Picking a car....

[makospeed44]

Ok so here's the situation, I'm looking to get a car and I was originally gonna jump on this Camaro Z/28 because its everything I wanted and its bone stock and just great. But now there's this 3000GT for sale and I'm a little confused as to what I should do. Here's what my problem is:

I'm looking for a car I can work on. Learn how to do bolt-on performance upgrades and maybe even eventually do some big time things (full engine modifications or transmission job or even an engine swap). I am gonna use the car as my daily driver. And I also have a 1969 Dodge Coronet as well. So the Camaro would be kind of redundant with the American muscle. Not too mention the V8 would suck up gas. I also don't know how to drive stick. And I'm from South Jersey so Winter's suck here. But at the same time, I've wanted a Camaro forever and it would be ideal for who I am and what I want to do. And it is exactly perfectly what I want. The 3000GT would be a nice Japanese car to work on and a change from the V8 Coronet. It would be better on gas and its already got aftermarket wheels on it. I wouldn't work on it as much as the Camaro though (not as much performance upgrades). But at the same time, it is an automatic and it might have more miles. Plus I like it a lot, but I'm not crazy about it. It seems like the 3000GT would be smarter, but the Camaro would be more satisfying and better for the performance. But I'll let you guys try and swindle me one way or the other. Here are the 2 cars.


1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
5.7L LT1 V8 at about 285 bhp and 320 ft-lbs
6-Speed Manual Trans
95K Miles
T-Tops
Leather Interior
Bright Red paint
Bone Stock

1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT (Probably Base model or at the most SL, I will check and Edit tomorrow)
3.0L V6 at about 220 bhp and 200 ft-lbs
4-Speed Automatic Trans (I think)
Miles unknown....as of now.
Sable Black
Two-Tone Red and Black Interior(?)
5-Spoke Aftermarket Wheels (brand unknown)

Aright, I'll edit it when I get more info, but those are the basics. Lemme know what you guys think. And try and make it as detailed as possible as to why. Oh and as soon as possible, my father is due for open heart surgery on Tuesday so I'd like to make my final decision before then. Thank you all in advance

 

[Thatman]

Okay mako, how good are you at mechanics and electric gremlins?
If you not well versed the Camaro would be a better idea.
I have a friend with a VR-4 and it seems like there are little nit picky things with with them if they aren't maintained meticulously. Well thats a DSM in general.

That being said the Mitsu Is far better looking car IMO and will give you lots to work on.

Not saying the Camaro isn't cool either but as you have said you kind of have an American muscle car.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Never worked on a LT1 before have you, pop the hood and see how much room you have to work with. Most performance shops in Houston will not touch them any more, pain to work on. See if you can find a LS1 Camaro 01-02 were the fastest year models for those cars. 98-00 would be the other years to look for but only 10-15 hp less.

I'd like an LT1 body car, the quad headlights look meaner but I would swap the engine for an LS1 or LS3. Plenty of references to go by as a ton of people have done that swap.

 

[makospeed44]

Okay mako, how good are you at mechanics and electric gremlins?
If you not well versed the Camaro would be a better idea.
I have a friend with a VR-4 and it seems like there are little nit picky things with with them if they are maintained meticulously. Well thats a DSM in general.

That being said the Mitsu Is far better looking car IMO and will give you lots to work on.

Not saying the Camaro isn't cool either but as you have said you kind of have an American muscle car.

I've never worked on a car before so the electronics department would be a pain. I wanna learn it though. Eventually. I definitely would be doing more body work on the 3000GT. But idk if I should learn body work before the actual mechanical stuff.

 

[makospeed44]

Never worked on a LT1 before have you, pop the hood and see how much room you have to work with. Most performance shops in Houston will not touch them any more, pain to work on. See if you can find a LS1 Camaro 01-02 were the fastest year models for those cars. 98-00 would be the other years to look for but only 10-15 hp less.

I'd like an LT1 body car, the quad headlights look meaner but I would swap the engine for an LS1 or LS3. Plenty of references to go by as a ton of people have done that swap.

I've never worked on an LT1, but I know they're tight in there. I heard the fuel pump is a pain the behind as well. But I'm willin to take on that challenge. And I'm thinkin a couple years down the line, I'm gonna swap to the LS1.

