Polite plea to PD regard AI`s

  • Thread starter Thread starter Andy-LK
  • 35 comments
  • 2,136 views

More competitive A1`s , A1`S that race not just drive around the track

  • yes please

    Votes: 69 94.5%

  • No thankyou

    Votes: 4 5.5%
  • Total voters
    73
A

Andy-LK

Messages
166
Messages
Andy-LK
I'm sure you have read in this forum many many people asking if the AI`s could be more competitive take more risks drive like they want to win, give the game user a challenge instead of make one feel like they have just handed first place to you as a gift

There have been many ideas for this ranging from self learning AI`s to ghost times to just more race oriented AI`s

The AI`s as they stand at the moment are just no where near competitive enough

I will give an example :

German race in Extreme

I entered in a below bhp and over weight car with sport tyres and no aids yet despite this I still managed 1st place by the second bend and at the end of the first lap I was so far in the lead that the race now just felt pointless as I was no longer racing I was merely now just driving around killing time for the remaining 4 laps

Also bear in mind that I do not by any means consider myself Pro GT driver I would give myself a 7/10

Now I don't know if anyone from PD reads these forums but please if you do consider my polite request or more of a plea really

PS I have added a poll for others to sign/vote so as for you to see how much needed this AI make over is or is not depending on how the vote goes also to keep this thread clean and polite

Kind regards
Andy
 
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I agree, but it's AI, not A1. A1 is a steak sauce, AI is Artificial Intelligence.
 
freedomweasel
I agree, but it's AI, not A1. A1 is a steak sauce, AI is Artificial Intelligence.
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I would be interested to see some steak sauce with AI, would it cook itself?
:)
 
I have just run one more quick test,

Special events 4x4

I used a down graded R34 low on bhp sport tyres and weighted

rolling start as soon as it said go I stopped and let the AI`s drive off I waited a few seconds then I set off , now bearing in mind my car was down on power and weighted I still easily gained first place before the end of the first lap

so I slowed down and paid close attention to the AI`s driving style, first thing I noticed was how they slowed down way to early for the bends i mean seriously to early

second thing I noticed was how they gave up and let you take the bend, no challenge no nothing

then thirdly I felt that they showed no awareness of you even being on the track at times , I mean they just pull across as if your not even there then seem to suddenly realise that you are and brake giving you all the road you need again no fight just slow down and let you take the lead,

again I won this so call race far to easy even with me taking the time to stop/slow down and wait

To have the time to mess around and run tests in a race sit and wait for the AI`s to catch back up is not how racing should be done , I should be pushing all the time to get a win, fighting off chance over takes and risky moves by the AI`s

I will just let this thread run now

Andy
 
freedomweasel
I agree, but it's AI, not A1. A1 is a steak sauce, AI is Artificial Intelligence.
Click to expand...

mmmmm...steak...
:)

I think it is silly that I have to downgrade my car to below the AI pilot cars in order to have a good race with the AI. extremely silly. The AI should be scalable so I can turn it up and/or down to match my level!!
:ouch:

All AI pilots in all the race game have faults. Yes, an improved AI competing with the player using a similar car is important. please work on this, PD. Perhaps you (PD) should try contacting the persons at SimBin? They have an excellent pilot AI for their games (GTR,GTR2,Race07,RaceEvo)
:)
 
make then run at my lap times please...in the givin car....like if im using my skyline have them run my skyline times.... if im in a x2010 have them run at those times
 
Patrocles
mmmmm...steak...
:)

I think it is silly that I have to downgrade my car to below the AI pilot cars in order to have a good race with the AI. extremely silly. The AI should be scalable so I can turn it up and/or down to match my level!!
:ouch:

All AI pilots in all the race game have faults. Yes, an improved AI competing with the player using a similar car is important. please work on this, PD. Perhaps you (PD) should try contacting the persons at SimBin? They have an excellent pilot AI for their games (GTR,GTR2,Race07,RaceEvo)
:)
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I agree it is just daft, AI`s have moved on a lot since GT4 but for some reason not for PD , MNC-LA have self learning AI`s , code masters A1`s are always on the ball and don't give you an inch, even NFS/Shifts AI`s come right back at you if you nudge them and the chances all these AI`s take in order to win is what racing is all about , so why are PD still using outdated AI`s with no race pedigree?
 
who voted no? you like easy games that have no skill to play?
 
They need to put a difficulty option in it so players that aren't that great can still play competitively.
 
TeddyBear-420
who voted no? you like easy games that have no skill to play?
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Don't be mean to that guy. He just might not be good as you and is finding it competitive as it is now.
 
It's definitely in the corners where it goes wrong, the breaking is too early, the cornering is slow, and the accelerating isn't aggressive either.

I've had many crashes (with AI cars) in which I'd say 66% weren't my fault; even though I'm trying to overtake and take the lead, you don't just "shut the door" at the last second when you see I'm going 20 km/h more than you.


I'm not going to complain about the AI cars not letting you pass (getting out of the way) when you lapped them, but hey, if you want eye for detail...
 
ANNIHILATOR90
It's definitely in the corners where it goes wrong, the breaking is too early, the cornering is slow, and the accelerating isn't aggressive either.

I've had many crashes (with AI cars) in which I'd say 66% weren't my fault; even though I'm trying to overtake and take the lead, you don't just "shut the door" at the last second when you see I'm going 20 km/h more than you.


I'm not going to complain about the AI cars not letting you pass (getting out of the way) when you lapped them, but hey, if you want eye for detail...
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They break long before they have to and take the corner with such care its unreal and then they just seem to "slowly" pull out from the bend? and other than the RX7 seasonal race I never see them make a mistake and why is that ? is because they are not racing they are merely driving around the track taking far to much time and care on every move they make.
 
