Poll: Do you think the SR/Penalty system should be reformed?

[NommyNom]

I just had a fun idea. What if they made SR deductions also cost players their own in game credits? It would be difficult to try and calculate it but depending on how much damage your car sustains PLUS the car(s) you hit and damaged will get totaled at the end and they deduct it from your winnings/bank.

 

[stevenhiggster]

I just had a fun idea. What if they made SR deductions also cost players their own in game credits? It would be difficult to try and calculate it but depending on how much damage your car sustains PLUS the car(s) you hit and damaged will get totaled at the end and they deduct it from your winnings/bank.

Just compounds the misery for those who are wrongly penalised.
I don't think the problem is the actual penalties, but more the fact that quite often the wrong people are receiving the penalty.

 

[gmaki]

When I posted in this thread yesterday I was SR A and after 3 races last night I am SR S. It really isn't that difficult and the racing in A and S are much better. I think I got punted off the track twice last night and after watching both in replay I think they were both accidental, and both in the first two laps. It seems to me the system is working very much as designed.

 

[cleanLX]

@gmaki - agreed, I too went from A to S in 3 races last night.
Also agreed the racing is much better, I got bumped from behind once last night, but not enough to force me off track, just enough for me to go wayy off line... that in itself is better, but, it gets better yet again... that driver slowed, let me back onto the racing line and backed off for a second before getting back to racing.

 

[AeonGaiden]

Personally it has no point. In one race I had 2 drivers in the last lap on 2 different corners knock me off so I would blast out of the track so they could be pole position and they were ranked S. Even though the race finished and I was not too far behind them, obviously their penalty was too low as they still stayed ahead of me on the list even though I raced 4 clean laps with no penalty seconds. Its useless.

 

[stevenhiggster]

@gmaki - agreed, I too went from A to S in 3 races last night.
Also agreed the racing is much better, I got bumped from behind once last night, but not enough to force me off track, just enough for me to go wayy off line... that in itself is better, but, it gets better yet again... that driver slowed, let me back onto the racing line and backed off for a second before getting back to racing.

You got bumped at the spoon curve per chance?
I got bumped 3 times braking into there last night, I think a lot of people brake far too late there and run out wide.
I made up at least 3 positions there last night from people braking too late and running off the track.

 

[cleanLX]

yes.
and me too, picked up spots there on all 3 races.

 

[LordDrift]

I just had a fun idea. What if they made SR deductions also cost players their own in game credits? It would be difficult to try and calculate it but depending on how much damage your car sustains PLUS the car(s) you hit and damaged will get totaled at the end and they deduct it from your winnings/bank.

Currency isn't worth much in GTS. I've bought 6 cars and own almost half if not almost all the cars in the game, every aftermarket wheel, liveries are free, I get paid to warm up, and have millions of dollars in the bank. #TWISM.

My SR is more important to me than money at this point.

 

[Spade13]

TO ANY ADMINS: Is there any way I can edit this poll? I just thought of a better way to figure out where the community stands on the SR system.

Rather than saying YES or NO to it being reformed. Maybe it's a better idea to ask how well people think the system works.

so for example: POLL: How well do you think the SR/Penalty System works?
1. It works 100% of the times.
2. It works 75% of the times.
3. It works 50% of the times.
4. It works 25% of the times.
5. It works 0% of the times.

Thanks.

 

[Spade13]

Here are the problems I see with the SR/penalty system, and why I think it should be reformed!

• Wrong person gets penalized in side-impact collisions. If somebody hits you from the side, then almost always it's the victim that gets penalized and not the culprit. I posted a video highlighting this issue in another thread, and I noticed somebody posted a video highlighting this issue on this thread, too.
• Corner-cutting penalties are inconsistent. Sometimes you could have all 4 wheels off the track in a corner and not get penalized, while other times only 2 wheels off track will cause a penalty. There needs to be consistency in this.
  
• Getting penalized for being rear-ended while serving a penalty. If you slow down to serve out a penalty, and somebody rear-ends you, then you will get penalized. As long as there aren't any cars directly behind you and you pull off to the side then you should not get penalized for serving a penalty. That should be the other driver's fault for rear-ending you.
• Yellow flag penalties. If a yellow flag is triggered because two cars are in an accident, the system only registers one of the cars, and you get penalized for passing the second crashed car. This needs to fixed.
• THERE NEEDS TO BE A PROPER EXPLANATION OF THE RACING RULES. The two videos in GT Sport don't adequately explain what constitutes a negative SR rating/penalty and what is proper cleaning racing. Polyphony must include this if it expects players to drive cleanly. I think a 10-minute video explaining the racing rules, what constitutes a negative SR/penalty, and what is the clean and proper thing to do, is absolutely necessary.

 

[mokalovesoulmat]

I would like to vote "The game is out for almost 2 month, give PD some more time to review player gameplay data to adjust SR/penalty system".

Honestly I admit this kind of thing is supposed to be judged by humans, I believe it is difficult to judge by a software. But looking by what PD do I have a little faith and just let PD do their best.

