Poll to change track limits system

[mattikake]

Time for a poll.

Had my first public lobby race in about 2 weeks with TL on. Wow. I've got so used to league racing with track limits off I had forgotten how horrible the current system is. I've seen a few leagues now that run with TL off, which says it all. You never got that in PC1.

I was trying a car I had almost no experience in with 15 mins quali to learn it and find a setup...

In the race I made a mistake at turn 4, ran a bit wide putting a wheel on the grass, lost some time, then got a penalty for "gaining and advantage". Then whilst slowing down for the penalty, someone barged me onto the grass, I lost more time, then got another penalty for "gaining an advantage". Whilst fighting to get back on the track and slowing down for the penalty, I got another penalty for fishtailing around entering and leaving the track again... Now at the back I lost interest. What a gobsmacklingly pants experience that was. To cap it all my licence rating went up from a C to a B for being such a naughty boy.

lol

It needs redoing completely because it's too simplistic, strict and dare I say... brainless. The old PC1 track limits were better because at least you could actually ride some kerbs and could even lose some time by a small mistake but not get further penalised for it.

There are better systems to employ.

1) Use the previous lap/best lap HUD system to work out if you actually gained an advantage in that section compared to the previous lap, to decide to invoke a penalty. This is not a major change because the data for this already exists. For the first lap of a session full TL could be on to avoid anyone taking a massive cut in the first place.

2) More like real life - first 2 or 3 off track "cheats" get noted by the RD with a message to say so, any more and you get a warning not to go off again at the same point of the track. Any more and it's an immediate 5 sec penalty.

3) Only have TL's checked at points on a track where cutting gains an advantage like at chicanes, but have it off on straight sections where running on grass/gravel/into a wall is a disadvantage anyway. Use a zone map system that gets instant big penalty if running way way off the track, e.g. like cutting entire sections between turns 11 and 13 at Indy road course (seen it online before)

4) Have lobby options that allow you to turn TL from off to authentic (like system #2) to strict (as PC2 current) to harsh (like PC1) etc.

Should anyone think running with TL off makes for bad racing, we do it at 10tenths and it produces racing like this (particularly the fight for 2nd from lap 7 where a couple of minor misdemeanours would've resulted in a slow down or time penalty that would've ruined the entire battle):-
(14:00mins onwards)

Anyone able to offer better ideas?

 

[killerjimbag]

Time for a poll.

Had my first public lobby race in about 2 weeks with TL on. Wow. I've got so used to league racing with track limits off I had forgotten how horrible the current system is. I've seen a few leagues now that run with TL off, which says it all. You never got that in PC1.

I was trying a car I had almost no experience in with 15 mins quali to learn it and find a setup...

In the race I made a mistake at turn 4, ran a bit wide putting a wheel on the grass, lost some time, then got a penalty for "gaining and advantage". Then whilst slowing down for the penalty, someone barged me onto the grass, I lost more time, then got another penalty for "gaining an advantage". Whilst fighting to get back on the track and slowing down for the penalty, I got another penalty for fishtailing around entering and leaving the track again... Now at the back I lost interest. What a gobsmacklingly pants experience that was. To cap it all my licence rating went up from a C to a B for being such a naughty boy.

lol

It needs redoing completely because it's too simplistic, strict and dare I say... brainless. The old PC1 track limits were better because at least you could actually ride some kerbs and could even lose some time by a small mistake but not get further penalised for it.

There are better systems to employ.

1) Use the previous lap/best lap HUD system to work out if you actually gained an advantage in that section compared to the previous lap, to decide to invoke a penalty. This is not a major change because the data for this already exists. For the first lap of a session full TL could be on to avoid anyone taking a massive cut in the first place.

2) More like real life - first 2 or 3 off track "cheats" get noted by the RD with a message to say so, any more and you get a warning not to go off again at the same point of the track. Any more and it's an immediate 5 sec penalty.

3) Only have TL's checked at points on a track where cutting gains an advantage like at chicanes, but have it off on straight sections where running on grass/gravel/into a wall is a disadvantage anyway. Use a zone map system that gets instant big penalty if running way way off the track, e.g. like cutting entire sections between turns 11 and 13 at Indy road course (seen it online before)

4) Have lobby options that allow you to turn TL from off to authentic (like system #2) to strict (as PC2 current) to harsh (like PC1) etc.

