Please come in if you own a fanatec or T500RS

  • Thread starter Thread starter shaun_ccxr
  • 123 comments
  • 22,386 views
One thing I want you all to be aware of is that the current version of my load cell makes your brake pedal VERY stiff -- I'm talking almost NO actual travel (aside from some flex, maybe), but even so the load cell does detect the whole spectrum of varying pressure as you press on the pedal. In its current iteration, the brake pedal feels like a VERY firm, highly-pressurized racing pedal which has basically no dead zone or movement to it.

I'm looking into a couple of options now that will allow for SOME pedal travel (maybe up to a half-inch), but if these options pan out it might make for a slight price increase over my current costs.

I'd welcome thoughts or feedback on the "ultra-stiff, highly pressurized, no-travel" option versus a "spongy but stiff with some travel" option when it comes to the load cell implementations.

For me, the "ultra-stiff, highly pressurized, no-travel" option works really well -- there was some adjustment period required as I re-learned how to apply pressure rather than relying on pedal movement as with a potentiometer, but aside from not having a spongy feeling, I can easily modulate my input with the stiff load cell as easily as I modulate braking input in my car with a softer, spongy pedal driving a stock Ford Focus hydraulic brake system.

In other words, the lack of travel has become irrelevant after a brief adaptation period, and overall it feels VERY realistic . . . but I want to make sure that the end product meets the customers' expectations, so please share your thoughts on this.
 
I personally would like a tiny bit of travel; I think it would be more realistic for people who run road cars (GT5, Forza) - simple idea that may/may not work - what about a swappable rubber plate that sits on top of the load cell (or behind it?)? Different densities to fit different preferences perhaps - that doesn't seem like that would interfere with the load cell (if it covered it entirely), and may give just enough travel to feel "right"?

You could have the rubber plate notched to slide in/out easily (two pins on top and bottom of the load cell that can be removed if you don't want to use it). If that makes sense.

Also... I may be talking completely out my arse here. But it seems like it might work.
 
thechosenwonton
I personally would like a tiny bit of travel; I think it would be more realistic for people who run road cars (GT5, Forza) - simple idea that may/may not work - what about a swappable rubber plate that sits on top of the load cell (or behind it?)? Different densities to fit different preferences perhaps - that doesn't seem like that would interfere with the load cell (if it covered it entirely), and may give just enough travel to feel "right"?

You could have the rubber plate notched to slide in/out easily (two pins on top and bottom of the load cell that can be removed if you don't want to use it). If that makes sense.

Also... I may be talking completely out my arse here. But it seems like it might work.
Click to expand...

Decent concept, but having swappable options would lead to a further increase in cost -- as it stands, my current "stiff" version is my "prime cost" option in terms of cost and assembly. A "softer" option will require additional cost AND a slightly different mounting scheme. I could adapt my "prime cost" option to work with the "softer" mounting option, but then that would require modification of my base "prime cost" design, resulting in a "prime cost PLUS" option.

Making BOTH the "softer" option and the "prime cost PLUS" option available would ramp up the final cost even more, AND it would result in a significant increase to the assembly/mounting complexity for the end-users over my base concept.

So, good ideas, but I'm running into the practicalities of bringing a marketable version to life, while keeping it as simple as possible for end users in terms of installation. Increased installation complexity would also bring with it a greater need for end-user support, and added complexity always creates the potential for a situation where the customer may not end up being completely satisfied through no fault of your design.

Great concepts, though -- and exactly the stuff that I have considered (and somewhat rejected already). Thanks, though!

:)
 
Here's another quick update:

It seems like I have found a relatively cost-effective solution that will give the brake pedal a realistic-feeling amount of travel -- not as much travel as the brake pedal on my Ford Focus, but a lot more than the "stiff, no-travel" option that I was using. I'm talking about maybe 1/2" of travel (or around 12.7mm), but it's a significant improvement in terms of feel, and I think it probably doesn't feel too far off from a highly pressurized, race-prepped braking system now.

