POLL: FIA Manufacturer Series & Nations Cup vs Group specific championships

[mirial]

I'm interested to know if there is a preference for Group specific championships in GTS rather than the current Manufacturer Series and Nations Cup. Please see Pros/Cons below to help with your choice and advise of anything that could be added. For those that vote No, I'd be grateful if you could please explain why. It's important to read the pros/cons as the suggested format would be much more flexible and would cater for a much wider range of preferences than the current format. Thanks.

The suggested Group championships would comprise of a different group race each day, once per week, ie; N400 / Gr.4 / Gr.3 / Gr.2 / Gr.1 / one-make / one-make with the aim of potentially allowing the thoroughbred car groups open settings, and longer races. Championships would typically have 6-8 rounds lasting 6-8 weeks. Other groups could be alternated 6-8 weeks on and 6-8 weeks off to make full use of all the cars.

If participating numbers are a concern, then Groups could be condensed to slightly enforce participation as most players have their preference for a car type, ie,
Saloons / GTs / High downforce thoroughbreds, and there are more than enough groups that fit those specs. Groups could be alternated as above.

Current FIA Manufacturer Series

Pros:
-High frequency of racing twice per week suits many, particularly younger drivers
-Doesn't alienate beginner or intermediate from elite drivers because Gr.4 contributes as much as Gr.3 in points.
-Close racing with well-matched cars
-Tests driver adaptability moderately

Cons:
-High frequency of racing twice per week doesn't suit many, particularly older drivers
-Almost all cars are biased with the inexperienced driver in mind using a DS4 which doesn't allow elite drivers to develop further and may favour experienced players of that bias.

Current FIA Nations Cup

Pros:
-High frequency of racing twice per week suits many, particularly younger drivers
-Doesn't alienate beginner or intermediate drivers from elite drivers because there are sufficient rounds using entry level cars
-Close racing with well-matched cars with often the same cars.
-Tests driver adaptability moderately

Cons:
-High frequency of racing twice per week doesn't suit many, particularly older drivers
-Almost all cars are biased with the inexperienced driver in mind using a DS4 which doesn't allow elite drivers to develop further and may favour players of that bias.

Group championships

Pros:
-Normal frequency of racing once per week in at least one group per week will suit many
-Entry level groups would attract all driver abilities without alienation as settings would be closed
-Advanced/Elite groups would have open settings allowing for more variation in driving style for TTs, races and race outcomes.
-Longer races for advanced groups could produce more interesting outcomes and would reduce aggressive driving.
-Manufacturer representation could be maintained in both Gr.4 and Gr.3, albeit separately.
-Much more clarity with a group hierarchy whilst maintaining accessibility with the right experience.
-Should be much easier and quicker for PD to make blanket changes for all cars if settings are open for Advanced and Elite groups.
-Suits those that are specialists of car types and may refine their ability
-Regular frequency of one-make championships that have proven to be popular.
-Much better usage of cars in GT, something which gets talked about often.
-Groups could be alternated from 8 weeks on, to 8 weeks off to allow much better car usage

Cons:
-Normal frequency of racing once per week in at least one group per week may not suit some, but staggering similar groups within the 7-day week might be acceptable; ie if a player is unable to make Gr.3 on Saturday, they could do Gr.2 on a Wednesday.
-Open settings would probably increase the gaps at all ability levels, but then this could open up areas of opportunity for experimentation of setups in races for advanced drivers at least.
-Potential alienation for beginners with the difference in TT lap times who wish to race in an advanced group.
-Open settings would increase prep time required for each race, but this would be acceptable once set-ups get exchanged and refined.
-Doesn’t enforce driver adaptability
-Are 7 races per week and perhaps 3 per day technically possible with the current servers?

 

[SUPRASTAR0003]

I’d rather see a Gr.B Manufacturers series in the off season. Only nine manufacturers to choose from. Would make the leaderboards more interesting.

 

[mirial]

I’d rather see a Gr.B Manufacturers series in the off season. Only nine manufacturers to choose from. Would make the leaderboards more interesting.

Indeed, this format doesn't have to run continuously, and other or less popular groups could be swapped out for another 6-8 weeks. Usually, players need to take a break from their preferred championships any way.

To me, this whole structure just seems like pure common sense which makes me think that there was something technically or legally binding that prevented this structure since the inception of GTS.