 

[JCE]

Ok so here's the situation, I'm looking to get a car and I was originally gonna jump on this Camaro Z/28 because its everything I wanted and its bone stock and just great. But now there's this 3000GT for sale and I'm a little confused as to what I should do. Here's what my problem is:

I'm looking for a car I can work on. Learn how to do bolt-on performance upgrades and maybe even eventually do some big time things (full engine modifications or transmission job or even an engine swap). I am gonna use the car as my daily driver. And I also have a 1969 Dodge Coronet as well. So the Camaro would be kind of redundant with the American muscle. Not too mention the V8 would suck up gas. I also don't know how to drive stick. And I'm from South Jersey so Winter's suck here. But at the same time, I've wanted a Camaro forever and it would be ideal for who I am and what I want to do. And it is exactly perfectly what I want. The 3000GT would be a nice Japanese car to work on and a change from the V8 Coronet. It would be better on gas and its already got aftermarket wheels on it. I wouldn't work on it as much as the Camaro though (not as much performance upgrades). But at the same time, it is an automatic and it might have more miles. Plus I like it a lot, but I'm not crazy about it. It seems like the 3000GT would be smarter, but the Camaro would be more satisfying and better for the performance. But I'll let you guys try and swindle me one way or the other. Here are the 2 cars.


1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
5.7L LT1 V8 at about 285 bhp and 320 ft-lbs
6-Speed Manual Trans
95K Miles
T-Tops
Leather Interior
Bright Red paint
Bone Stock

1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT (Probably Base model or at the most SL, I will check and Edit tomorrow)
3.0L V6 at about 220 bhp and 200 ft-lbs
4-Speed Automatic Trans (I think)
Miles unknown....as of now.
Sable Black
Two-Tone Red and Black Interior(?)
5-Spoke Aftermarket Wheels (brand unknown)

Aright, I'll edit it when I get more info, but those are the basics. Lemme know what you guys think. And try and make it as detailed as possible as to why. Oh and as soon as possible, my father is due for open heart surgery on Tuesday so I'd like to make my final decision before then. Thank you all in advance

The 3000GT in base or SL form is slow, heavy and actually doesn't get very good MPG. And don't even get me started on the automatic transmission piece, this car absolutely NEEDS a manual transmission. The non-VR4 gets about 16 city and 22 highway. Not to mention the base and SL models of the 3000GT are...FWD. That coupled with the hefty weight and a rather dubious gas mileage number should speak for itself. I had a '93 VR4 back in 2000 and while it was a mechanical nightmare it was one of the most fun vehicles I've ever owned.

HOWEVER, do yourself a favor and find a VR4 with low mileage and service records. You won't regret it. If you do decide on either of the 3000GT trims just make sure that the timing was done at 80-90k or you are in a ticking timebomb.

 

[makospeed44]

The 3000GT in base or SL form is slow, heavy and actually doesn't get very good MPG. And don't even get me started on the automatic transmission piece, this car absolutely NEEDS a manual transmission. The non-VR4 gets about 16 city and 22 highway. Not to mention the base and SL models of the 3000GT are...FWD. That coupled with the hefty weight and a rather dubious gas mileage number should speak for itself. I had a '93 VR4 back in 2000 and while it was a mechanical nightmare it was one of the most fun vehicles I've ever owned.

HOWEVER, do yourself a favor and find a VR4 with low mileage and service records. You won't regret it. If you do decide on either of the 3000GT trims just make sure that the timing was done at 80-90k or you are in a ticking timebomb.

Well its definitely a base or an SL and its probably got upwards of 100K so I take it you say Camaro?

 

[JCE]

Well its definitely a base or an SL and its probably got upwards of 100K so I take it you say Camaro?

Soley between those two, yes. The Camaro with that engine should be good for over 160,000 miles if halfassed on maintenance and 200,000 with good maintenance.

Plus the noise and RWD alone would sway me.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Soley between those two, yes. The Camaro with that engine should be good for over 160,000 miles if halfassed on maintenance and 200,000 with good maintenance.

Plus the noise and RWD alone would sway me.

have only had one GM motor pop on me, was 300K on an '89 350. We have had 2 other 350s we sold with 500k on them. You really have to abuse them to get them to break.

 

[JCE]

I did 251,845 on my 305.

 

[Eric.]

The trans will go on the 3000GT, guaranteed. Mitsubishi can't make a decent automatic. Camaro, hands down, for more reasons than just the transmission.

