perhaps GT6 is falling behind.

[NixxxoN]

You seriously cannot comprehend anyone having a differing opinion to you, can you?

While I personally have no issues with people thinking the opposite, how's that laughable? Care to elaborate?

Well I respect the opinion but I find it funny, I have both PS2 and PS3 here, near me, working, with GT4/GT5/GT6. Comparing the two consoles at the same time, I think GT4 gets completely outclassed in everything, except offline events but thats because it didnt have online.

Edited. You know what I meant. Please go ahead with your explanation.

Honestly I dont have a clue, you should ask Kaz.

 

[Samus]

I would like to point out that Kaz has said himself that some textures found in GT3/4 were solely down to the PS2's power, and it's something that the PS3 doesn't have. I'm no technology expert, so I couldn't tell you exactly what it was, but the PS2 is stronger in some fundamental way.

I'm off to look for that article now...

He spoke about heat haze, that's all.

Well I respect the opinion but I find it funny, I have both PS2 and PS3 with GT4/GT5/GT6. Comparing the two at the same time, I think GT4 gets completely outclassed in everything, except offline events but thats because it didnt have online.


Honestly I dont have a clue, you should ask Kaz.

Laughing at someones opinion is the opposite of respecting it.

 

[iRevelationz]

Well I respect the opinion but I find it funny, I have both PS2 and PS3 with GT4/GT5/GT6. Comparing the two at the same time, I think GT4 gets completely outclassed in everything, except offline events but thats because it didnt have online.

okay...

See how that works?

 

[pyrates]

Honestly I dont have a clue, you should ask Kaz.

Fair answer. Because the PS3 is not the problem with many things wrong in GT6. Design choices are though.

 

[NixxxoN]

Laughing at someones opinion is the opposite of respecting it.

Disagree and there's a difference between "laughing at" and finding it funny.

I'm off to lunch btw :facepalm:

 

[Bo]

He spoke about heat haze, that's all.

Maybe not that much of a deal, but it does show that the PS3 can't match the PS2 in all areas.

Also, an interesting little note i've dug up...

“We don’t have a definite order yet of things, but, you know, January, February, March, April, May, etc., we have updates planned for each of those months, and there are actually more things too which we still can’t mention! [Laughs.]

“We do already have a big update coming in December, and in January there will probably be two big updates. And that’s because there’s a lot of things, such as the unveiling of new cars, which we have no control over.”

Note how he never confirms any dates or timescales for DLC and features in updates. He promised they'd come, but never when (excluding the RB event, but that was probably down to something big and last minute).

 

[Tornado]

I would like to point out that Kaz has said himself that some textures found in GT3/4 were solely down to the PS2's power, and it's something that the PS3 doesn't have. I'm no technology expert, so I couldn't tell you exactly what it was, but the PS2 is stronger in some fundamental way.

I'm off to look for that article now...

Paraphrasing from what was said, but the way the PS2 was designed (it's VRAM in particular) made the fillrate extremely fast; meaning it could draw and discard textures pretty much as needed. This allowed those effects like the heat waves on some tracks with little performance hit on the PS2; but the PS3 doesn't have any direct way to emulate that ability (plus the increased overhead from the higher resolution and models).

 

[Bo]

Paraphrasing from what was said, but the way the PS2 was designed (it's VRAM in particular) made the fillrate extremely fast; meaning it could draw and discard textures pretty much as needed. This allowed those effects like the heat waves on some tracks with little performance hit on the PS2; but the PS3 doesn't have any direct way to emulate that ability (plus the increased overhead from the higher resolution and models).

Thank you for that!

 

[NixxxoN]

okay...

See how that works?

I do, no problem, you can laugh, I wont sue you

 

[Tornado]

He spoke about heat haze, that's all.

Well, no. He specifically mentioned heat haze as an example of something the PS2 could do easily but the PS3 cannot, but he never implied that the PS3 was only lacking in the ability to do that one thing. Kaz is far from the first developer that mentioned the PS3's shortcomings in terms of how fast/easily it could process certain things typically taken for granted. Multiplatform developers constantly complained about the system's relative inflexibility regarding (as another example) the lack of direct hardware support for anti-aliasing compared to the 360.

 

[Samus]

Disagree and there's a difference between "laughing at" and finding it funny.

I'm off to lunch btw :facepalm:

What you did was the equivalent of laughing in my face and then saying I'm wrong. That isn't respect.

Maybe not that much of a deal, but it does show that the PS3 can't match the PS2 in all areas

But it can in a lot of the areas people have complaints, importantly.

Also, an interesting little note i've dug up...