 

[monkeywall]

From what I read about Gtsport before it's release I got the impression that's what PD was going to do. If they did do this I may have kept playing.

 

[mirial]

From what I read about Gtsport before it's release I got the impression that's what PD was going to do. If they did do this I may have kept playing.

I think this was a very arbitrary move considering the huge compromises they have made to accommodate beginners which IMO, goes against the nature of a racing driver mentality. In hindsight, I maybe should have done iracing two years ago and invested my cash there instead of GTS. I took a gamble believing it would naturally be a global version of GT6, but I check in now and again to see if it's going in the preferred direction.

TBH, I find almost all the cars setup together with the other compromises very tiring to drive and akin to cycling down hill into a head wind with the brakes rubbing heavily.

 

[stpatty]

I think the Nations Cup should have fewer Gr.3 and Gr.4 races to try and accommodate this. The Manufacturer Series is specifically for those classes, and there's usually a decent amount of variety there. In Nations races, these classes usually devolve into a meta battle, so I don't really see the point.

That said, with the amount of off-season/exhibition seasons you get in Nations I don't see why you couldn't have 'themed' seasons focusing on specific classes or cars.

 

[mirial]

314 views, 17 votes.....

 

[Pigems]

You can count me out of anything that involves tuning, I want to race people in the same car set up the same way, not race their tunes.

 

[watto79]

I don't really care what the championships are made up of, as we all have access to the same pool of cars. I just wish they would mix up the days they run them on. I was pretty excited about the Supra Championship but then found out its on a Saturday afternoon only so a complete no go for me.

I'm all for some more events, just do them on more days than just Saturdays and Wednesdays.

 

[zzz_pt]

No for a couple of reasons:

1) N classes are way too unbalanced. Gr.4 and Gr.3 are already a pain the but for PD to tweak.

2) Not enought cars in some race car categories. Gr.1 is all over the place, for instance. You have Group C cars from different eras mixed with Hybrids, the 908 and Tomawaks (vision GT cars).

3) I can't see PD putting a race in a live event with old race cars. Iconic road cars is enough and the results are always a bit ridiculous, given the speed and handling differences between the cars.

I wouldn't mind seeing more categories if there were more real, modern cars for each of them.

 

[mirial]

You can count me out of anything that involves tuning, I want to race people in the same car set up the same way, not race their tunes.

I know there are a lot of people that feel that way, and I would accept stock settings if there were a variety of balances to choose from depending on the car, but the blanket stock settings for everyone is wrong. I can't understand why PD can't make them much more acceptable because there are all the assists anyone could want, but perhaps there is some stigma attached. Open settings would sort itself out because most are in clubs with one or two who know what they are doing, plus there are plenty of guys posting good setups across the internet. This is partly why I suggested once a week so that practice and setup time could be combined.

I don't really care what the championships are made up of, as we all have access to the same pool of cars. I just wish they would mix up the days they run them on. I was pretty excited about the Supra Championship but then found out its on a Saturday afternoon only so a complete no go for me.

I'm all for some more events, just do them on more days than just Saturdays and Wednesdays.

That's why I mentioned staggering similar groups to suit those unable to make weekends or weekdays.

No for a couple of reasons:

1) N classes are way too unbalanced. Gr.4 and Gr.3 are already a pain the but for PD to tweak.

2) Not enought cars in some race car categories. Gr.1 is all over the place, for instance. You have Group C cars from different eras mixed with Hybrids, the 908 and Tomawaks (vision GT cars).

3) I can't see PD putting a race in a live event with old race cars. Iconic road cars is enough and the results are always a bit ridiculous, given the speed and handling differences between the cars.

I wouldn't mind seeing more categories if there were more real, modern cars for each of them.

I agree most of these are just a laugh and seem to be more like demonstration festival events, but we have Gr.2, Superformula and RedBull Juniors virtually unused where they are more exciting to drive and race and don't have the BoP issues either. This is just bewildering why they can't even allocate some space to just use one of these groups in their own championship.

 

[Pigems]

I know there are a lot of people that feel that way, and I would accept stock settings if there were a variety of balances to choose from depending on the car, but the blanket stock settings for everyone is wrong. I can't understand why PD can't make them much more acceptable because there are all the assists anyone could want, but perhaps there is some stigma attached like what school or university you went to. Open settings would sort itself out because most are in clubs with one or two who know what they are doing, plus there are plenty of guys posting good setups across the internet. This is partly why I suggested once a week so that practice and setup time could be combined.



