Please Tell Me, what do you consider to be dirty racing?

[BallPtPenTheif]

So, I was under the impression that dirty racing was essentially playing bumper cars on the track as if it were a video game rather than respecting the cars. Am I mistaken here?

Last night I jump on a clean racing room, which is great since I personally don't enjoy jamming into people and general driving like a douche. Well, this one guy is doing well enough but his lines are too loose often leaving a car width on the inside and breaking too soon.

So, not thinking much about it, I take the inside line, break late to get my nose ahead of his and then assert the inside corner. This guy spazzes out, starts grinding his car into me to wedge me out of my line.. my nose cuts inside, my rear tires kick out, and I gear down and throttle up to drift out so I can stay on the track. This obviously pushes him off of his line and he freaks out on the microphone.

I don't have a mic so he's basically just telling everybody that I'm a dirty driver just to get me kicked. He just tells everybody that I'm intentionally drifting out from the inside to clip cars off of the inside line.

Now, am I in the wrong here?

 

[Camaroyenko]

N00bs.

 

[Negrumir]

Intentional contact and or poor driving.

Mistakes are fine, everyone makes them. If you meant to cause a negative affect with what you did, that's dirty. If you inadvertently caused a negative affect with your actions, oh well, just try not to do it again.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

What is the general rule for racing though? I thought that if your nose was ahead of the other guy entering the turn that generally it was your line. This guy would break too soon and I knew I could just break right after him, zip by with touching him, and then gain a half car lead entering the turn.

The irony here was that I was taking the inside line from the inside LATE, my speed loss on the exit would be huge and all he had to do was maintain his loose line and regain his lead on the inside exit... his nudging is actually the only thing that gave me the lead.

 

[Negrumir]

What is the general rule for racing though? I thought that if your nose was ahead of the other guy entering the turn that generally it was your line. This guy would break too soon and I knew I could just break right after him, zip by with touching him, and then gain a half car lead entering the turn.

The irony here was that I was taking the inside line from the inside LATE, my speed loss on the exit would be huge and all he had to do was maintain his loose line and regain his lead on the inside exit... his nudging is actually the only thing that gave me the lead.

I don't know too much about "general rules" and whatnot.

If he left space for you to get in and get ahead, it's perfectly expected for you to take advantage of that. As far as I can tell, it was a clean maneuver and he tried to cut off the opening he left. When he did that, you reacted and this caused you to start sliding, which in turn pushes him away.

You were in the right as far as I see from what you said. He left the space open, which is fine, and you took it. He was wrong to try and cut off your line. You were still right in trying to avoid the collision. Maybe you made a mistake when braking and caused yourself to start drifting, maybe there was nothing else you could have done.

So it was either a mistake or unavoidable. That's what I see, not dirty driving by any stretch of the imagination.

Maybe you you could have looked for another spot for a more clean pass, but you can't be expected to turn away an opportunity that was presented.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

The drift was the result of him rubbing the side of my car trying to wedge me out (even though I was already ahead of him) and me dropping a gear down to gain torque and use his pressure on my car to setup a drift to shove him off of me.

It seems verbosely complicated explaining it but at the time I was just thinking "Stay on the track!" and was doing everything I could from being shoved into the grass or even pit maneuvered into a spin out.

Clearly this dude thought he was justified and retaliating against my "dirty move" but I just wanted to check to make sure that breaking late on the inside line wasn't a dirty move in the first place.

 

[Slurm]

Yeah for me, the dirtiness/cleanliness comes down to intention. But it's often impossible to tell if someone is playing dirty or just making mistakes, especially with lag, language barriers and the difficulty of typing that you mentioned. I usually just turn the other cheek and carry on regardless, without getting emotionally involved. If I put my heart into GT5 online I find it very frustrating and a waste of energy.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

If I put my heart into GT5 online I find it very frustrating and a waste of energy.

Too true, I guess what bugged me is that the entire room was driving dirty as hell but I cut on the inside on one guy and then I get labeled the dirty player.

 

[Zenmervolt]

From here:

08: Corner Rights:

A:
When approaching the turn/apex of turn, the car which "holds" the inner side of turn has entrance-advantage and other driver(s) must refrain from endangering him by his actions.

B:
You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver’s position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.

C:
If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.

D:
If an ahead driver has clearly made an error to warrant a passing move, a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. However, the overtaking driver must still avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not justify a passing move. The ahead driver getting a bit out of shape at times doesn’t give you an automatic right to pass. You still have to judge if their error allows for a safe pass to take place.

E:
Drivers who are using PS2/PS3 controller MUST make additional effort in driving due to the fact they can't use side-view, and their perception of the other cars is thereby limited - extreme caution while maneuvering is required. If you are using a controller, you are required to set buttons up for side views as "I didn't see you." is not an excuse if you collide with another driver when racing.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Great info.. I looked up more stuff on corner rights in regards to online racing as well...

Live For Speed Rules
http://lfs-league.com/misc/Appeal Decision OLFSL NFAT Race 3 - Pool 1 - W1zard.pdf

In general: Take care to race clean/fair, i.e. do not hit other cars or obstacles, do not force other racers off the track […].
OLFSL applies and enforces the RaceSIM Rules of Racing (formerly Clean Racers Club rules).
C-2: You must drive responsibly, in a way that will not ruin the enjoyment for others.
O-1: To obtain right of road position in a corner, the overtaker's car must have substantial overlap of the car that is being overtaken,
before they reach the corner's turn-in point. Should the overtaking car not have enough overlap, the leading car may resume its
racing line without fear of contact.
With regard to RaceSIM rule O-1, OLFSL has adopted the following interpretation (included in OLFSL Rules): “overlap” = the
overtakers' car comes up alongside the ahead car, by half a car length or more.
O-3: The car on the inside has the right to inside room all the way through the corner - right up to the exit point. That car should not
be squeezed against the inside towards the apex area. The ahead driver can still battle for the position of course but must do so while
maintaining side room for the behind driver. The practice of going up the inside of an ahead car after that car has already turned in,
and where there was no established substantial overlap before the turn-in point, is sometimes referred to as barge passing, (i.e. you
barge your way past). Understand that barge passing is a high risk manoeuvre for both you and others. You have no rights what-soever as a barge passer.
O-5: Ahead drivers have the right to choose any line down a straight. The ahead driver may make one move to block the opposing
car, and one move to return to the racing line before the next corner - Unless the opposing car has overlap.
O-6: Ahead drivers have the right to take any line through a corner, unless an opposing car has overlap.
CT-5: The behind driver has a responsibility to not run into the back of a ahead driver. The ahead driver does not have to try to avoid
you. If all else fails, the behind driver should run their own car off the track to avoid such a collision.