 

[oik01]

The goal of the system is to classify people into groups based on how cleanly they drive. The fact that A and S drive a lot cleaner is a testament to it working.
I think people need taper their expectations. It is not practical to expect the system to figure out the penalties most of the time. What it should be expected to do is slowly bring up people who race cleanly into the ranks where they will have fewer incidents to get penalized. It does that well even though with individual incidents the discrimination is poor. Over the course of full races or multiple races, you will have far less incidents than the average ( by probability principles) if you are not causing any incidents. Even though you will be incorrectly blamed for some, so will the other average clean drivers and it will be less than the other less careful drivers. You will keep getting upgraded to the better cleaner groups. Stop focusing on single events and where the blame lies. Instead focus on being involved in less events than the reckless driver. If you do so ... you will eventually find yourself in S rating groups

 

[Dylle1978]

The goal of the system is to classify people into groups based on how cleanly they drive. The fact that A and S drive a lot cleaner is a testament to it working.
I think people need taper their expectations. It is not practical to expect the system to figure out the penalties most of the time. What it should be expected to do is slowly bring up people who race cleanly into the ranks where they will have fewer incidents to get penalized. It does that well even though with individual incidents the discrimination is poor. Over the course of full races or multiple races, you will have far less incidents than the average ( by probability principles) if you are not causing any incidents. Even though you will be incorrectly blamed for some, so will the other average clean drivers and it will be less than the other less careful drivers. You will keep getting upgraded to the better cleaner groups. Stop focusing on single events and where the blame lies. Instead focus on being involved in less events than the reckless driver. If you do so ... you will eventually find yourself in S rating groups

Sure... But sometimes, when you're on a great lap, and maybe like top 3, and somebody spinning out off control from behind and puts you in the sandtrap, plus you're getting 10 seconds penalty, THAT's when the system doesn't work, and that's when most "average" drivers feel the need to either punt the sucker into next week, or consider to loose a controller ;-)

 

[TeWheke]

What about an option for I accept that getting this right is difficult so am happy for them to keep making incremental improvements and accept that it will take a while to get this right but also acknowledge that's frustrating for players because right now it still needs a lot of work.

Rather than this Brexit style in/out poll?

 

[gmaki]

I have an idea. Your DR rating should not be moved up unless your SR is at "S". That way no matter how fast your lap times are you have to be able to do them cleanly before you can move up in DR.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I have an idea. Your DR rating should not be moved up unless your SR is at "S". That way no matter how fast your lap times are you have to be able to do them cleanly before you can move up in DR.

DR rating is the rating that is about speed, lap times and race pace. SR ratings are about racing incidents, contact with other racers and off road excursions so basically being in control of your race pace.

Sport Mode races use the SR ratings as the initial and primary matching tool and then match drivers with the closest DR ratings next. Of course this varies by how many racers may be online racing in a region at a certain time so at times the matchings seem to be better than others. It also seems there are "prime times" when the reckless crasher's, rammer's and bulldozers are more prevalent and if you are looking for cleaner races then you should figure out when those times are in your region and avoid them.

But since DR and SR are based on entirely separate criteria holding one back because of the other is not really a viable or in my opinion a desirable solution. There are both clean and dirty slow racers and clean and dirty fast racers, the solution is to make the SR ranks harder to climb to begin with.

 

[gmaki]

DR rating is the rating that is about speed, lap times and race pace. SR ratings are about racing incidents, contact with other racers and off road excursions so basically being in control of your race pace.

Sport Mode races use the SR ratings as the initial and primary matching tool and then match drivers with the closest DR ratings next. Of course this varies by how many racers may be online racing in a region at a certain time so at times the matchings seem to be better than others. It also seems there are "prime times" when the reckless crasher's, rammer's and bulldozers are more prevalent and if you are looking for cleaner races then you should figure out when those times are in your region and avoid them.

But since DR and SR are based on entirely separate criteria holding one back because of the other is not really a viable or in my opinion a desirable solution. There are both clean and dirty slow racers and clean and dirty fast racers, the solution is to make the SR ranks harder to climb to begin with.

yeah I know, which is literally where my idea came from. You can in fact advance in DR while being a horrible sportsman. I am saying you should not be able to advance in one, until you have proven yourself in the other.

In any event it is just an idea, off the top of my head, posted on a message board with no official status whatsoever.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I am saying you should not be able to advance in one, until you have proven yourself in the other.

But then you would be holding a driver in a lower classification that is totally based on speed that may be turning lap times 10 seconds or more faster than the average driver within that classification. How is that fair for them, the slower drivers in that classification to be racing against him?

Some players it seems do not care to have the higher Sr ratings and the contact style of racing is what they may even prefer. The current SR system once it is tweaked to make advancing and retaining the higher ratings more difficult will sort the drivers by their style of driving or racing mostly as intended. The cleaner racers with fewer incidents will be in the higher ratings and the high incident drivers will be in the lower rankings.