 

[Sniffs]

definitely recommend the Mo. you'll actually have room to work (96 means it should still be using the 83 body?) Older vehicles will be easier to work on, as there's more parts available, they were designed for easier access without all "specialty tools", and your not gonna pay a fortune for parts if you break something on the way (Example: friggin 300 bucks for a single taillight LENS? that's more than I paid for my '83 Camry)
even i know that you practically have to BE Japanese to work on a Japanese car, IE have the ability to think and plan WAY ahead to make sure everything is done right the first time, or everything fails epically.

fail tranny on the JGTO? what, do they borrow them from Chrysler? (who also has a rep for making fail Trannies)

 

[MaliciousMD]

Camaro = Cool
LT-1 = Not Cool
3000GT = Junk, VR4/GTO Included.

For the price range of both of those cars you could find a modular motor Mustang pretty easily. Dare I say maybe 3rd Gen Camaro w/ 305 then swap to LSX, preferably something with rectangle port heads like an LS3 or L92...

 

[BrutherSuperior]

The 3000GT is a turd.

While it was cool for all of 15min in the late 90's, the Japanese sports cars from that era with any staying power would be the RX-7, NSX, and Supra. The red-headed stepchildren of that time (3000GT, Dodge thingy, 300ZX, and a host of other turbo oddities) are pretty much heaps and they didn't age every well.

The Z28 will also have its problems. A quick Google search for 'optispark' should be enough to give you night terrors. Aside from that bit, the interior is a miserable experience to behold. The steering was bad when the car was new...imagine what 15 or so years have done to it. While the car has a good engine, hampered by crap electronics, and a decent 6-speed; the rest of the car is really junk.

Now junk isn't always bad. There's quite a few cheap and charming cars out there...the Z28 isn't one of them.

Contrary to what people may tell you, nothing is "cheap and easy" when it comes to modifying that car. 1/2 the engine is under the dash board, 1/2 the interior will be falling apart/rattling, and 100% of the suspension components will be shot after 95,000k miles and 15 years.

If you were buying this as a 2nd or 3rd car; I'd say go for it if you have your heart set on something with a V8. But as a dependable 'running project' I would advise against this. I had one long ago that was an SCCA A-Sedan car...I do not miss it one bit.

Want a car with a bit of character that's an absolute laugh when you drive it? Something that makes pissed off noises, is DIY friendly, can be modded, and has quite a bit of an enthusiast following along with tech support?

Here

If you take your time, you can find rust-free examples with less than 100k miles for under $3,000. Seriously...these things are a bargain. Even with those miles, the interior will not rattle and the steering is still taught. They're not perfect, but they're fun as hell to own and work on.

 

[JCE]

I'm sorry but a Jetta does not have the reliability or aftermarket that the Camaro does. It's not even remotely "sporty". Even the heavy 3000GT base looks sporty, something the Jetta doesn't.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Why not just look into a Mustang?

 

[YSSMAN]

The Mustang is cheaper, and that's really the only thing it has going for it. Sure, the old 5.0L engine has a bit of soul that most modern V8s lack, and the newer modular 4.6L has a very unique sound that separates it from the LT1 and LS1... But, the 4th generation F-Body was leagues ahead of the Fox-based chassis that Ford carried on for far too long.

For a bit of hooning, the Mustang is more than adequate. But on a day-to-day basis, I'd much rather have a 4th Gen.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

The Mustang is cheaper, and that's really the only thing it has going for it. Sure, the old 5.0L engine has a bit of soul that most modern V8s lack, and the newer modular 4.6L has a very unique sound that separates it from the LT1 and LS1... But, the 4th generation F-Body was leagues ahead of the Fox-based chassis that Ford carried on for far too long.

For a bit of hooning, the Mustang is more than adequate. But on a day-to-day basis, I'd much rather have a 4th Gen.

I think we're looking into 4th Mustang which might not be too bad. Its a good car with tons of parts support.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

I'm sorry but a Jetta does not have the reliability or aftermarket that the Camaro does. It's not even remotely "sporty". Even the heavy 3000GT base looks sporty, something the Jetta doesn't.

I've never seen or heard of an LT1 Camaro with 250,000 miles on the original body, engine, and transmission. VWs do this all the time. I recently sold a Passat with that much on the ticker...that wagon still could fry the front tires. Looked like hell but never-ever broke down on me.