That's why I mentioned staggering similar groups to suit those unable to make weekends or weekdays.


I agree most of these are just a laugh and seem to be more like demonstration festival events, but we have Gr.2, Superformula and RedBull Juniors virtually unused where they are more exciting to drive and race and don't have the BoP issues either. This is just bewildering why they can't even allocate some space to just use one of these groups in their own championship.

But thats’s the point is, then you couldn’t just jump on and race, you’d have to research settings before ever starting, and then again after starting just to stay competitive. Just to make the game “easier” for the drivers who know how to tune? A better driver can adapt to any car, any tune, I say let them make the game easier for new guys to get involved.

Id rather know that when someone beats me, it’s because they outdrove me, not because they out tuned me.

 

[mirial]

A better driver can adapt to any car, any tune, I say let them make the game easier for new guys to get involved.

Id rather know that when someone beats me, it’s because they outdrove me, not because they out tuned me.

But take a look at the current Suzuka replays for the Dailies and Nations which just exposes the farcical handling. It's just embarrassingly bad for the world of sim racing, and is just a test of perseverance and gamer quackery talent. It's just teaching beginners how to be failures at sim racing.

 

[Pigems]

But take a look at the current Suzuka replays for the Dailies and Nations which just exposes the farcical handling. It's just embarrassingly bad for the world of sim racing, and is just a test of perseverance and gamer quackery talent. It's just teaching beginners how to be failures at sim racing.

It doesn’t matter though, their all doing it in the same/equal cars, that’s all I care. I don’t care how realistic it is, it’s a game made to have fun with, not real racing and not a dedicated pay for play hardcore sim.

 

[mirial]

It doesn’t matter though, their all doing it in the same/equal cars, that’s all I care. I don’t care how realistic it is, it’s a game made to have fun with, not real racing and not a dedicated pay for play hardcore sim.

Well, nothing adds up as the current state just cancels out all the hard work they have done. They might as well have saved themselves thousands of man hours and millions of yen and just stuck with the GT6 physics. BTW, I think many of you would be enlightened if you got used to finer handling cars better setup and would get to discover yourselves. A bit like going to a bad school and not knowing any different and then going to a very good one and not looking back.

 

[Pigems]

Well, nothing adds up as the current state just cancels out all the hard work they have done. They might as well have saved themselves thousands of man hours and millions of yen and just stuck with the GT6 physics. BTW, I think many of you would be enlightened if you got used to finer handling cars better setup and would get to discover yourselves. A bit like going to a bad school and not knowing any different and then going to a very good one and not looking back.

I know how to tune the cars and have driven cars by the highly rated tuners here, it amounts to making them easier to drive, harder to setup and the times don’t change all THAT much. It would just make for way to many moving parts for PD to try to keep track of to bring that online.

Tuning is fun, I don’t disagree, but competitive online racing just isn’t the place for it is all. There aren’t even enough people who even know what the car parts are anymore to actually have performance parts still in the game, how are these people ever gonna tune a car if they don’t even know what the parts are, or what they do?

 

[mirial]

I know how to tune the cars and have driven cars by the highly rated tuners here, it amounts to making them easier to drive, harder to setup and the times don’t change all THAT much. It would just make for way to many moving parts to try to for PD to keep track of to bring that online.

Tuning is fun, I don’t disagree, but competitive online racing just isn’t the place for it is all. There aren’t even enough people who even know what the car parts are anymore to have actually performance parts still in the game, how are these people ever gonna tune a car if they don’t even know what the parts are, or what they do?

Again, it's like education where the trick is to make something complex, easy to understand and interesting which sparks further curiosity. The problem is that settings have been completely barred so zero interest is sparked because you know none of your competition is doing anything interesting that might be giving them an advantage.

I think it's possible for a video or other instructions to be made that would explain in very simple terms what a player needs to do to adjust a car, but provided they have good feel for what all four tyres are doing on all corners of the track. If they can do that, then they can certainly go forwards with good instruction without understanding the mechanical science behind it.

 

[Slo_Wass_Mike]

I would love to see several championships going on at once.

Gr 1
Gr 3
Gr 4
Gr B
One Make Series that can rotate class and cars each series cycle or season. This allows PD to open up every car for racing in a competitive environment.

