Polyphony isn't just adding useless cars: They're learning

[sonnyboychris]

I don't buy this. I'd buy it from keeping them out of games completely, but I don't think only PD would balk when every other sim has healthy numbers of new GT3s and LMDhs. Especially since we know from the GR010 that PD are fine not implementing all the complications around hybrid systems if they can't or don't need to.

I didn't say that my suggestion was the correct answer, just that it was potentially a contributing factor.

I think we have to factor in PD's unique attention to detail with modeling. It may be a lot more expensive for them to model these vehicles compared to other developers. Additionally, I can understand NOT wanting to model the cars based off of inaccurate dimensions and having to go back and spend more man-hours/money to correct them later. That sucks for us but it makes sense for them.

 

[05XR8]

PD may be learning, but many that play GT need to learn PDLogic™️. PD just do stuffs. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Ande3200]

This is an excellent analysis. I don't know how true it actually is, given that there can't be any sources validated by PD, but I'm quite intrigued. As for the fact that they're using the LATEST GT updates to test it, no, because in my opinion, GT7 still has at least a few years left in it with this frequency of updates. But they are indeed bringing us innovations in terms of actual mechanics and technology, and it's also true that they've been paying particular attention to it lately. But what's the purpose? What could be the purpose for GT to have the ability to include so many different cars without these mechanics being exploited. You can even include the Qashqai with the fuel economy system... but if you don't give me a challenge where I can actually test it, it makes no sense.
Good point though.

I dont see gt7 getting more than 1 year of updates tops. And dont see any more major updates coming either, just more of those small updates. I would not be supriced if gt7 wont get any more new tracks going forward. Its been a full year since the last track.

Gt7 is almost 3,5 years old now. Its not unreasonable to expect that the focus has already been shifted more to the next gt title.

 

[IngWeltschmer]

(The scenarios below are hypothetical, but this is likely how the last two updates happened)

Odds are that it started with Stellantis asking for the 2008 first, and then giving the team a list of cars that they could add with a low cost, [...] Lancia Delta rally car because it's so heavily based on the Lancia Delta that's already in game.

[...] Sony HQ gives them the go ahead because it's a modification of the R34, which is already in game, so it's less time to make it. The would speak with Nissan about the rights to add the car and Nissan could say "hey, I will give you the license for nothing, and PAY YOU, if you add the Qashkai. So, PD makes the Qashkai and they get approved to add the Z-tune. The N ONE was likely agreed to when they agreed to add the CR V

Just two corrections/observations:
1) The Delta featured in the game was apparently scanned 12 years ago in Turin, although the car in pic has dirt rims and not tarmac rims (https://www.gamesoul.it/gran-turismo-6-polyphony-digital-avvistato-alla-l-m-gianetti-di-torino/). Anyway, the TO76571S rally car is currently not owned by FIAT, so the deal you're invoking is not exactly as you said. Could be that they greenlighted the inclusion, but I'm quite certain they didn't offer PD the possibility to scan the car, since it's not owned by them currently, but by a private collector (not sure if it's L.M. Gianetti or not. On a side note, I dream for the day Kaz discovers Fondazione Gino Macaluso and its stash. Dream cars, well he visited Piedmont this autumn and enjoyed bagna caoda in the fog of Novara, so who knows!)

2) According to several posts on the thread discussing 1.61 release, the Nismo Z-Tune is an entirely new modeling and has nothing to do with the previous R34 scans, so this reasoning about it being a easy to make car is not valid imho.

Definitely agree with you on the marketing side though. However, my dream is that one day manufacturers will launch a set of driving missions in the game where you start with the model they want to advertise and as a reward get some vehicles from their history and so on. I had gone an entire daydream post on this topic and don't want to go too OT again, but it would solve lots of problems in one, included the question "why should I ever drive a Qashqai in game?"

 

[Mafio]

PD may be learning, but many that play GT need to learn PDLogic™️. PD just do stuffs. 🤷‍♂️

Or someone needs to make a dedicated Touring Car game. They keep trying to make GT THAT game when it isn't.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Or someone needs to make a dedicated Touring Car game. They keep trying to make GT THAT game when it isn't.

Nobody would buy it. There’s a GT3-specific game on PS5 in ACC that no one plays. Forza was DOA. Theres a rally-specific game in WRC that no one plays.

Not only does Gran Turismo have the biggest Franchise and name recognition in the entire genre, its able to successfully thread the needle of doing everything pretty well, while not doing anything really that poorly….maybe rally.