“We don’t have a definite order yet of things, but, you know, January, February, March, April, May, etc., we have updates planned for each of those months, and there are actually more things too which we still can’t mention! [Laughs.]

“We do already have a big update coming in December, and in January there will probably be two big updates. And that’s because there’s a lot of things, such as the unveiling of new cars, which we have no control over.”

Note how he never confirms any dates or timescales for DLC and features in updates. He promised they'd come, but never when (excluding the RB event, but that was probably down to something big and last minute).

What? Except all those months he specified to have big updates, but didn't?

 

[Imari]

Maybe not that much of a deal, but it does show that the PS3 can't match the PS2 in all areas.

Also, an interesting little note i've dug up...

“We don’t have a definite order yet of things, but, you know, January, February, March, April, May, etc., we have updates planned for each of those months, and there are actually more things too which we still can’t mention! [Laughs.]

“We do already have a big update coming in December, and in January there will probably be two big updates. And that’s because there’s a lot of things, such as the unveiling of new cars, which we have no control over.”

Note how he never confirms any dates or timescales for DLC and features in updates. He promised they'd come, but never when (excluding the RB event, but that was probably down to something big and last minute).

Again, has anyone claimed that he did specify when they'd come?

There's stuff that has had dates on it, like the track DLC and Zahara, that were missed. There's the VGT list on granturismo.com which has 12 months on it, Senna which is "around May", and the update list which has no set date, but I think assigning the same 12 months to that is reasonable. If the game isn't complete 12 months after release, PD can throw any concept of them being a reputable developer out the window.


I think what surprises most people is that without the stuff in the updates, the game is pretty sparse. It really needs at least one of those big gameplay adding updates, Online, Course Maker or B Spec. Any of those, if designed right, could provide dozens of hours of gameplay for people while they're waiting for the others.

Physics, usability tweaks and new content aside, GT5 is a better game than GT6. And not for any good reason, all the tools are there to make an astonishingly good game, probably the best racing game ever made. But the design choices they made ensure that there's a very specific way to play the game, and anyone who wants something different is out of luck.

Which is fine, if they want to design the game that way, best of luck to them. It just seems a bit arse backwards in a game that provides so much freedom of selection of tracks and cars, to then turn around and restrict how the racing has to happen so harshly.

10/10 simulator, 5/10 game, and it will continue to be until we get one of those big gameplay updates, which will hopefully turn things around.

 

[TokoTurismo]

We'll see.

Yeah. We'll see..... In the next century if PD still even exist, which I'm sure they won't be.

 

[Samus]

For me it's extremely simple. I play 90% offline games, I'm not into online gaming in any real way. I did some shuffle racing in GT5 but that was about it. That means for me to enjoy GT the single player has to be good. With poor, rubberbanding AI the entire game is ruined for me. It's that simple.

 

[Bo]

What? Except all those months he specified to have big updates, but didn't?

"Planned" (since I put it in bold) is not a definite. If you've ever studied Latin, you will know that the indefinite term of something can be said much like you are going to undertake such a thing (ie planning), yet you cannot say for definite that such an act will be carried out.

Again, has anyone claimed that he did specify when they'd come?

Pretty much every page somebody said they promised x in x time and we don't have it (actually, the quote above!).

10/10 simulator, 5/10 game, and it will continue to be until we get one of those big gameplay updates, which will hopefully turn things around.

Completely agree with this.

 

[NixxxoN]

What you did was the equivalent of laughing in my face and then saying I'm wrong. That isn't respect.

Depends of the own personality and culture. Have you a flanders personality?

For me it's extremely simple. I play 90% offline games, I'm not into online gaming in any real way. I did some shuffle racing in GT5 but that was about it. That means for me to enjoy GT the single player has to be good. With poor, rubberbanding AI the entire game is ruined for me. It's that simple.

If you dont play online, I understand that you find the game to be terrible... To me online is the best by far.

Yeah. We'll see..... In the next century if PD still even exist, which I'm sure they won't be.

We'll all be dead by then

 

[Samus]

Depends of the own personality and culture. Have you a flanders personality?

If you dont play online, I understand that you find the game to be terrible... To me online is the best by far.

We'll all be dead by then

I can assure you laughing at someone and telling them their opinion is wrong is not respectful in any culture. I'm certainly not offended, this is the internet, but I do find it annoying how you refuse to accept any opinion other than your own, yes.

As for that admission the offline game is terrible, NOW do you see why some of us prefer the older games? When offline wasn't terrible?

 

[Imari]

Pretty much every page somebody said they promised x in x time and we don't have it.

Note then that there are some things that they put dates on and have missed.