This system is a new venture for PD and just like the DR system which just got some adjustments in the last update due to the on line player base with the prior criteria was too loaded towards the middle and bottom tiers and to thin at the upper tiers so the criteria was changed and altered to try to more evenly distribute the players to hopefully eliminate needing to use 4 DR classes of drivers to fill some lobbies.

I really feel like PD will keep adjusting on all the systems DR, SR and Penalties until they get a balance that works for the majority.

 

[daschund]

As most of the votes say, the system needs fixing/tweaking. Yesterday I was at a race where I had a better exit from the turn before the long straight and was going to overtake him and he kept ramming me on the side (in the middle of the straight) until I ended up in the gravel box. I lost 5 positions (no time penalty) and he lost nothing. There was one race a couple of weeks ago where someone rammed me from behind in a turn (as in the person didn't even brake, my car went flying into the guard rail and back to the track facing the wrong direction), then somehow I wasn't ghosted and got rammed again, and then a third time on the same incident, none of which was my fault. I went from an S to a C in one race. And then when you're a C and you have to race against other Cs you get hit left and right the whole time.

So yes, there's definitely a lot of room for improvement, and I think we can't say "It is what it is, deal with it". If that was our philosophy we would still be playing GT1 in a Playstation 1. It's not because we say it needs to get better that we're trashing Polyphony or that we will give up on GTS. It's just that we want a better game with a more enjoyable experience overall.

 

[mirial]

Slowing down ( so long as it's not sudden ) when in front dosent make it your fault.... a defensive driving line is often slower but perfectly legal. ..

I'm sure as your DR advances in the game, then they could gradually reduce the tolerance for when penalties kick in, just based on the fact that many A races have very little contact. Defensive moves when done properly, aren't massively slower, so drivers operating within a larger margin for error for when penalties activate in the event of contact, should still be ok. It would potentially mean that A S / S S drivers have very little margin for error when driving defensively however, unless they drive beyond their personal average for that given piece of track in order to build some tolerance in the event of a collision.

 

[Veinz]

I haven't had much problems with it myself other than the odd BS penalty here and there, sure it can be tweaked a bit more but I like it a lot for the most part. It's certainly better than no penalty system.

 

[baldgye]

Here are the problems I see with the SR/penalty system, and why I think it should be reformed!

• Wrong person gets penalized in side-impact collisions. If somebody hits you from the side, then almost always it's the victim that gets penalized and not the culprit. I posted a video highlighting this issue in another thread, and I noticed somebody posted a video highlighting this issue on this thread, too.
• Corner-cutting penalties are inconsistent. Sometimes you could have all 4 wheels off the track in a corner and not get penalized, while other times only 2 wheels off track will cause a penalty. There needs to be consistency in this.
  
• Getting penalized for being rear-ended while serving a penalty. If you slow down to serve out a penalty, and somebody rear-ends you, then you will get penalized. As long as there aren't any cars directly behind you and you pull off to the side then you should not get penalized for serving a penalty. That should be the other driver's fault for rear-ending you.
• Yellow flag penalties. If a yellow flag is triggered because two cars are in an accident, the system only registers one of the cars, and you get penalized for passing the second crashed car. This needs to fixed.
• THERE NEEDS TO BE A PROPER EXPLANATION OF THE RACING RULES. The two videos in GT Sport don't adequately explain what constitutes a negative SR rating/penalty and what is proper cleaning racing. Polyphony must include this if it expects players to drive cleanly. I think a 10-minute video explaining the racing rules, what constitutes a negative SR/penalty, and what is the clean and proper thing to do, is absolutely necessary.

The first point is something that I see constantly;
I got penalty and they got nothing!
When you actually have no idea what penalty the other driver did or didn't get.


The last point is very important I think, the access to Sport mode needs to have a proper lesson and not two vague 2min videos about making yourself look good. It's a joke really, I've seen karting videos that do a better job of explaining rules and behaviour than those two videos.... and two videos are not enough. There needs to be proper explanations of how to drive and how to deal with situations.

 

[Outspacer]

The first point is something that I see constantly;
I got penalty and they got nothing!
When you actually have no idea what penalty the other driver did or didn't get.

Since 1.06 you do, in tiny text. I've had -SR without it showing anything there, meaning it judged it all my fault, and I've seen the text at the same time as the -SR marker when blame is shared.

1. However, I have had some bumps from behind that I'm sure were hard enough to attract action, and seen nothing - so it doesn't seem to show us when someone else is blamed. I'd call that a bug, but maybe it was a design decision.

2. Also, although the text includes the time penalty the other driver got, I haven't yet seen anything other than 00:00 - so possibly whenever a time penalty is given, blame has landed on the other driver and then #1 applies.

I'd rather see penalties shown next to driver's names in the list on the HUD, for not only those I'm involved in incidents with, and including whatever time penalty they have left to serve.

I think it's likely that only one driver will get a time penalty out of a hard two car collision, so if that's the case you'd know that if you got it, the other didn't.