My initial impression was that this latest mod gives a more realistic-feeling pedal, but the braking inputs feel less direct (which I would expect to be the case).

After running just a few laps in iRacing at Charlotte Road Course in the Spec Racer Ford, though, I was able to lay down back-to-back laps in the mid-1:22 range, which is knocking on the door of my personal best, so there does seem to be some adaptation period, but I was pleasantly surprised that I seemed able to quickly get back up to speed with this mod (especially since I had been out of town for a week and hadn't had any chance to do any iRacing over that time). Repeated use seems to indicate that this solution works very well, and I've not had any braking-related issues that seem to point to the additional travel causing any lack of precision. Overall, the brakes seem appropriately linear and responsive.

Using this as part of my final production version means that the brakes WILL have some travel -- not a ton, and not as much as your average road car, perhaps, but not far off from what you currently get with Thrustmaster's "realistic brake mod" spring installed (or maybe a little less travel than that).

My only real hold-up now is waiting for the electronics package to be finalized. I'm working with Leo Bodnar on that, and that is the last piece to fall into place. With Leo's somewhat busy schedule, I'm not sure what kind of ETA to expect there, but once that's nailed-down we should be ready to go into production, I think.

I would still like to get some additional units out for use with some other beta testers, too, but at this point I may just forgo that and go straight into production.

More later.
 
For those who have been following the progress of my load cell mod project for the T500RS pedals, here's a brief update:

I have received the production prototype interface circuit boards and I got everything assembled over the weekend. The interface board works EXACTLY as planned, so the first actual production units should be ready shortly (as soon as I receive the necessary load cells, which have been ordered).

The first finished production prototype unit will be going to InsideSimRacing's Darin Gangi, and the second unit will be going to my good friend Cary Bettenhausen for further testing/evaluation.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with the final design at this point -- the installation should be fairly straightforward for the end users, and the overall functionality is solid and reliable.

The production load cell units will work when directly attached to the T500RS wheel, which will ensure that the T500RS whee/pedal setup remains fully compatible for use with PC-based sims and for use with the PS3. The pedals may also be used as stand-alone pedals (minus the wheel) using a Bodnar DFP/G25 USB adapter (or similar) when used with one of my Bodinhausen adapters (which are available through Sim-Sport.net).

I will NOT be taking pre-orders at this time, so please don't flood me with PMs asking about ordering. I anticipate at this point that the first production units will be available for sale starting in July (pending fulfillment of open parts orders), and I will make an announcement here regarding availability if I receive the necessary approval to do so.

More later, but at this point it looks like all the development work is behind me now, and the overall design is sufficiently finalized to justify full production using the current design.

:)
 
Thanks for the update John.

Someone on RD asked me once regarding the T500RS load-cell mod project- Is it a dynamic one in terms of pressure?
 
Excellent news John. Looking forward to ISR's review and I hope your efforts pay off and the mod is well received throughout the racing community.

Will the loadcell have strength adjustability like CSP's?
 
Last edited:
mykem
Thanks for the update John.

Someone on RD asked me once regarding the T500RS load-cell mod project- Is it a dynamic one in terms of pressure?
Click to expand...

Not sure if I fully understand the question, but the load cell will add a considerable amount of resistance -- I'm using a 35kg load cell, which works out to about 77lbs of force. With the mounting arrangement and the shock-absorbing linkage I've settled on, the pedal WILL have some travel to it (roughly 1/2" or so, or around 13mm, which doesn't seem like much, but it feels pretty good underfoot) -- this means it won't feel like a rigid, immobile, "ultra-pressurized" brake pedal; it WILL be firm, but it will have some pedal movement to help better simulate an actual brake pedal.