=========


For those who think GT6 is great, ignore this next bit, it's not for you.

Or at least accept that in order to discuss the idea I'm about to present, you need to start with the assumption that GT6 is at least somewhat of a failure. I don't want to argue over whether it is or not, because if you don't think it is I'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise, but that assumption is a necessary prerequisite for the next bit.


I was reading an article about the revival of FFXIV.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/215753/understanding_the_successful_.php

Yes, GT6 isn't nearly the apocalyptic failure that FFXIV 1.0 was. Nonetheless, on the first page there's a slide from one of Naoki Yoshida's GDC presentations.

Naoki Yoshida is the guy who came in to turn FFXIV around, and he did a frankly amazing job of both addressing the majority of the criticisms of the game and communicating well with the fanbase both in Japan and internationally. The rerelease of FFXIV has been a resounding success.

I'm not suggesting that GT6 needs to be rebuilt from the ground up the way FFXIV was. I am suggesting that those three things above that Yoshida describes as points of failure for FFXIV sound a lot to me like PD, if you replace MMORPG with racing sim.

Unhealthy obsession with graphic quality: Check.
Surprising lack of sim racing knowledge amongst team members: Hard to tell, but there's some design choices in the game that you wouldn't expect if they had a strong knowledge so I'm marking this as probably.
Mindset that every problem can be patched away: BIG check.

Polyphony would probably do well to note the things that brought FFXIV 1.0 down, and avoid falling into the same trap. It would be nice if they'd also take on board the lessons that Yoshida brought about communication and being current with modern gaming trends, but I'd settle for Polyphony simply not making the above mistakes come GT7 time.

 

[TokoTurismo]

We'll all be dead by then

Excatly. That's how long PD won't say a single word for, because one waited for them to do so.

 

[NixxxoN]

I can assure you laughing at someone and telling them their opinion is wrong is not respectful in any culture. I'm certainly not offended, this is the internet, but I do find it annoying how you refuse to accept any opinion other than your own, yes.

As for that admission the offline game is terrible, NOW do you see why some of us prefer the older games? When offline wasn't terrible?

I'm not the only one here having a hard time accepting other opinions, you only have to read the thread again.
You know, I understand that you may like playing offline, what I dont get is why you wont play online aswell.
GT5/6 have a lot of focus to the online part and thats why they have less offline stuff than GT4. If GT5/6 had no online, for sure that the offline mode would be larger and better, but it's not the case.

 

[Imari]

I'm not the only one here having a hard time accepting other opinions, you only have to read the thread again.
You know, I understand that you may like playing offline, what I dont get is why you wont play online aswell.
GT5/6 have a lot of focus to the online part and thats why they have less offline stuff than GT4. If GT5/6 had no online, for sure that the offline mode would be larger and better, but it's not the case.

I hate to tell you this, but the online mode in GT6 (and GT5 for that matter) is basic at best. It does what it sets out to do well, but what it sets out to do is very limited.

Hell, it was only recently that they came up with the revolutionary idea of being able to see what the restrictions on a room were before entering it, was it not?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm not the only one here having a hard time accepting other opinions, you only have to read the thread again.
You know, I understand that you may like playing offline, what I dont get is why you wont play online aswell.
GT5/6 have a lot of focus to the online part and thats why they have less offline stuff than GT4. If GT5/6 had no online, for sure that the offline mode would be larger and better, but it's not the case.

GT6 is not played online by the vast, vast majority of people. A manual count of total rooms worldwide is almost always less than 200. That's maybe 1500/2Million online at any one time. To the majority of people, it's still an offline game.

And unless you like drag racing, cruising or racing on F1 qualifying tires, there isn't much for you online. On top of that, the sort options just aren't there. If I want to find a room with Comfort Tires or Sports Hards I have to scroll through every room, and then when I find one that look like it might have the tires I want, I have to enter the specs of the room to double check it's what I want. It's an archaic search system, especially for what is supposed to be the premiere console sim of all time. It's unnecessarily laborious and time consuming for a racing fanatic, imagine how it appears to a casual player.

 

[NixxxoN]

I hate to tell you this, but the online mode in GT6 (and GT5 for that matter) is basic at best. It does what it sets out to do well, but what it sets out to do is very limited.

Its enough that you can race with 16 people on any game track with any sort of cars and with variety of rules and race setups to choose. Enough for me to spend so much time playing. Im sad for those cant enjoy it like me, no joke

GT6 is not played online by the vast, vast majority of people. A manual count of total rooms worldwide is almost always less than 200. That's maybe 1500/2Million online at any one time. To the majority of people, it's still an offline game.

