothing like the real thing, granted my track experience is almost nill...but evne in my daily driving I can 'feel" the car and what it is doing very well and I would even say the hundreds and hundreds of hours of driving in GT has helped me improve that. Thus I am looking for a track car and into the SCCA and various driving schools. I want to learn how to actually drive on a track. Driving in a video game doesn't fullfill me like it used to. THough I am enjoying GT4 very very much!

Blanket statements just don't work here.

 

[kjakan.no]

try locking ur tranny and differential!

Still don`t think it is the same. You can lock it in a gear, but the engine speed still not follow your wheels. It slips(Dont know I you know what I mean. Hasn`t the best english). In real life this is, not in the game. In the game all gearboxes are manual ones shiftet automatic.

Drifting with auto in real life is scary as hell. Spesially if you have a slow car.

 

[Gabkicks]

yeah, if you'd seen any BM videos, sometimes they shift way past the redline, and othertimes before.

 

[neurokinetik]

I was asking because this would help better determine when to shift.

They have the ECU upgrade, but no real tuning. It's basically a "plug it in and this is what you get" kind of thing. You can see the power curves on the tuning screen, however, and this can help...