Just an example to back you up, I think it is Schwarzland League B? (The lower of the two) I won that event with a fully tuned Kubelwagon, I battered that BMW at Tokyo (I think it was). I think though I had 60bhp (honestly not sure) and I shouldn't be able to beat BMW 120's etc.

Something I have noticed about the AI now as I'm racing without ABS is that I'm braking closer to the AI. So I'm thinking the AI races without any aids turned on? As can be evidenced from the AI skidding around on that Eiffel track! I do still win these races without any aids and no abs ... But I found that interesting.

So now as I'm thinking about it ... Should SRF & ABS be enabled for the AI? They can brake later and can be a bit faster in the corners?
 
Just AI with an ounce of common sense at least.
 
Difficulty levels like in F1:2010!

Btw ... I voted no to annoy Teddy Bear :)
 
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A driving simulator should not have opponents that rubber band(speed up when behind, slow down when ahead.) Lap times by the AI should be consistent and not be influenced by how fast(or not fast) you are going.
 
The rubber banding is horribly obvious in the seasonal F1 races atm
 
Something I've found is you can chase an AI car for laps then when you get past, the car quickly becomes a spot in the rearview, like he'd just shrugged and said "okay, if you want it that bad..."
 
To be honest although I think GT5 is a genuine marvel from PD, I am starting to get bored with it.

Within the actual experience there is not a lot of actual game and feats to do. The game is just too easy, by far!! The A.I. is a joke and once you become proficient (especially with a wheel) the races are a breeze and as the OP stated it is like driving around the tracks with no purpose...

Such a shame as it means people will give up the game earlier than they would have if the A.I. was better and there was more challenging events. Finally, the endurance events are garbage and after reaching the latter levels of what game there is, the endurance events are some kind of reward - yeh right!!
 
The enduro events are a must for all masochist gamers out there (you know who you are...)
 
I know it's an old thread but the comment about the Ai yielding is so true. I was wondering has anyone else changed their tactics like I have...I now actually overtake around the OUTSIDE of the AI in GT5 almost all the time now. It is impossible to closely follow an Ai car mid corner as they will often back off as soon as you get close to them resulting in me punting them up the chuff. It was never like this originally, ok it was slow mid corner but didn't back off like it does now.
 
ashes619
They need to put a difficulty option in it so players that aren't that great can still play competitively.
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I completely agree this would be an awesome feature!
 
I won the level 23 American indy race in a rm Camaro on sport soft
I was down 200-300 horsepower and up 200-400 Kg's of weight
I won by 2.5 seconds over GT race cars and the 2j race car
 
MNLumberjack
I won the level 23 American indy race in a rm Camaro on sport soft
I was down 200-300 horsepower and up 200-400 Kg's of weight
I won by 2.5 seconds over GT race cars and the 2j race car
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Hey fellow Minnesotan,

That doesn't even make sense! All the computer has to do is drive in circles in that race near full speed! WTH! The AI is incompetent!
 
speedracer_-44
A driving simulator should not have opponents that rubber band(speed up when behind, slow down when ahead.)
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In other words, they shouldn't perform like real racers? Real-world drivers in most racing series will alter their approach based on the situation, including easing off when comfortably in front. C.f. Vettel this year in both the Australian and Malaysian GPs -- consensus view among fans and insiders alike is that he didn't push anywhere near as hard as he and the car were able once he had a comfortable lead.
 
I don't know if someone else has made this comment haven't read entire thread... But I think the basic problem w/ the steak sauce... erm, I mean AI drivers... is that they're predictable, so to try to make them "more competitive", they just have them drive faster or more aggressive. Problem with that is that they're even more predictable when aggressive.

That said, being older & seeing how far AIs have come over the years, and knowing something about the math involved with these games... and knowing that it is point blank impossible for a computer to simulate "true random"... I realize how difficult it could be to make an AI unpredictable. But the fact that other games are generally reported to have "better AIs" makes you wonder why PD isn't using a technique that's obviously possible.

BUT, my bf always says "Gran turismo isn't really a race simulator, it's a driving simulator, and there's a difference."

My bf always complains "it's a driving mission test, not a race"... about the fact that they make a lot of the races so that there's JUST ONE car to compete with, that always wins (if you don't). The reason for that, I can't comprehend. I would think there would be a way to not have at least that not be the case, fairly easily.

Being a not-great player-racer, my opinion is that it would be more fun if I didn't have to hop my car up so that I could easily beat all but one car in the race, just to race with the one best car. And that if I don't upgrade my car to beat those cars easily... Then I feel like the race is more fun... but then in some cases, I might have more fun, but during that fun, the strangely much better lead car gets far enough ahead that I can't possibly win. There seems to be a very annoying problematic dynamic with that arrangement... that would surely seem unsatisfactory to everyone from super-good hardcore gamers right down to poor driving casual part-time players.
 
Another equally bad problem IMO is that a lot of the A-Spec races have one really fast car in the race. Dream Car would be a lot more re-playable if it weren't for that Jaguar(?) that always takes off and leaves everyone behind. Same with the Sauber in All Stars and the S2000 Turbo in Tuning Car Competition.
 
I hated doing the Top Gear challenge in the Lotus; I would make it out of Chicago and then get pit manuevered by the guy slamming into me. Then the ****s would take the hammerhead too slow making me bump into them and DQ'd. Eventually got the gold but I was getting frustrated.
 
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