And unless you like drag racing, cruising or racing on F1 qualifying tires, there isn't much for you online. On top of that, the sort options just aren't there. If I want to find a room with Comfort Tires or Sports Hards I have to scroll through every room, and then when I find one that look like it might have the tires I want, I have to enter the specs of the room to double check it's what I want. It's an archaic search system, especially for what is supposed to be the premiere console sim of all time. It's unnecessarily laborious and time consuming for a racing fanatic, imagine how it appears to a casual player.

You forget that just because people buy it doesnt mean they have to play it every day... If some people dont play online its their problem, not the games problem.
I know online can be improved, but its still not hard to look at the list of lobbies and choose the one you like most. Its not time consuming, you only spend like 5 minutes

 

[Roflwaffle]

I think everyone is bored with arguing with you, NixxxoN.

 

[NixxxoN]

I think everyone is bored with arguing with you, NixxxoN.

Ok

Im bored too btw. I'm off to do some good online races in GT6

 

[Johnnypenso]

You forget that just because people buy it doesnt mean they have to play it every day... If some people dont play online its their problem, not the games problem.
I know online can be improved, but its still not hard to look at the list of lobbies and choose the one you like most. Its not time consuming, you only spend like 5 minutes

You're missing the point. The game is not an online game for the vast majority of people and therefore it has to have an quality offline game mode or it will continue to lose sales so yes, it is the game's problem. It was historically a huge offline game and the transition to online just isn't there for most people. Either they recognize that and revamp the offline part of the game or there may not be a GT8 for you to enjoy.

And online isn't 5 minutes. First, it's 5-10 minutes of drudgery searching through rooms entitled 🤬 and 🤬 you and I 🤬 Your Mom until you're lucky enough to find one where a semi-inteligent person entitled the room. Then you have to enter the room specs and manually check if it has what you like. Then you have to join the room and find out if they're actually doing what the room title says they're doing, and if they are decent racers...etc. etc. etc.

Or you could have proper search functions, matchmaking, and online driver ratings.

Which version of online do you think the vast majority of people would prefer?

 

[NixxxoN]

You're missing the point. The game is not an online game for the vast majority of people and therefore it has to have an quality offline game mode or it will continue to lose sales so yes, it is the game's problem. It was historically a huge offline game and the transition to online just isn't there for most people. Either they recognize that and revamp the offline part of the game or there may not be a GT8 for you to enjoy.

And online isn't 5 minutes. First, it's 5-10 minutes of drudgery searching through rooms entitled 🤬 and 🤬 you and I 🤬 Your Mom until you're lucky enough to find one where a semi-inteligent person entitled the room. Then you have to enter the room specs and manually check if it has what you like. Then you have to join the room and find out if they're actually doing what the room title says they're doing, and if they are decent racers...etc. etc. etc.

Or you could have proper search functions, matchmaking, and online driver ratings.

Which version of online do you think the vast majority of people would prefer?

Then in north america there are so many non-serious players there? In Spain the people who open lobbies always put "serious" or "non serious/dirty" in the title, therefore I almost never join the wrong lobby.

 

[jflomario]

As far as creature comforts go, GT is lacking in that department. Personally I've never seen GT as the benchmark to anything. Even as an adult now comparing older GTs to other older racing games GT comes up short. Maybe I'm spoiled by technology. I don't know.

But they're still missing features just about everyone else has and after two current(last) gen games and living in an age of immediate feedback, they still have little to show for it. Not to mention they took features out like B-Spec ...something people could use now especially if you didn't buy the game pre-patch.

To say PD is the only one guilty of this is a lie but its the way they do it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Then in north america there are so many non-serious players there? In Spain the people who open lobbies always put "serious" or "non serious/dirty" in the title, therefore I almost never join the wrong lobby.

Hosts are driving, not watching races. Putting "fair" or "serious" in a lobby title doesn't make it so. That is the function of matchmaking and online driver ratings and collision reports and the kinds of things other games are capable of but the premier driving sim in the world is not. I've been in many rooms outside of North America and there really is not much difference in the cleanliness of drivers regardless of what the title of the room says.

But again, you miss the larger point. More hardcore guys like you and me are will to do the gruntwork necessary to find a room, casual players are not. If it was easier and safer they might, but most prefer offline. PD ignores offline game development at their own peril. For many, many reasons, online is just not a viable alternative for most people.

 

[jakeBG18]

...searching through rooms entitled 🤬 and 🤬 you and I 🤬 Your Mom until you're lucky enough...

This 1000%.It easier to just make your own room and wait it out to see if other people join,which that itself can and has taken hours.