Should anyone think running with TL off makes for bad racing, we do it at 10tenths and it produces racing like this (particularly the fight for 2nd from lap 7 where a couple of minor misdemeanours would've resulted in a slow down or time penalty that would've ruined the entire battle):-
(14:00mins onwards)

Anyone able to offer better ideas?

I have a great idea. Drive with track limits on. 2 or 3 off track "cheats"! Cheats,yeah great idea, 2 or 3 here 2 or 3 there. Perhaps it is your non use of "track limits on" that's making you a bad driver? Play the game within the perimeters as set out or go play without them.

 

[mattikake]

I have a great idea. Drive with track limits on. 2 or 3 off track "cheats"! Cheats,yeah great idea, 2 or 3 here 2 or 3 there. Perhaps it is your non use of "track limits on" that's making you a bad driver? Play the game within the perimeters as set out or go play without them.

Oh I need to git gud, not to ask for a more realistic experience from a sim. IME bad drivers generally don't have their own trophy cabinet... actually it's just a shelf now given some have disappeared over the years of mum spring cleaning the house. Should've got my own place sooner I guess!

I play without them mostly because that's how it's set, fair racers don't cheat and I've earned the right not to need them. The number of leagues that run without TL on was unheard of in PC1. To me that says it all.

In that vid I actually counted at about 8 times where TL would've probably destroyed that battle instantly for either driver. How would that constitute "fun"? Instead it went on for half the race. I want fun out of a game like I've had fun racing for real [although with real humans monitoring track limits].

 

[killerjimbag]

Oh I need to git gud, not to ask for a more realistic experience from a sim. IME bad drivers generally don't have their own trophy cabinet... actually it's just a shelf now given some have disappeared over the years of mum spring cleaning the house. Should've got my own place sooner I guess!

I play without them mostly because that's how it's set, fair racers don't cheat and I've earned the right not to need them. The number of leagues that run without TL on was unheard of in PC1. To me that says it all.

In that vid I actually counted at about 8 times where TL would've probably destroyed that battle instantly for either driver. How would that constitute "fun"? Instead it went on for half the race. I want fun out of a game like I've had fun racing for real [although with real humans monitoring track limits].

Perhaps you should go hug a trophy and get back to "real" racing. This isn't real it's a video game with someone, the devs, whom you have a known disdain for,that implemented a penalty system you also don't like. Surprise! Now perhaps you can go play the game the way you want. The Devs give you that option. Learn to stay on the track and you won't get a penalty. What a concept! Actually when I look back at your poll 2 and 4 are no/Yes with the same thing. Go back to Pcars 1 limits? Great poll!

 

[David Brooks]

Actually, one improvement I would like to see is the penalty advice box to be more abrupt when it appears and disappears rather than fading out. So i know a bit clearer that I have satisfied the penalty.

 

[Sentry87]

Strict track limits develops better drivers. However the system itself should be reworked i.e. unfair scenarios giving positions back.

 

[sgohsixthree]

I don't have a problem with the track limits. My real problem with track penalties is the "Return to Position" penalty. When someone spins in front of you on their own, you pass them, and then are told to wait for them, something is wrong.

"Return to Position" penalties should have an on/off toggle like track limits. I also wouldn't object to additional track limit settings of something like Off, Lean or Aggressive.

 

[diesel97]

If you really wanted to change something you wouldn't be posting a poll here, you would be posting in the official forums. Unless you already burned that bridge

 

[DesertPenguin]

Pretty sure he has...

 

[gladbecker82]

The ridiculous track limits at Algarve cost me a win.

And I don't even have an issue with penalties, but I lost time leaving the track, get a warning, brake for 3 seconds, the warning is still there for like 10! seconds, I accelerate and get a drive through. This is complete nonsense.