Aftermarket on Camaro=$$$

The thing some wide-eyed potential owners do not realize is that working on that car isn't easy. Just because it's an American car (made in Canada) does not mean things are cheap either. Ask someone who's had a water pump go how 'easy' it was and how cheap it was to replace the pump and the electrical bits that fried along with it. I'd also venture something like H/C/I would pretty much require a lift. A Mustang? No...

About 'sporty'; sporty is a marketing term. You can buy a beige Toyota Corolla S(port) and even the Chevy Volt is marketed as a "sport sedan". The word "sport" is a joke. I'd also say that the Jetta handles, performs (there's a difference), and accelerates better than an SVT Focus. That's a sporty car, right?

The thing is, I think older VWs have that "x-factor" that TopGear rails on about. You may not, the OP may not, whatever. It's just another option. And for the price? I think you can absolutely steal one and have plenty of cash leftover to buy tools, beer, or a Vegas vacation.

It's a quirky car. It looks quirky, the inline-v 6cyl makes a wonderful noise, the interior is nice for that era (if a bit cramped) compared to what the UAW puked out, and is actually kinda quick. It doesn't have the raw power of a small-block, it just has a bunch of noise coming from the intake that makes you laugh b/c you can't believe that something resembling a lunch box can do what you're making it do. They're hysterical in that way.

It's a $3000ish car that may be fun to some people. It's got that German box-on-wheels look, solid construction, and it isn't terribly complicated. Sounds perfect for a "running project" to me. A Camaro would be a money pit that will still be slower than a new Mustang and no more fun to drive than an S-10. I actually think the previous generation was a better, if I dare say "finer", car in every way imaginable. I've owned 3rd & 4th gen F-bodies...the 3rd gen would be the car I'd look for if I wanted another Camaro.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

For a bit of hooning, the Mustang is more than adequate. But on a day-to-day basis, I'd much rather have a 4th Gen.

You sure about that?

The Camaro drives like a truck. The super low seating position, long hood you can't see, and the massive dashboard you can land jets on make it kinda akward to drive day-to-day. And the ABS is an atrocity. Pull the fuse if you want to stop. If one tire rolls over a damp leaf, the ABS system freaks out. That used to scare the bejeezus out of me.

Mustangs have a higher driving position, more comfortable seats, and you can actually see the hood. While the ABS in the older ones (I had a '94) was almost as terrifying as the Camaro, at least the brakes had a really good 'feel' to them.

Day-to-day, I thought the Mustang was a much easier car to live with even with suspension mods. When my old Z28 was stock, I never really felt comfortable driving it. Maybe I knew it was going to try to kill me later on (long story short; the brakes literally broke...and so did I).

 

[LSX]

I don't think performance cars and gremlins can exist without one another, so deal with them, they're not major.

A buddy of mine had a '97 Z-28, his only problems showed up after a built tranny, shift and stall were put in. Another friend had a '95 with H/C/I, built tranny, shift, stall and gears that was beast, which never had anything wrong with it. They both handled better than I'd ever need on the street, it's not like they were dump trucks or something. WOT take take off was always rear end floating, tires searching for grip all the way into second gear awesomeness. Well, depending on how you look at it, I think it was awesome. Never was in an M6 car, so I can't comment, though I'm sure it's more of the same. Long hood is weird though. I think that there is plenty to not like about 4th gens, but the cool things about them outweigh them.

Could be because I never owned either car, so I never had to live with them, only interact with them often.

Get a tune up and have a mechanic look at it to make sure things are up to spec, drive the hell out of it.

 

[JCE]

You can get a nicely clean stock 4th Gen pre-2003 Cobra for little money. If you get a '99 make sure to have your local Ford dealer pull an Oasis report to make sure the recall was done--the one I'm referring is where Ford overrated the horsepower.

The Mustang is cheaper, and that's really the only thing it has going for it. Sure, the old 5.0L engine has a bit of soul that most modern V8s lack, and the newer modular 4.6L has a very unique sound that separates it from the LT1 and LS1... But, the 4th generation F-Body was leagues ahead of the Fox-based chassis that Ford carried on for far too long.

For a bit of hooning, the Mustang is more than adequate. But on a day-to-day basis, I'd much rather have a 4th Gen.

The 4th gen Fbody is indeed something the Fox isn't, that is uncomfortable. The seats in Fbodies have always been terrible. Not to mention for daily use the Mustang is light years ahead with ride comfort, space and practicality. I'd rather be comfy while hooning around in the Fox than slightly faster in the Fbody.