Physics Project on GT5P

  • Thread starter Pelikan
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Pelikan

Pelikan

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DNA_Pelikan
I made a proposal to my professor, asking him if I could write a paper about the physics in Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, and surprisingly enough he said that it was a great idea. The paper has to be around ten pages, so I am going to need alot of good sources that discuss the physics in GT5P.

Anyone have any good ideas on things to include in the paper, or sources for that matter.

I really want the paper to be highly presentable and factual.

Thanks.
 
If I am honest, I would recommend other sims like lfs to do as a physics project. GT5:P is particularly transparent with its data. Its a good idea, but I would imagine it being pretty difficult.
 
one thing you could talk about it the bobbling SL55 we had a discussion about last month. Or how aerodynamics in certain cases are more of a hindrance than a help. Or you could talk about the yeaild point for a tyre's grip before it lets go...and you could factor a suspension setup in there aswell.
 
80Y 2C2
one thing you could talk about it the bobbling SL55 we had a discussion about last month. Or how aerodynamics in certain cases are more of a hindrance than a help. Or you could talk about the yeaild point for a tyre's grip before it lets go...and you could factor a suspension setup in there aswell.
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Its hard to talk about any of these in details. The suspension for instance don't use real units, just imaginary gran turismo ones. Its tricky to do any calculations without knowing specific figures. Most of your calculations have to be done by actual in game testing however you aren't really fed much information whilst driving. The yeild point of grip is a good one though, since you have the use of a lateral G-force bar, so you can run some calculations on that. Its just a shame that your calculations will be of an imaginary tyre with an unspecified width, diameter etc. Without researching the actual cars real life stats its going to be hard to calculate much using gran turismo alone. There is no doubt plenty of physics to talk about on Gran Turismo Prologue. I just think if you want to base it on a simulator game then there are easier options out there.
 
You should've made sure there were research materials before you decided to do the project on this.

However, there are probably a bunch of articles comparing Gran Turismo in general to real life cars and you could find that those articles probably contain the best factual evidence/support for whatever your thesis is.
 
It would be superb if you can contact PD directly and explain your intention. I'm sure they'll help you for extra publicity. Don't forget to mention GTPlanet.

Dude...I can imagine a lot of their physics mysteries will be discovered by you soon! You'll be a 'star' in this forum by revealing your information from PD to us when you finish! Seriously!:dopey:
 
Don't forget to explore the differences in overall car behaviour with ABS on and off.
 
If you want to know anything about how the Ford GT in GT5p handles compared to the real life car just ask as I have driven/been in both. In short it is actually pretty close. KY owns a GT. I can imagine this is why it is so close.
 
Hope you dont fail your paper as there isnt much info on how the cars react compaired to real life. Its more of a guess. Contract pd maybe if you do they will make more of an effort to correct the errors in the physics engine and also will help you get a good grade on your paper
 
You could always apeald to PD vain side, and tell them that you are doing a project on them, try emailing them. and ask if they can tell you how they go about it. doubt you will get a reply. but hay it wont kill you to try.
 
You could certainly do a paper on the physics of racing simulators, but I suggest moving away from trying to do a paper which examines one specific sim.
 
Stevisiov.
Its hard to talk about any of these in details. The suspension for instance don't use real units, just imaginary gran turismo ones. Its tricky to do any calculations without knowing specific figures. Most of your calculations have to be done by actual in game testing however you aren't really fed much information whilst driving. The yeild point of grip is a good one though, since you have the use of a lateral G-force bar, so you can run some calculations on that. Its just a shame that your calculations will be of an imaginary tyre with an unspecified width, diameter etc. Without researching the actual cars real life stats its going to be hard to calculate much using gran turismo alone. There is no doubt plenty of physics to talk about on Gran Turismo Prologue. I just think if you want to base it on a simulator game then there are easier options out there.
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If he was going to use measuring units, he would have to go into even further depth by choosing the car, looking at the weight balance, hight of centre of gravity, co efficiant of friction between the tires and what surface the cars on. This - even with 10 pages to fill - is probably going to far.

I was talking about suspention as he could talk about how ride hight, toe and camber angle, spring rates and damper bound and rebound change a car's handling characteristics and how one could change these to suite a different track or road surface.
 
Be sure to check out the Physics of Racing Series, by Brian Beckman. It started out as an attempt to describe car physics from the perspective of someone wanting to write a racing simulator, but the sim project never got off the ground. Nevertheless, there's lots of good information there.
 
The best way to work this out is to have at least one car identical or similar to an in-game car on hand, a GPS or inertial performance meter like a V-Box (the Drift Box is even better, as it gives you drift angle, but there's no meter measuring this out in game), a closed-off course (a parking lot will do), a camera and a test-track laid out in cones.