Make it clear how much I have to slow down for a penalty to expire. Or make it like F1 Games, 3 mistakes = 3 second penalty

 

[jod08]

The track limits system is stupid and inconsistent. I always turn them off when I race and find the game more enjoyable that way. Not having worrying about clipping a curb or a white line to be given a slowdown warning is priceless

For instance @ Nurburgring GP you can almost straight line the chicane and get away with it. But yet run wide on the exit of turn 4, 5 or the hairpin with one wheel and you get a slowdown warning?

Make a mistake in the last sector of any track even 3 corners before the start straight “This and next lap invalid” WTF?

Cross the line with 20 seconds left in quali and the countdown timer completely covers/hides the slowdown penalty warning box!

8 out 10 public lobby’s I join with track limits on normally has 3 -5 max times posted with an avg 5-8 players that don’t set a time yet do 8+ laps.

Give the position back is a joke, The amount of times you see people reversing across/back onto the track with no care for anyone else. Forcing you off or even to the edge of the track to avoid a collision and then you have to park up and wait for them to come back past you.

The system is excellent in theory but the implementation does not work it is not intelligent enough imo. This is getting a lot of mixed views and I’m wondering if it’s the same system on all platforms.

 

[BrandonW77]

To cap it all my licence rating went up from a C to a B for being such a naughty boy.

Pretty sure your rating would go down to a D if you did poorly, not up.

 

[CB_racer]

Track limits is the same for everyone therefore that is no advantage or disadvantage and should stay the same. Off-track penalties need work when you go off track but do not gain any time but still is penalized.

 

[David Brooks]

Actually, one improvement I would like to see is the penalty advice box to be more abrupt when it appears and disappears rather than fading out. So i know a bit clearer that I have satisfied the penalty.

Or even better, have some sort of progress meter that shows you have slowed down sufficiently

 

[mattikake]

Pretty sure your rating would go down to a D if you did poorly, not up.

You'd think that but it didn't!

 

[BrandonW77]

You'd think that but it didn't!

Nothing to complain about then, do more races like that and you'll be an A in no time.

 

[jake2013guy]

The system is fine if you know what to do. If you lift when off track, your penalty will be far less than those who don't and the earlier you serve the penalty associated with it, the less you have to serve as well.

However, it could be a little less strict in some detection areas though.

 

[DesertPenguin]

And a countdown timer showing how long you have to slow down for. One thing GTSport does right.

 

[axeMaltesse]

The track limits are perfectly fine. As long as you are driving between the lines and using 2 tires <50% off the track. Tested it, adapted and I am doing better times as well. So?

 

[ThaFlash_LA]

Except sometimes even a portion of 1 tire off the track will get you a penalty. And sometimes getting on the curbs will get you a penalty

 

[micmansour]

And a countdown timer showing how long you have to slow down for. One thing GTSport does right.

And needs to show you what speed you need to slow to. Sometimes I only need to slow to 100km/h and the message disappears, other times 80, other times 70, other times 65. Shambolic!

 

[mattikake]

At the time of writing this it looks like over two thirds of people want a change to the system, so far.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Do you feel justified in your whining now?

 

[killerjimbag]

At the time of writing this it looks like over two thirds of people want a change to the system, so far.

Your running a screwed up poll. You cannot have a no answer and a yes answer with the same result! Nice try though. Here is an idea again. Learn to drive within the limits of the game penalty system. If you can't then turn the penalties off then. You already said you have "earned the right" whatever the hell that means is beyond me.👎

 

[mattikake]

The 4 answers are not the same. If you can't understand them that's your issue. No-one else seems to be struggling.

I have learned to drive with TL's thanks but it's the odd little mistake that everyone makes from time to time doesn't need to get doubly penalised. This doesn't happen in real life. If pc2 wants to "simulate" real life, then simulate it. It's obvious not as much thought has been put into this as could've been. But then we all know this was rushed to the shelves... which also means it can be changed with future patches. All you have to do is voice an opinion.

Yours is different to mine. Deal with it.

 

[killerjimbag]

#2 and #4 are the same. Never did I say all 4 were the same! Don't put words I never said on here! It's painfully obvious nothing this game does is good for you. You can have your polls,your petitions and your trophies. If the game is so rushed and so bad why the 🤬 do you play it? If it's attention you want go to the official Pcars Forum and spare us the 🤬. I'm sure Ian and the group are probably tired of your 1 man crusade and booted your sorry arse off their forum. Now you have a great day and keep your car between the lines. The funny thing is you have a person voting who doesn't have the game or a system to play it. Now this is a great poll.