Ultimately I would like to see these run on different days. This would allow Nations and Manufacturer's series to continue to run. I would like to see no tuning in these as this gives allows for a very common feel to the currently running series. I enjoy tuning cars I just have a difficult time opening up tuning in competitions. Maybe open up one of the series above to tuning and see what the participation difference is versus the non-tunable series and how that affects competition.

 

[LaSupra]

It is something that popped into my head when the Clio V6 finally dropped, and something I think PD missed the mark on: for a game whose main focus is online and e-sports racing, why isn't there more variety in the online events available? I know we have the randomness of the Nations, Manufacturers and "daily" events, and there's the GT League to fill some kind of void (or create one at this point) but surely that isn't enough?

We need more one-make races as seperate running events, like the Supra Cup but as casual as the "dailies", like a Clio Trophy, MX5 Cup, 911 Cup or a TT Cup etc. Fan-favourite club racers that people can learn and master as they spend more time with the cars. I realise that it's not too far off what iRacing does but hell, why not? It works for them

I'd say keep the Nations and Manufacturers Cups, as they've both been well established by now, but also introduce these grassroots style one-make race events and other events to spruce the online play up.

 

[dabz343]

for a game whose main focus is online and e-sports racing, why isn't there more variety in the online events available? I know we have the randomness of the Nations, Manufacturers and "daily" events, and there's the GT League to fill some kind of void (or create one at this point) but surely that isn't enough?

Exactly. While some get bogged down and sidetracked in these conversations with tuning/no tuning or not enough cars in certain Gr categories, the real question about GTS is exactly what you stated--where is the variety?

With the recent admission from Kaz that the penalty system is inadequate, one plausible reason is that PD is not ready to scale. And by delaying the launch of additional racing events, fans that wanted to participate in a serious online racing platform are leaving and those that remain may just as well be happy with more offline/GT6 content.

Shame really, I think Kaz had a brilliant idea with GTS...

 

[KepleroGT]

You can count me out of anything that involves tuning, I want to race people in the same car set up the same way, not race their tunes.

Do you want to race the meta car or on equal ground? If you don't want to make a basic setup, or don't know how to make one, it shouldn't go to my detriment because the default setup on my car is worse than yours.

it amounts to making them easier to drive, harder to setup and the times don’t change all THAT much.

I race in a league, and you can't understand how much more enjoyable the races are. With my setup I can drive the cars the way I want, I feel more comfortable and I score faster laptimes and I am more consistent. Sometimes the times can be as far as 2-3 seconds faster. If you think that isn't much, that's the difference between me and the aliens. And I'm a fairly high DR driver.

 

[Pigems]

Do you want to race the meta car or on equal ground? If you don't want to make a basic setup, or don't know how to make one, it shouldn't go to my detriment because the default setup on my car is worse than yours.


I race in a league, and you can't understand how much more enjoyable the races are. With my setup I can drive the cars the way I want, I feel more comfortable and I score faster laptimes and I am more consistent. Sometimes the times can be as far as 2-3 seconds faster. If you think that isn't much, that's the difference between me and the aliens. And I'm a fairly high DR driver.

I can tune a car just fine and have tested many tunes. I don’t really care what I race in as long everyone is in an equal car. Each track always has a Meta when there are multiple car options, that’s just how it goes. People get way to hung up on the meta thing. Do you also drive you nails with a screwdriver because everyone else uses a hammer? I mean, it’s the meta right? Can’t use that.

That’s where you fail to see the point, it’s not about making it better/easier for “YOU”, it’s about making it an equal platform for “EVERYONE” as best as possible. Our default setups would be the same, you would just be less adept at using it. Go race in GT League or Lobbies if you want easier drives.

It is something that popped into my head when the Clio V6 finally dropped, and something I think PD missed the mark on: for a game whose main focus is online and e-sports racing, why isn't there more variety in the online events available? I know we have the randomness of the Nations, Manufacturers and "daily" events, and there's the GT League to fill some kind of void (or create one at this point) but surely that isn't enough?

We need more one-make races as seperate running events, like the Supra Cup but as casual as the "dailies", like a Clio Trophy, MX5 Cup, 911 Cup or a TT Cup etc. Fan-favourite club racers that people can learn and master as they spend more time with the cars. I realise that it's not too far off what iRacing does but hell, why not? It works for them

I'd say keep the Nations and Manufacturers Cups, as they've both been well established by now, but also introduce these grassroots style one-make race events and other events to spruce the online play up.