The end result is purely pressure-based, not distance-based like potentiometer-based pedals, and the load cell has fairly linear output based on pressure, meaning that the braking force increases steadily as the pressure applied increases, so I think the answer to your question is yes, the mod will be dynamic in terms of pressure.

occasionalracer
Will the loadcell have strength adjustability like CSP's?
Click to expand...

There will not be a mechanical adjustment available, and there will not be an adjustable offset potentiometer to vary the range of the signal from the load cell. With a 35kg load cell, though, it takes a fair amount of pressure to get full deflection, so in sims like iRacing, you can vary the amount of pressure required to achieve full braking based on how hard you press while doing the in-game calibration routine.

This approach has produced very satisfying results in testing for me, and it makes for a more simplified, lower-cost solution. Allowing for mechanical variations or adding a trim pot to allow for "tunable" brake force curves would both add to the overall assembly and installation complexity and it would increase the final cost, so I decided early on to use the K.I.S.S. approach. Fewer things to fail that way, too, which should make for greater reliability in the long run.
 
Last edited:
I just realized that I hadn't posted the comments from my beta tester -- Charlie Buscher is an iRacing member, and these are the comments that he posted on the iRacing message boards:

Hey all.
I received the Bodin load cell for T500rs pedals this weekend and wanted to throw up a quick update after spending some time with it Saturday and Sunday.

Have to say John really hit it out of the park with this one. Its VERY simple to install. Ingenious actually, you don't have to take the pedal set apart to install the load cell. John kept it simple and it works!

Installation is easy.
1. Remove realistic brake mod from T500rs pedals set
2. Remove pad and spring from realistic brake bracket.
3. Bolt load cell assembly to realistic brake mod bracket.
4. Reinstall brake mod bracket with load cell assembly to pedal set.

Plug and play with just a couple setup changes required.
1. Calibrate using Bodnar calibration software (bodnar cable required for stand alone pedals).
2. Set brake curve to 0 in Iracing options.
3. Recalibrate pedals.
4. Get on the track.

I will say for someone who has used a position based pedal for 18 years there is a slight learning curve for a pressure based system. With that said the accuracy is second to none. After a few laps getting used to difference between position based and pressure based I started to see my lap times getting back to where they should be. Once I'm completely used to the pressure based setup my braking will be better than it was with a position based brake. I have no doubt this is the simplest way to have an accurate load cell brake system on your T500rs pedal set.
Click to expand...

Charlie has a set of T500RS pedals that he purchased from a T500RS owner who didn't need the pedals -- he's been using the pedals in stand-alone mode minus the T500RS wheel, using a Bodinhausen adapter and a Bodnar adapter to provide a USB connection to his PC.

Note that Charlie has my second engineering prototype, which uses a different linkage than my final design -- his brake pedal is almost completely rigid, with almost no travel, and i have improved upon this with my latest design.

I will be providing Darin Gangi of insideSimRacingTV folks with my final production design, so when they do their review their comments will be based on the exact same hardware that I will be making available for purchase.
 
I am looking forward to ISR's review. Darin has a lot of experience with load cell brakes (CSP & CSP V2). Something Charlie Buscher is missing.

Nice to see the progress in this project. I consider this as a possible option for myself.

Thanks for keeping us updated John!
 
I technically own a CSR Elite, just receive a mail from Fanatec. But currently, it is an UPS man who is playing with my precious box :)

After seven weeks, here it comes :)
 
K_Soze
I technically own a CSR Elite, just receive a mail from Fanatec. But currently, it is an UPS man who is playing with my precious box :)

After seven weeks, here it comes :)
Click to expand...

That's great news to you. Did you just get the wheel alone or did you order pedals and shifters from Fanatec as well? How much did it cost you with tax + shipping + custom in Canadian currency? I'd like to compare the price difference between ordering directly from Fanatec and from http://www.simulation1.ca
 
The CSR Elite + G25/27 pedals adaptator + shipping is about 572 us $. I do not know how many taxes I will pay.

I will tell you as soon as I get the shipment.