The closest you can get to a flat surface in GT5P would probably be somewhere on Fuji... London would be possible, but there's not much space.

Compare car behavior in things such as J-Turns, slalom maneuvers, 90-degree turns (set speed, full lock) and the like. Take pictures as the car goes through the turn, compare the amount of lean and lateral grip generated.

This would be easier with Gran Turismo 4, actually as it already has a course laid out for you, with cones, in-game, which you can replicate in real-life, and the wide selection of cheap cars means you can probably find or create a facsimile in-game of the real-life car you plan to use.
 
niky
The closest you can get to a flat surface in GT5P would probably be somewhere on Fuji... London would be possible, but there's not much space.
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Or that large slab of flat stuff off the side of both daytonas
 
First of all...

Thank you all for your input regarding the paper...I have a busy week ahead of me so I'm afraid I won't have much time to review all of these replies thoroughly until this weekend.

Hopefully I can figure out what exactly I will be doing with this paper...and for the hell of it I will attempt to contact PD but I see a very slim chance if any that they will reply.

Thanks again...
 
So far on what I hear most Realistic physics are iRacing. I bet if you play game for a bit, as well send email to them, and write on their forums, they would explain and give you some Math Problems to back up physics in their game etc. etc.

GT5(P) would be a hard thing to do. No one here knows how they really do it because they are ultra secretive. Sure GT5P is pretty good driving sim, but PD never explains the mechanical gears behind it, what drives the game, how it works.


If I were you, go with iRacing since it is considered to be #1 authentic simulator of current gen.
 
Okay after playing the game for a few hours yesterday to possibly spark some ideas, here is a list of the things that I plan to cover verbally in the paper and to the best of my abilities test in the game.

NOTE: this is completely brainstorming, the topics are broad and I would have to narrow them down

*TOPICS*

Tires
-Acceleration Test
+Real vs. Virtual
-Braking Test
+ABS on/off
+Real vs. Virtual
-Drifting
+physics behind it
+lateral grip
+tires yield point
-Skidpad
+Use the in game G meter to record and compare G force during skidpad

Any more ideas?
 
hmm sounds good, Make sure you use recommended tire list and you will be good to go.. Do you use a decent wheel to play GT5P? Because that would help during better accelerations, better braking, as well better smoother turns for more accurate G forces.


You could also compare Track physics.. Like where are best grips, how car reacts on grass and gravel. Also try to see if different track's pavements offer different grip levels.
 
I would actually not use the recommended tire list. Instead, explore the inaccuracies in tire grip available by the different tire ranges and see what produces the most realistic results. You'll find, almost 9 times out of 10, the longitudinal grip that produces the best results is one tire grade better than the lateral grip that produces the best results.
 
NoxNoctis Umbra
Do you use a decent wheel to play GT5P? Because that would help during better accelerations, better braking, as well better smoother turns for more accurate G forces.
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I use a Logitech DFP and I actually planned on using it over the controller for most test because of the things you mentioned.
 
I'm particularly interested in wheter or not it is possible to get a full experience from a racing sim without experiencing the g-forces with my butt. I tend to think that no matter how realistically can one model the physics in a game, you'll always be missing the most important thing - the g-forces. And my question is wheter a person can develop a special sense (could be combined from different other senses (eg hearing the tyre sound, seeing transfer of body weight) that can make up on this big "flaw" of missing g-forces. Hope you get my idea, cause english isn't my native language and haven't used it very much lately.
 
weaselEST
I'm particularly interested in wheter or not it is possible to get a full experience from a racing sim without experiencing the g-forces with my butt. I tend to think that no matter how realistically can one model the physics in a game, you'll always be missing the most important thing - the g-forces. And my question is wheter a person can develop a special sense (could be combined from different other senses (eg hearing the tyre sound, seeing transfer of body weight) that can make up on this big "flaw" of missing g-forces. Hope you get my idea, cause english isn't my native language and haven't used it very much lately.
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If some of the native speakers of the language could type as accurately as you, we'd all be better off. 👍

That lack of g-force sensation is the exact reason why a normally good driver can't just jump into a G25 cockpit and immediately keep it on the track at speed. You absolutely have to learn the sights, sounds and feel of the wheel to make up for the lack of g-force, which is why the racing line and recommended speed through corners displays are there to help for drivers who are new to the game.

There is a g-force display as well, but it's pretty hard to use in practice. I think that eventually you just learn the tracks so well that you know what speed/rpm range you need to be at in order to navigate the swerves efficiently. I think memorization would be the 'sixth-sense' you're talking about.
 

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