Sure, there are plenty of legitimate gripes in regards to the aspects that Gran Turismo 7 came up short on. But because they’re the only real show in town, and they absolutely knock the ball out of the park in so many aspects, the vast majority of their fan base will be more than happy to fork over another hundo whenever GT8 gets released. I know I will. By and large, I think it’s us fans that have placed unrealistic expectations on Polyphony. Objectively speaking, GT7 is the most consequential entry in the entire franchise

 

[heftyscent]

I want to address probably the most controversial topic and that is still talked about daily: The cars that Gran Turismo is adding to the roster.

It's well known that there is a debate between "They should add racing cars" and "Daily cars are what Gran Turismo is all about" and I don't wanna profundize on that. I wanna theorize:

I think Gran Turismo is experimenting with their car construction mechanical wise.

What I mean by that? In previous Gran Turismo games (and in the older automotive industry), was all about petrol cars (with some exceptions ofc). "Normal", petrol, manual or automatic transmissions but with "normal" gears and whatsoever. However, lately, the industry has changed: we have more types of drivetrains, software systems and engines in cars. These types of cars aren't classic to GT, so, Polyphony doesn't have the know-how for these, compared to all the years they have been improving and learning about classic gearbox engines.

So they're learning. They're trying. They're using the final stages of GT7 to try whatever they're coming up with.

I'm gonna adress the latest updates to let know what I meant:

Update 1.61: In the last update they added the Nissan Qashqai Tekna 190 2wd e-Power '22. This car is the first of the Gran Turismo Saga to be electric and use a petrol engine to increase the range (REEV). This is something "new" to the industry, being the first mass production car with this technology the Chevrolet Volt (2010) (that's what I found online).

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Update 1.60: In the previous one they didn't add a car that could be defined as "new", but they add a change that wasn't requested nor necessary: they "fixed" the Nissan GT-R LM NISMO '15' hybrid system. Why would they work on that if it weren't because they're testing their mechanical models? I think that's the biggest clue to suspect they're working on this.

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Update 1.59: Again, they added a controversial and "useless" car (no event) with an interesting drivetrain system: the Honda CR-V e:HEV EX・Black Edition '21. This car uses Honda’s e‑CVT (intelligent fixed‑gear electrical CVT) that uses the electric motor at low speed and the petrol one at the "high" ones. The first car to use this was indeed the Toyota Prius (already in the game), but what if they are learning about the implementation in a 4WD context?

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Update 1.57: They fixed the "vehicle height adjustment range of suspension" of the Mercedes-Benz Unimog Type 411 '62. I'll explain that below:

Update 1.56: They added the Mercedes-Benz Unimog Type 411 '62, an unexpected car that has an interesting and curious quirk: Portal Axles. For those who didn't know (that includes me), some trucks use these axles to manage off-road or other situations where height matters. This should be the first GT car to have this characteristic. Also, with the fix of 1.57 we can theorize about PD caring about the results of their "experiment" with this system.

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Update 1.55: They added the Hyundai IONIQ 5 N '24 and the Toyota C-HR S '18, but I want to focus on the other improvements they announced:

　- The performance of the following cars has been adjusted:
　　・Toyota Aqua S '11
　　・Toyota Prius G '09

Could this mean they're actively working on the hybrid systems and their performance? This makes sense considering both use Toyota’s HSD system, which is an e-CVT similar to that in the Honda CR-V.

Finally, i want to address the Xiaomi x Gran Turismo partnership. They have made very clear the slogan of this: "Exploring the vast potentials of EVs together". That clearly means they're interested in understanding the engineering behind these vehicles, and could mean they want to improve the mechanical models of the Electric Vehicles in the game.

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That is my theory: They're facing a change in the automotive industry and they're trying to keep up with, using part of their game (because they add more things) to test and adapt.

Sorry for the grammar mistakes, not a native english speaker. I want to see ur opinions and maybe notice something I did not / correct me if necessary.

This is really interesting and well-written, great stuff! Never really thought about the fact that th devs need to practice and learn with the industry.

 

[F30clubman]

Update 1.60: In the previous one they didn't add a car that could be defined as "new", but they add a change that wasn't requested nor necessary: they "fixed" the Nissan GT-R LM NISMO '15' hybrid system.

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I believe you're the only one so far that mentioned this change. In GT7, the car is now described as a 4WD car. While in the showroom, it's called a FWD car. On the internet the car is described everywhere as a FWD, but I remember someone on this forum writing that it was planned to be a 4WD with the electric power sent to the rear wheels. But as the project got cancelled at the end of the 2015 season, this evolution was never realised.

So it looks like PD replaced the original FWD Le Mans contender by the planned 4WD evolution in update 1.60? Quite an important update imo! Would have been interesting to have them both to compare.