About pedals and shifter, I will order Clubsport day one and wait for clubsport shifter.
 
I pick my wheel yesterday at the post office. I did not paid anything there, so it does cost me 572 us $ (450€ !?! :) )

Maybe I will have to pay taxes later ? Or customs things ?
 
K_Soze
I pick my wheel yesterday at the post office. I did not paid anything there, so it does cost me 572 us $ (450€ !?! :) )

Maybe I will have to pay taxes later ? Or customs things ?
Click to expand...

When I bought bass shakers from parts express (US) Fedex delivered the goods and billed me for the customs duty/tax about 2/3 weeks later. I Imagine it would be similar for you. Congrats on the wheel
 
Very nice wheel, I am really amazed by the base, and disapointed buy the rim. I hope Fanatec will not wait too long before release new elite rims.
 
K_Soze
Very nice wheel, I am really amazed by the base, and disapointed buy the rim. I hope Fanatec will not wait too long before release new elite rims.
Click to expand...

They said that there will be F1 rim but that is all.
 
blown540ci
Any news on progress John ?
Click to expand...

I am not sure if John visits these board regularly, but he posted on the iRacing forum recently. I think it would be fair to summarize his progress as, the mod is out for field testing. He isn't 100% sure the current design is to his standard and he might revise his design based on more testing.
 
Now I have fixed a Leds flickering issue, and spent enough time to file the plastic hard edges, I like the rim a lot. I know its light weight allows a more sharp feedback. It is a good point.
 
I purchased my Csr Elite from Simulation1 Systems and ive just had to use there services, I can tell you with confidence that those guys worked incredibly hard to get me back and running with a new Elite in no time at all. They handled everything from all of the support emails, videos of the defective product, and shipping+costs. I simply dropped off the wheel and within the next day walked out with my brand new base, and something that could have taken me a week maybe two lasted me a day!!
 
redmalloc
I am not sure if John visits these board regularly, but he posted on the iRacing forum recently. I think it would be fair to summarize his progress as, the mod is out for field testing. He isn't 100% sure the current design is to his standard and he might revise his design based on more testing.
Click to expand...

I'll be the owner of CSP V2'S by the time he is finished. So it's safe to say I've lost interest by now
 
Carson79
I'll be the owner of CSP V2'S by the time he is finished. So it's safe to say I've lost interest by now
Click to expand...

If you want a piece of crap that might or might not work, I'll send you one right now -- if you'd rather have a retail-ready product that WILL work, that's going to take some time and testing . . . and that's exactly what's going on now.

I have also set up a second tester with a production sample (Charlie was testing one of my early prototypes, not what I consider a "production-ready" unit) -- my second tester has substantial real-world experience with high-performance cars, and is also a CSP user. He feels that the mod represents an improvement over the stock T500 pedals, which was my goal, but in their current form limited travel and no adjustability like the CSPs, he prefers the amount of travel available with his CSP pedals. Not a bad assessment, IMO, because I didn't set out to "beat" the Fanatec CSP pedals, I set out to improve the T500 pedals and to give T500 owners a load cell option that wouldn't void their warranty, and that would retain all PS3 and PC compatibility.

Darin Gangi and Shaun Cole of InsideSimRacing.TV are testing another production sample now, and they will be confirming PS3 functionality. They received their production sample yesterday and installed it, and they shot video of the installation, so depending on their input and their assessment on how successful I've been in improving the performance of the stock T500 pedals, I am essentially ready to go into production provided I don't have to make any design changes.

That's where things stand at this point -- I'm anxiously awaiting some assessment from Darin and Shaun, and once I know more, then I'll know which direction I'll be heading. If my current design proves production- and (retail-) ready, then I'll have about a 4 week lag time based on the shipping times for the load cells themselves (I haven't done any stocking for production yet because I'm still not 100% certain this is the final design).

Hope this helps a bit.
 
Last edited:

Latest Posts

Back