 

[TommySalami]

The track limits are fine but the system needs to show a countdown timer. Also it needs to be proportional to how much time you gained by cutting the track. A small track cut that gains you 0.1 seconds shouldn't force you to lift for 3 seconds

 

[ThaFlash_LA]

I don't necessarily care. I kind of like the lack of a counter and speed that you need to slow down to, but the annoyance makes sense. I'd like a "no more than 2 wheels inside the track limits (+curb)", but as it is each track has its own quirky limits which I'm ok with as well. But I don't care what my place is at the end of a race.

 

[Dicra]

The system is fine if you know what to do. If you lift when off track, your penalty will be far less than those who don't and the earlier you serve the penalty associated with it, the less you have to serve as well.

No it's not "fine", and don't let the devs think for one SECOND that it's anywhere near "fine". This is not a matter of opinion - the penalty system is objectively awful, it's just a matter of opinion how much this disturbs you.

The penalty system as it's right now penalises you harshly even if you've already lost time, is inconsistent, forces you to give positions back even when that doesn't make any sense, the time penalties are all over the place (sometimes you get five seconds, sometimes SIXTEEN out of nowhere), it's far harsher than anything we ever saw in real life (which is an issue because SMS want to deliver a sim, not some fantasy game AND because they're expecting more from their gamers than anyone would dare to expect from real race drivers), it prevents you from looking for the limit because one slowdown penalty can RUIN a race, prevents you from leaving space to other cars for the same reason, in short: It prevents you from racing.

It's as far from fine as anyone could possibly imagine, this is an incredible mess that diminishes the experience of the game significantly should you dare to turn it on.

The cutting system as it is now is EASILY the worst thing about Project CARS 2 (and I have raced the AI, so that's not a statement to be taken lightly, because the AI is a catastrophe as well).

The worst thing about it is that I actually enjoy Project CARS 2. For me it's about the best package I could have wished for - but the cutting system is on DRUGS, simple as that.

And no, just because you can do some bull**** to make the bull**** a slight bit less bull****ty, it doesn't get any better.

EDIT: Also, the fact that being rewarded for slowing down earlier is a thing completely undermines having a cutting system where the player can decide when to slow down. It's just not thought through at all.

 

[killerjimbag]

No it's not "fine", and don't let the devs think for one SECOND that it's anywhere near "fine". This is not a matter of opinion - the penalty system is objectively awful, it's just a matter of opinion how much this disturbs you.

The penalty system as it's right now penalises you harshly even if you've already lost time, is inconsistent, forces you to give positions back even when that doesn't make any sense, the time penalties are all over the place (sometimes you get five seconds, sometimes SIXTEEN out of nowhere), it's far harsher than anything we ever saw in real life (which is an issue because SMS want to deliver a sim, not some fantasy game AND because they're expecting more from their gamers than anyone would dare to expect from real race drivers), it prevents you from looking for the limit because one slowdown penalty can RUIN a race, prevents you from leaving space to other cars for the same reason, in short: It prevents you from racing.

It's as far from fine as anyone could possibly imagine, this is an incredible mess that diminishes the experience of the game significantly should you dare to turn it on.

The cutting system as it is now is EASILY the worst thing about Project CARS 2 (and I have raced the AI, so that's not a statement to be taken lightly, because the AI is a catastrophe as well).

The worst thing about it is that I actually enjoy Project CARS 2. For me it's about the best package I could have wished for - but the cutting system is on DRUGS, simple as that.

And no, just because you can do some bull**** to make the bull**** a slight bit less bull****ty, it doesn't get any better.

EDIT: Also, the fact that being rewarded for slowing down earlier is a thing completely undermines having a cutting system where the player can decide when to slow down. It's just not thought through at all.

Learn to drive between the lines perhaps ? You blame the devs because you or anyone else can't drive between the said parameters? Yeah it's SMS's fault. Right !