There isn’t enough players online at off peak times to make more races work right now. There would be dead lobbies all over the place if we had 10 different races per week even.

We already get huge DR/SR spreads now with only 3 daily races during off peak times.

 

[dabz343]

There isn’t enough players online at off peak times to make more races work right now. There would be dead lobbies all over the place if we had 10 different races per week even.

We already get huge DR/SR spreads now with only 3 daily races during off peak times.

To be fair, that may be the current participation stats, but by adding a variety of options throughout the week, more players may decide to participate. Conversely, one could make a justifiable assertion that the reason for the current rate of participation is a direct result of GTS' limited offering...

I say why not give it a try? Is there really a legitimate reason to oppose test driving the concept of adding more races?

 

[Kwame]

To be fair, that may be the current participation stats, but by adding a variety of options throughout the week, more players may decide to participate. Conversely, one could make a justifiable assertion that the reason for the current rate of participation is a direct result of GTS' limited offering...

I say why not give it a try? Is there really a legitimate reason to oppose test driving the concept of adding more races?

Chicken and egg question. Your thought is that "If you build it, they will come". I think it is worth a try. however, I have my doubts. I think that the participation rates are a result of the game being almost two years old and settling on its core user base with a few people peeking in and and out periodically. Maybe I'm wrong though and they are all in lobbies while they wait for PD to fix the daily races.

 

[dabz343]

Who knows exactly what the reasons are for poor participation, but if you build it--there is at least a chance that they will come.

Sometimes, changing what's on the menu is the only way to entice new customers...if you are interested in improving your balance sheet.

Btw, I think potential new Sport players will come from other games, not from lobbies alone. If word gets out that GTS has multiple championships--with a proper penalty system--some may even switch consoles...point is, participation could come from new sources.

 

[monkeywall]

its core user base

Some us have given up on GTSport

 

[Lazybike]

I haven't done any FIA or Supra Cup since the last major physics change..FIA just seems a bit of a chore, although the settings have got a bit better, the Supra cup just got dull for me, the fuel/tyre settings just ruin it. If you're going to do any N class then it has to be one make, 25-30 minute races, x3 fuel and tyres Talking of participation..there seems to be a lot less lobbies lately.

 

[gtpierre]

It is something that popped into my head when the Clio V6 finally dropped, and something I think PD missed the mark on: for a game whose main focus is online and e-sports racing, why isn't there more variety in the online events available? I know we have the randomness of the Nations, Manufacturers and "daily" events, and there's the GT League to fill some kind of void (or create one at this point) but surely that isn't enough?

We need more one-make races as seperate running events, like the Supra Cup but as casual as the "dailies", like a Clio Trophy, MX5 Cup, 911 Cup or a TT Cup etc. Fan-favourite club racers that people can learn and master as they spend more time with the cars. I realise that it's not too far off what iRacing does but hell, why not? It works for them

I'd say keep the Nations and Manufacturers Cups, as they've both been well established by now, but also introduce these grassroots style one-make race events and other events to spruce the online play up.

This is exactly what I want and hoped for.
I always wonder why instead of the stupid daily race that aren't daily we don't have FIA races + separate event changing every few months with a new track every week.

On monday we could have the choice between a gt40 cup and a clio cup for one month with a different track every day. On Tuesday the mustang cup and the nsx cup(etc).
It could be made so that every day uses a different track.

People could make their liveries when they own the car, race at their level and racing against the same car means the monthly BoP change would affect only part of the races.

And why not add one category "with tuning" where you allow people to make the car drive the way they want.

And more importantly we would get to actually race on all the tracks with different cars.

 

[Majorwolf72]

Most of the top guys wouldn’t do open as they spend enough time perfecting their racing on the fixed setups as they are. If they had to find and refine a setup on top of that most would just skip altogether and go elsewhere. The easy access is a major pro of the current system.

Look at iracing, there is a whole industry living off people‘s reluctance or inability to doing their own setups. Pretty sure the top guys wouldn’t join the majority that would likewise purchase setups at GT if FIA were (part) open.

 

[breeminator]

I voted no, because I like there being a single definitive points competition leaderboard. With separate competitions per group, most people would not be able to properly compete in every group, so they'd all be weak competitions, and the game already has enough of a problem as it is with only a very small proportion of the player base seriously taking part in Nations Cup.